Are You Avoiding Cold Calls Or Avoiding Growth

We pressure test cold calling with Kenslee from Platinum and land on a simple truth: it works when the list is clean, the script is tight, and the follow-up system runs in the background. We share real numbers from a 1,000-dial month, plus how we balance cold outreach with retention, referrals, and mindset so growth actually sticks. 

• why cold calling still belongs in a property management BDM toolkit 
• building a qualified landlord call list using RP Data and ID4me 
• handling “Where did you get my number from?” without losing confidence 
• using offshore VAs for data scraping, admin support, and follow-up tasks 
• defining a lead as “yes, send me info” and logging everything into a CRM nurture campaign 
• what 950 to 1,000 calls can produce in leads and new managements 
• realistic ramp-up timelines for new BDMs and new territories 
• relationship manager vs BDM and when an SDR or appointment setter makes sense 
• calling existing clients, investor audits, and why phone beats long emails 
• churn rate as the hidden metric that decides whether growth matters 

If you are thinking that you wanna do cold calling and maybe your numbers aren't there and you need to do something- then reach out to Kenslee, who can help you with how she developed her script

Detector Inspector | Safer Homes

This podcast is kindly sponsored by The Associates Co. 

The Associates Co provides fully trained professionals to assist you with scaling your property management department. They are ready to hit the ground running! Once a luxury, VA's are now a staple in every business, whether you are managing 5 properties or 500+

Head over to www.theassociatesco.com

Transcript

Copy

Why Cold Calling Still Matters

0:00

so welcome to today's episode, which I have been very excited to do because it's on cold calling. And I have got Kensley from Platinum joining me today, so welcome, Kensley. Thanks, guys. Now I have got lots of juicy questions. Yes. I know you're up for it and I also just wanna disclaim that I am absolutely just playing devil's advocate as well. Yeah. What I, questions I ask are not that I actually generally think it. It's just more throwing the questions out there that people might have. And yeah it's not me having an opinion to say cold calling's shit either. Yeah. I- but it's just it- I think where I struggle for me, it's because cold calling isn't something that I enjoy doing. No. So therefore, I don't do it. Could I benefit from doing it? Maybe. Maybe. Do I wanna have a happy life? Yes. Yes. Yes. You know what I mean? Exactly. If a- and am I hungry enough? No. No. That's my problem. Yeah. So if I was really hungry- for new managements, and I was on $20,000 a year, and the only way- I was going to make money was by cold calling, would I do it? Sure, you would, yeah. But like- But I'm not. You're not. Yeah, I know. The whole idea of the cold calling challenge just came off a funny reel that E- Ella had sent me, and it was, like, it was very Americanized, but it was basically off the synopsis, you're only 2,000 cold calls away from your first million dollars. Obviously very Americanized, and there's gonna be a long way behind it but, you knowing my story and my backend story is that, I'm done business development management now for four or five years, but my network is all other real estate agents, so I can't go and call other real estate agents for their managements. And in our office we've obviously got Hailey that's in our office, and she's a gun BDM, like, 'cause she's doing consistently 50 new managements a month. But she's been in that role for five years now, and she- Yeah definitely did some cold calling to begin with now. But because she's got her referral network and she's well known enough, she's not having to do the hard yards. So the way I would see cold calling is always still important, but for me initially coming back into the industry after being off for so long and not really having a name for myself among customers, I feel like that the cold calling is definitely required in the initial grunt work of a good BDM. Then that's the question I was just gonna ask. Yeah. Is it something that long-term BDMs should be doing, or is it, yeah, just to start the fire? Yeah. Definitely to start the fire, and then I think that once you've got to that level, cold calling is still important for any type of BDM. I think- It's a really impo- important part of any toolkit, basically. You obviously work really well on relationships, natural leads, and those are real easy things to win. But I think that if you're not at least dedicating a little bit of time out of your week to have some type of call with someone, you don't know who you're gonna call, and you don't know what leads you're gonna get out of that. Now, my cold calling channel- challenge has been 100% cold. There's no interaction with our business prior whatsoever. And so how we did that was obviously we generated a list of qualified landlords. We got the VAs to help with that. And we They want an image. And then we grabbed those numbers. So I've just got that call list, and for myself, I'm responsible for the growth in Geraldton. So it makes it really easy for my call scripts. "Hey, we're a new agency in Geraldton. This is our fee structure. This is what we're doing differently." And that's worked really well.

Sourcing Landlord Numbers Without Panic

3:33

Okay, let's go way, way back to- Yeah Basics. So new area. Yep. And 'cause this would be good for anyone that's even an established BDM- Yeah but just wanting to market a new area. Okay. So new area. You said you got the offshore team to do the, the list. Are you able to share how they're doing that? Are they doing that from RP Data and ID for me? Like- Yeah. So basically what we did was a data scrape off RP Data for properties that have been leased in the last 12 months and breaking it down by suburbs. And then we extrapolated that list and ran it through ID for me. So that's how we got all of our initial call numbers. We had a situation the other day where our BDM had done that- Yeah and had contacted someone and had a bad experience where the lady was just like, "Where did you get my details from?" And my BDM didn't-- She really panicked. Yeah. She hadn't really had that happen before. Yeah. And she, I said to her, "Listen, you know what? Call ID for me and just ask them for a spiel on how you should respond." Yeah. Which was probably the best thing that we did- because it made her feel more comfortable. She got the spiel from ID for me. She sent that through. And she actually told me the other day, she's actually now got a meeting- Yeah with the client. Yeah. So my best objection on that is I obviously don't wanna tell them that I paid for their data because then they'd feel really. I just said that we have a qualified marketing team that looks for qualified clients. And I put the question back onto you, "Are you a qualified landlord?" And then they think, y- yeah. But like- I like that and then that kinda changed the call script because it puts them in "Oh, am I worthy of this call?" And you're like, "Yeah, absolutely." Oh, I like that. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. Really- So it's a good little objection handle without saying, "I paid for your data." Exactly. Exactly. What i- the, in, are you able to put like how many leads- Should or could an offshore team member produce you? If someone's out there and they've got an offshore team- and they wanted to know how many leads is normal to be pr- like, to be given each week? What would you say? Yeah. Look, I would say and this is going back to my backstory, right? And w- I'm quite lucky to have Associates Co. As a part of Ella's business. So when I s- first started InspectionXpress, I actually hired one of Ella's VAs to start doing my data scraping for all the real estate agencies- in Perth, and then grabbing all of their names and numbers and creating this list. So if you dedicated a full VA to doing that, and if they're doing it through ID f- UpData and then ID for me, I could say easily a VA could get you about 10 to 15 an hour. Wow. That's just them manually doing it. But the faster way would be obviously to do that data scrape through UpData. Yeah. Get all the names and numbers, and then wash that through ID for me. So you can do a bulk wash through ID for me. Amazing. Yeah. It, it-- I just love you sharing those numbers- because I think that it's just that, that next layer of detail- is really good for people to have of- yeah what is, what's doable- Yeah and what's not. Yeah.

VAs, CRM, And Nurture Automation

6:25

And so that was a, a grunt work, obviously, initially for the VA, but then the post support from my VA as well is that we never had a CRM. We do now. I've just onboarded PME Grow as a part of our CRM, so we're able to upload that exported list into PME Grow. And then I worked really hard to create my nurture campaign. Great. So I actually don't touch PME Grow all that much. My VA probably knows more about PME Grow than I do. So I will just basically have my call list. It's off a spreadsheet, very old school, but I just put in my notes in there, and then when I get a call and they say, "Yes, send me through some informations", that's what I would qua- qualify as a lead. So then I will highlight that on the sheet. The VA will record the call note enroll them into a nurture campaign. The only thing that PME Grow doesn't do, which I wish they did, but my- VA puts in a call task to follow up. Yeah, okay. Exactly. So then it's like just constantly rolling in the background, and I'm just moving on to the next call, to the next call, to the next

What 1,000 Dials Really Produced

7:22

call. Out of all of those calls, and this is a question that someone will ask how many calls did I smash out this month? Look, I got to about 950, 960 calls in this month. I've had school holidays and Did you do it for the whole month? Yeah, I did it for the whole month. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Pulled back on the school holidays. I was probably only averaging about 40 to 50 calls. Yeah. But if I can get a full office day, it's quite easily for me to smash out 100 calls. So let's, okay, let's just round it up because I remember 1,000 c- cold calls for the month. Yep. Do you remember how many leads? Like, how many people were like, "Yes, send me through your info"? So it would be I could get one, one lead an hour and was probably averaging 15 to 20 calls an hour. So I got out of- It's really early, Kensley. Yeah. Can you please out of those I got about 145 leads out of those 1,000. Okay. Yeah. Would they be the only ones that you put onto the CRM? No. Did you put the rest on there still? Yeah. Yeah. Still put the rest on. Yeah. Still that I made a call at some point. Yeah. And then so if I get bored again. Yeah, okay. I go round for the second call. The other important thing to highlight as a BDM as well, these cold calls aren't just as well to landlords. I think it's really important that I've also used my VAs to write me a list. The same thing, way as I did when I was at Inspection Express. Find me all the buyer's agents, find me building inspectors- Yeah on that list, and then that can be, form part of my cold calls. I haven't got past that part 'cause I've still got 2,000 for ID for me. Yeah. But yeah, that's what I'm getting them to build into the next part of that. Are you doing a second month of 1,000 cold calls? Yeah, I have to. I really have to- Yeah like to get the grunt work of like getting those leads. So my first month I did bring on nine managements. Yeah, great. And then this month I'm at 12. Great. Yeah, so really And those have been a combination of leads that Hayley hasn't been able to, you know- Do. So those numbers are a bit- Because she, 'cause she's in hospital giving birth She just had a baby. So the numbers are a little bit skewwhiff, but it's still, leads that I've been able to generate for the- But that's literally in your first month, isn't it? Yeah. That's really impressive 'cause one of the questions I was gonna have for you was, like, what And this is not necessarily for you, but just in general, like with all your experience in real estate- is how long do you think people should give a BDM to start bringing in leads? 12 months. 12 months? Yeah, I think so. And what would you expect for someone to do sorry for 12 months to start bringing in the leads, but and do you mean within that 12 months just maybe just the odd one or two per month or? I think that a good BD should be within the first six months be getting up to that five- Yep to 10. Yep. And then anything post that, that's where you're gonna see some more numbers because you forget that, yeah, a BDM might move and they might have a small amount of referring part- referral partners- like buyer's agents and things like that. But if you're looking at some of these, these smaller businesses that haven't really got a, a name for themselves and things like that, it's about that BDM reintroducing your business- To the consumer- basically. And that will take time because it against the trust and rapport that takes a lot of time. Yeah. One thing that we heard last week at the conference was the difference between relationship manager and BDM. And I thought that was really interesting 'cause for me, with my team, I've got one who is very much BDM, but then I've got one who I would probably say she's more of a relationship manager- Yeah in that she really is she really is deepening the roots with relationships. And so while the numbers aren't coming through as high- as, as the other one at the moment, long term- there is so much value in what- In the retention she's doing. Yeah. In retention and the just, and also the referring partners that she's doing and, Yeah And dealing with. I see long term that being really great. So- for me, I think it's, you've got your short-term activity. And then you've got your long-term activity. Yeah. And you can't just focus on one or the other. No. I actually thought about this when I was, like, driving the other week, because I've obviously worked in bigger businesses. How come other smaller real estate agent offices haven't thought about an SDR or appointment setter? So if you've got a really good relationship BDM- if, and they're not great at cold calls, like not everyone is. Yeah. Like, why not get someone who would sit there to sit through and do the cold calls and do the appointment setting- Yeah for your relationship BDM? Yeah, absolutely. The so Natasha from My BDM is someone that does that. Yeah. And so you can literally, like you're saying- just get someone like that in. I'm sure any sales person, they don't even have to have real estate experience. No, they don't. Not at all. No. Just anyone, just to get those appointments in the diary. Yeah. So having a look at the gaps that your BDM might have- I think might be a good idea. And then yeah, just bring someone in to supplement that. Yeah. So while cold calling can be a really good short-term short-term activity to do- to, number one, just keep the BDM busy- Yeah and, you know- What else are we doing? What else are you doing? Correct. But also but from a short-term point of view that's really great creating traction. Are there any long-term strategies that you are doing simultaneously to protect that long-term growth? Yeah. Or are you seeing this cold calling as both short-term and long-term? I'm seeing it as both. Yeah. As in when I do my cold calls, I'm not very salesy. I've never been that type of BDM. And when I would say my purpose of a call is to get them to just at least say yes to get some in- information, right? 'Cause that's where we are starting to build that rapport, and we can start having that conversation. The second part of BDM is maybe it's not the, just the cold calling to a client you've never spoken to.

Relationship BDMs And SDR Support

13:04

Why haven't you called your existing clients? If you've got a large portfolio- and if they're happy with your service, why can't you just say how's everything going? Have you got a friend that's having a trouble?" Or anything like that. That's what we did when I first started, 'cause I oversee the Geraldton office. And just an introduction. We also g- gave them a market update as well. And we got two leads out of that, and we've only got 200 managements in Geraldton at the moment, but two- Yeah is really good. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I do the annual investor audits, and for me, w- which co- calling your existing clients is great. If you're not, if you're doing an annual investor audit- it's even better if you've got the time to do that with them. But for me I woke up this morning and had a client that was like, "We've got three properties to bring over to you." And I did a bit of a post on it because I'm like I get so frustrated at other agents. I'm like, "Guys like- Another messaging service I don't, yeah. Yeah. I don't need these." It's great that I get these referrals. I'm not complaining and not, I'm not hating on it. But guys people are losing them- Yeah really for no reason. No reason. I feel bad for them- Yeah that they're not, maybe doing staying in touch with their clients and all of that. Yeah. Yeah. So it's crazy that they don't do that. I think that's actually a really good tip. If there's someone listening- Yeah that maybe is "You know what? Cold calling-" It's not for me. I just can't do." Yeah. "That'll give me anxiety," maybe you- Call an existing client call your existing clients. Yeah. Do you know why? Because they already like you. They stay with you. Let's hope so. And if they're not, that's the perfect opportunity for you to turn it around, rebuild that trust. Yeah. And then they're not shopping around, if that makes sense. But I agree. I've done real estate for so long now. And the flick from a property manager saying, "What should I do?" The client's hired you to solve their problem. I know. Yeah. Give them the problem but a solution at the same time. Yeah. Packages up like that. Yeah. But we have AI now I'm sure AI could help you create a solution. Absolutely. Yeah yeah, that email this morning was that three, two, one, a- Yeah that's what, so that's what you were referring to. Yeah. That three, two, one or yeah. Yeah. 132 it must have been. And so yeah, that was referring to people just not forwarding on emails. 'Cause people still do that. Property managers still go- "See the email below from the tenant"- Yeah "what would you like me to do?" And I think still a big missing part of the industry is because we're so service-based, is that we do get office leads. And so when I take an office lead, they're like, "Oh, you called so quickly. Oh, you picked up the phone?" Yeah. And it's like, "Yeah. That's my job." That's right. But so many people are just so afraid to make the call, and they'll hide behind long, lengthy emails. Whereas n- 90% of the problem could be solved over a five-minute phone call. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I was speaking at RE/MAX last week and I was saying to the group, "Listen I love an email as much-" "as the next person." I rather not call. But it is a lot easier- Yeah just to do it, and you can tell the tone of people. Yeah, you can solve- Yeah issues. And while people are out there complaining that they're burnt out and that they've got so much work and all of that, it's like, just be really honest with yourself. Yeah. Like- Yeah. And even I love a voice note. Love a voice note. So do I. Yeah, my clients love a voice note. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. On a message, once I've got them connected on my phone or WhatsApp, yeah, a voice note, they love it. Yeah. I reckon that absolutely is, is a big thing. Now I have got some questions- which I just thought I would bring up. And I did put into my chat. Wait, let me have a quick look. And I said to chat, "Give me some juicy questions." So I'll throw some out. Let me just find. Okay. What's the rudest thing someone said to you during your Cold Call Challenge? Nothing. Actually, it's not even that scary. The scariest one was that lady being like, "Where did you get my number from?" Yeah. And I just thought on my foot and I was like, "Oh I've got a marketing team that does this, so is that you?" And she was like yes, that is me. But how did you know?" I said, "I have a marketing team. Do you want me to r- take them off the list, or do you wanna be on the list?" She goes, "I'll be on the list, thanks." Oh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Fantastic. That's a good good for everyone. Second one is, if you tracked your hours honestly- did the challenge actually pay for itself? Or could you have gotten those leads faster by taking clients, Out for a coffee out for a coffee or, yeah, face to face or on socials. What's your thoughts? Look, I find that Cold Call Challenge is h- really hard to see in short-term goals, right? It's not until you consistently do it that you will see some return on investment, some ROI, right? Because if I have to wait, I'm gonna say no, because I haven't... I've only converted one lead out of the last month- Yep into a management. Yep. Yeah, out of my 950 calls this month. Yeah. So it does feel like it's a slow game, but as I said, if you set it up, you do the nurture campaign in the background, I'm doing all the grunt work now to have an easier 12 months. Yeah. Yep, and I l- I love that quote 'cause I hugely believe that you can make the short term harder- for an easier long term. Or you can make today easy- but you're gonna consistently- Do it find it difficult. Yeah. Yeah, being a, Yeah, having to do it for the, basically the rest of your life and not getting the performance. What other juicy questions do I have? Sorry, let me just have a quick look. Okay. If a principal told a brand new BDM tomorrow, "Your whole job is 100 dials that day." Is that setting them up to succeed or burning them out before they learn the real skill? Do you think if, do you think... let me reframe that. Do you think anyone- wants to do 100 calls? Can- Can do cold calling? Anyone can do cold calling. Okay. I absolutely believe anyone can do cold calling. Okay. It's whether or not you have the, m- s- it's not very mentally stimulating, let's be real. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. And you've gotta say the same script over and over again. Actually, this is a good little tip for anyone listening, was that I had, have Claude, so used the brand voice that you- Yeah had trained us in PMC Lab. Yeah. So did the brand voice, and then I got Claude to write me a call script. A play-by-play. Yeah. And I have the same call script open- Yeah for every single call. And that's what I'm saying, it's not mentally stimulating, 'cause I'm saying the same thing every t- yeah every call opener. Yeah. But if someone had set that person a challenge, and so if you're a principal, a licensee, a business owner, and I've worked in high-performing sales teams as well, the calls, the 100 calls, is become very standardized for minimum requirement for any business development manager. Yeah. Because how are you meant to bring in business if you're not reaching out to anybody? Yeah. It's just not gonna work, is it? Yeah. And last week at that event, they were also saying they had a not negotiable, which was, Three face-to-face meetings the three face-to-face meetings. So I guess at the end of the day, it's probably, that's probably where I think it's import- this is the important takeaway, is have that not negotiable. And if the not negotiable is three face-to-face a day, or if it's 20 cold calls. Yeah. Maybe it's just 10 cold calls. Yeah. It doesn't actually really matter the number. No. It's just the routine and the consistency. Yeah. Would you think that would be fair to say? Exactly. But I'd look at sales teams now. Yeah. That sales, cold calls for sales, non-negotiable. Yeah. It's whatever. But we never thought about it for property management. Yeah. And now the market's softening again, people are like, "Oh, sales teams are gonna have to get on the calls again." Awkward. Yeah. Next minute all the sales agents- Yeah becoming property managers. I remember when I first started in real estate, I worked for Mark Kay. Yeah. And one of his things for his junior sales reps were they're on the dials. Yeah. Yeah. Taught, taught a lot of them a lot of resilience. Yeah. I honestly have, I have never cold called in my whole career- life. Like- Yeah so to play devil's advocate

Calling Existing Clients Beats Long Emails

21:10

for me- and what's comfortable for me is I love marketing to many. So that's my thing. So I have my community groups, I have my obviously my LinkedIn's g- is big. I have focused all my attention on that. And I get good business from that. Yeah. So to, for me to play, again, this is just devil's advocate, and this is the way my brain works. If I post To many. And like I said, my, my community group's really great as well on WhatsApp. I find that I allow people to trust me- in their own time. And then I would rather get a call from a client, 'cause then in a way from, with the power of in- with when you do some training in like influence and stuff like that, what they'll say is that when you have to call me- then I hold the power. But as a cold caller, if I'm calling you- then that person holds the power. What's your thoughts on that? Yeah. I think definitely. And because people, I actually made one cold call once and he ended up s- having sold his investment property a couple of months ago, but he was a local guy in Geraldton. He goes, "Thank God you're an Aussie, because if you were some other" He's like, "I might've hung up the phone." Yeah. And I was like, "Look, I appreciate that." And I feel like, yes, they're on the guard. How many times do we get a call from telemarketer or whatever it might be, and you hang up because you're just like, "I don't have time to think about this." I hung up because I thought it was a marketer. It was actually a client It was a client. Exactly. Oops. But I think that there is something in that for the strategy side of off-the-grid work, right? Yeah. Many years ago before you even had PM Collective, you had shared with your, us your insights. So if I have made that lead, do you think it's worth adding them on LinkedIn? Yeah. Adding them on a WhatsApp group, and then that way they're getting the information for free from you. Might not be necessarily the client w- right away- but you're building that rapport passively is the word I'm looking for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So in my WhatsApp community, which I've probably I was... I've probably not been too active with growing it. But I've got about 330 people in that group. And they're not all clients. There'd probably only be maybe 10% clients in that. So for me, I like that 'cause I actually did a couple of videos, Yeah in the group the other day. But I find that's like a semi-private group. And same with PM Collective, like I've got the WhatsApp community where it's just that little bit more private than those big general groups on Facebook. So for me, I see potential with smaller smaller little groups. Segments. And creating little communities in a-- I guess maybe if reflective of the cold calling versus, me who does the polar opposite- it's probably less about the actual the actual task and more about just committing to it- and doing that consistently. Consistently. That's right. 'Cause I do mine consistently- and I still perform well. You do yours consistently- and perform well, but they're two different tactics. Yes, that's right. If we were to potentially, if you were to do what I'm doing and I do what you're doing, could there be even more potential? Like- definitely I guess there would be. Yeah. So really then in a business where it comes down to is imagine getting the two- To marry together to marry together, two BDMs to marry together- to work as one. You do this, I'm gonna do that 'cause, you know- that's where the energy goes. And I think that's the thing, the energy of where people spend their time- is- Yeah it comes through naturally. So that's like probably the, the biggest probably takeaway is does an office have potential to have two BDMs working as one- both with their skill set? Both with their skill set. Yeah. Yeah. And look, as I said, Haley's a very relationship driven- Yeah BDM and it shows in her work. Yeah. With the amount of consistent month on month hitting 50- Yeah new managements per month. Even when she had that baby. Yeah. Her beautiful little daughter, she was still working. I was like, "Take a break, darling." I knew she would be back. No. I had no hesitation, Four, four weeks and she's back with a bang, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, no. We all knew that was gonna happen. And also having babies, I just, I al- always say It's actually the easiest to come back- when they literally just sleep- Just sleep. Exactly and feed all day. Yeah. In six months or 12 months, it might be a little bit harder- yeah. For it. Speaking about you, Hayley, not, you know- Yeah. not to you. But, that, that will be a bit harder, I would imagine, for someone. But in the earlier days- Yeah potentially a little bit easier. Yeah. And I think that was the whole reason why I joined Platinum, because Ella started that with her two small babies. Yeah. And Hayley's gone on to have her fourth. You- we sat in a podcast when Emma was still a tiny little baby on my chest. Yeah. So I think that being surrounded by women who are like, "I want, I still wanna achieve well in my career. Just because I have kids doesn't mean I'm in..." That's right. Yeah. I remember when actually Millie was asking me the other day she said, "Did you ever have time off when I was a baby?" I don't know why she asked that question. She's probably plotting some sort of- Yeah psychological issue she's got because of it. Yeah. But I remember I, I said to her, "Yeah." I said, "I would just put you in a baby bjorn, and I would just-" cover you up." And I said, "I would just arrange my appointments around your sleeping and feeding." Yeah. So I said, "If I had an 11 o'clock appointment, I would feed you at 10 o'clock. You'd then sleep. I'd take you out to appointment. No one even knew you were there." Literally just put a the- Yeah the mussies over your... See, is that what peop- mu- mussie's what I used to call it. Is that a mussie? You know what I mean? What? A- Like a Muslim. Muslim. A Muslim cloth? Muslim? Yeah. I used to call it a mussie. No. Okay. All right. No. Never heard of it. I'm very out of touch. Ash. Youthicism. Very out of touch. But do you find that we've seen a massive shift post-COVID for that? So I remember getting I remember gossip going around South Perth, like saying how unprofessional it was I was taking a, a baby to an appointment. And, but I think now- Post-COVID, I don't necessarily feel that people would take their babies to appointments, but are they working at home- alongside children? Yes. Yes. Yeah. But would, but that I don't think would be visible to the client. I'm not- seeing people take their babies out. Not that I have any problem with that. For me, if it was anyone in my team, I probably actually, I don't know. I'm just trying to think, 'cause even like when Casey had a had Ella when she was with us- and I actually, I think Ella might have gone to appointments and home opens and stuff as a toddler- Yeah and I never really worried about that. No. I've brought Emma to some home opens too. Yeah. I found that it also then carries your b- business ethos, right? Yeah. If your client was gonna have a problem with that- are they really your client? Yeah. The last time I took my kids out for a home open, it was many years ago. I'm pretty sure they were, like, five, seven, and nine. And they went through the legs- of a person who was just standing there. They thought it was like a tunnel game. Yeah. Yeah. And that was the last time my children have, have ever been allowed. Yeah. Luckily mine don't come to many home opens. But I remember when they were little, like doing a property condition report, be like, "Go and stand in the corner outside of the photo," and then I'd open a cupboard, "Get out of there, I'm taking a photo." They've since learned. But now with the 360, got nowhere to hide. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I've got Millie actually coming to do workplace with me- Oh, lovely on Fridays- just for the next semester. Yeah. I've actually got proper work for her to do though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see how that goes. I just wanted to track too about returning into BDM with my brain, my knowledge, and my skill set. I think sometimes also too, I'm getting pulled into some operational things 'cause I'm like- Yeah "Oh, that could be easily fixed." I know. Do you know, it's really I think the While it's fine every now and then to be pulled back into- operational stuff, and I've seen this a lot with B- even with BDMs where someone's on leave or they- help that person out. It's fine to do, but it has to be so random- that it's not seen as an expectation. Yeah. Because this is one thing that I do, have seen is that for a BDM, for example, if you are a BDM and it's not your role to do home opens- but you go and do home opens- then a property manager will get used to you doing that, and then there's an expectation set. And it's like hold on a second. That was only just a bonus. I'm really big on not creating expectations- and that's why things just have to be random. So for you, if you were to step into something that you saw could be fixed, and it was just random- fine. If you were doing it every single day- I'd be like- Yeah "Kenzley, watch yourself 'cause you're gonna, you're gonna end up in there." Get roped back in. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah But is it okay to help out? Yeah, absolutely. Sure. I've done keys or- Yeah i'm on the road. Most BDMs are on the road. Yeah. So I'm more than happy to help in that aspect. Yeah. And it's good just to stay in touch with everything- Oh, yeah as well and the processes. Okay, let me have a look at my other questions that I've got. We spoke about growth with expectations from you mentioned a BDM needing a good 12 months to see that traction. For me I

Churn Rate, Retention, And Investor Audits

30:07

would say, and this is just e- experience with, our new BDM who was also looking at a new area or looking at BDM in a new area that we still manage but just weren't active. And so she's been with us for about three months, and I think she's doing about three managements per month now, which I'm really happy with. Okay. And that's been just with her style. She's very much networking- with in p- in face to face. And I'm happy with that growth, and I would probably hope to see that probably double to maybe six in about month six to nine. With a plan that we get to about 10 for at the end of 12 months, 10 per month. Which, for me, could she be more, could anyone be more aggressive? Absolutely. Yeah, of course. Where I but I also I'm lucky that I'm at the point where I'm happy with them doing consistent, what they're happy with, that they don't go too hustly because it's not necessarily their style. I feel like it's probably because as a business owner, I'm not as... It's not that I'm not as hungry, it's just that I wouldn't want anyone to be doing something that really was like s- like- But is that the right BDM then? I know. It's, yeah no. I know, and I'm saying it to myself, and I'm like going, yeah, of course, why wouldn't you want more? Yeah. I, I don't... No I think I love the energy that each of mine bring. Yeah. And as long as it's, as long as there's growth, I'm actually okay. And actually, this is interesting because I was speaking to Marissa about business goals the other day and I was like, "I don't have business goals." I don't actually really care as long as it's moving forward. So for me, as a business owner, I don't actually, I actually don't know currently what our numbers are. All I know is that we're heading in the right direction. That's all my focus is. And so if I was a business that had really hard goals- absolutely I'd be tracking them and, and- wanting more and wanting to make sure those numbers were performing. But I think for me- as long as it's- I think also too, out of the back end, one serious question that any business development manager should ask if they're going for an interview is that, what is the goals onboarding? Yeah. But also too, how much are you losing out of the back end? Yeah. Ask a business owner last time they checked, how many managements have they lost? People don't know that number. They don't know that number. I've asked a few businesses lately. So I have heard mixed. I've h- most people I've spoken to like experts, have said 15% is really where it sits. Some people it could actually be 15 to 30% depending on their market. We, after doing the annual investor audits we fluctuate between 5 and 9% churn rate- which is really good. Really good. So I'm very happy with that, and that's probably why that growth- I, as long as it's forward- Yeah I'm okay, 'cause I've got the rest under control. However, I think with churn rate, they say that half of that churn rate is avoidable and half's non-avoidable. But I would also question, like if we use 15% as a figure, and let's say that half of that people would say it's unavoidable, they're sales. Yeah. I actually would question sales. I think sales can be avoidable. Yeah. I think sales can be avoidable, especially in this market at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. So pe- people are post-budget really unnervy- Yeah thinking about things, but I also remember when we had such a downturn in the Perth market, and so many landlords and investors were like, "I literally cannot afford." I said, "I can't tell you, I can't give you a crystal ball, but please, if you can afford to hold onto these properties- Yeah I would recommend you do it." Yeah. And now look at it. Most of them are doubled in value. Yeah. But we couldn't tell them when that was gonna happen. No one knows when that's gonna happen. Yeah but also too, I find it's sometimes tricky then for the sales side, would you consider it a loss if it's then referred to Bill, for example? I don't think I still think it's an, a I would still call it a loss. Has it affected the business? No. No. Exactly. But to me, a loss is a- Yeah A loss is a loss still. Yeah. The So if you look at that 15% and you say, okay, half is, Sales sales. Of that half, I would say that another half of that would be avoidable, which really means that you should, if you've got a 15% churn rate- I reckon you should be able to try and get that down to 10%. 10%, yeah. That would be what I would aim for as a company. I think 10% is, would be a healthy churn rate for normal- stuff. Probably a little bit less if you could, but- Yeah that, that would be, like, really- a big focus. And whenever I c- go in and I have new new members come through, and trying to work out where they're at, that's the first thing I always ask, "What's your churn rate?" And because that tells me whether there's a retention issue or a growth issue. And then you know where to start. Yeah. 'Cause there's no point looking at growth- No if you are churning. Yeah, you're losing. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. So then it's okay. But if your churn rate's really good- great, let's focus on- Yeah Your growth modules. But if you're not- Yeah let's focus on retention modules. I'd heard from a really large real estate office that the pressure was on their BDs to bring on X amount, and they said it's actually depressing because the amount of money the amount of properties you're bringing on we're actually losing out of the back end. And they made, really brought that BDM team down. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, as a business development manager, I'm selling the services of the agency. If they can't- maintain that relationship or keep that client, then that's actually a poor reflection on me. Yeah. But I've heard bigger agencies actually have that as a business model, that they actually just ex- Churn through them. They ex- yeah. They-- It's like they accept the churn rate. So therefore our churn rate's 20%. Therefore, we need to bring in this many managements. Yeah. It's like, what? Hang on. Yeah. It's is- There's a much easier way someone's not mathing. Yeah. There is an easier way. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where bringing-- even if you were to bring in a BDM whose sole responsibility was retention. It's like a BDM in reverse. That, to me, would be value. And that's what I would be- be doing, not a- If you were gonna do that, how would you incentivize that person? You would pro- I'd probably incentivize them for every annual investor audit they did. They got paid for it. Yeah. A client meeting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because the-- that, that would probably be the best way to work out still what their whole package should look like. But have a base. Plus, have, The investor audit. Yeah, have the investor audit. And then a KPI of 10 calls to clients to follow up for the investor audit. Absolutely. Because there is growth available in those calls. Like you said- you were able to get some cl- new business through that way. I've been able to get business through annual investor audits as well. Just simply by saying to the client, "Hey, do you have any other properties you'd like me to do this report on?" And they're like, "Oh, actually, yeah." Yeah. "Here's the address." So that's been really great. But the other thing is that with the annual investor audit and the invites that go out, only about 30% of owners say yes to it- Yeah to a face-to-face. Which is fine, and I always say it's the it's the invite that's important. However, if naturally 30% say yes to it- gosh, imagine if I could get the other 70%. Yeah. And if I- And see what's really happening. Absolutely. That would be, like, so valuable- to get in front of. I think that would be something that I'd do. But it's just interesting that some people have that as a a couple of large agencies I can think of, that's just their plan. "Yeah, we have a high churn rate, therefore we just bring in more managements." Or buy more. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. So weird. Okay, let me have a quick look. Last question for you. It's been actually quite painless, hasn't it? This is my third podcast with you. Oh.

Mindset, Consistency, And Public Accountability

37:31

I haven't been too controversial. No. Okay. All right. If cold calling only works when it's consistent- and most people would probably quit after two weeks of doing it- Yeah is the real problem the method or the mindset, and what kept you dialing on day 20? There's definitely mindset about the consistency, and also too not being too hard on myself. If I was, like, feeling it mentally drained, cold calling is energy transfer, right? Yeah. So if I was not feeling it that day, I'd be like, "Okay, let me just get to my 20." And I might have got to 19, and I was like, "This is the last one." But the consistency on that, and I think the more you do it, the more natural you get at it, the process. Does that make sense? Yeah. So yeah, she might h- have a massive uptick day, and you might s- feel super productive, but the, you're still getting the same results if you do it consistently in small doses. I think if you really dislike cold calling and it gives you the ick, like I had someone reach out to me and was like, "After I saw your story, I did three cold calls and I felt like being sick." And it's it's okay. Like you d- at least you did the three. Does that make sense? Yeah. So don't be so hard on yourself. And always try and dedicate the time. If you don't like doing cold calling, do it first thing in the morning. Yeah. Don't wait until the afternoon, because it's like going to the gym. Yeah. I only go to the gym first thing in the morning because I know I'll never get there in the afternoon. So and then also too, it doesn't have to be as crazy as my cold challenge. It was like an internal joke and, I wanted to because, I feel like I'm a baby BDM. I'm re- returning- Yeah to the real estate in- industry again- Yeah after such a long time off. But just being consistent with those calls every day. And then I also think I've gotta give a job to my VA to do, so like- yeah i've gotta be responsible for somebody else with some workflow. Do you think that posting the challenge on social media helped you Be accountable? Yes, it did. Yeah. So much so that I did obviously drop off of my socials, so everyone was asking me what I was doing. I did as well. That's why I said earlier, did you do the whole 30 days? Yeah. I'm like, I'm pretty sure I only saw the first couple of weeks. Yeah. And I did. And then anyone's listening to this podcast will saw my stories. The school holidays happened, okay, guys? Yeah. I'm trying. And then you know- I'm just hearing excuses, Kensley. No, the social things is hard. I actually feel like- Yeah I need to get someone in to help me with that. But we would, we had the thing with Nat, and was like, "Oh, do you schedule your stuff?" I said, "No, I've never scheduled my socials because I just don't feel it's authentic if I schedule stuff." No. Anyway, but I think it is fun, and I really still wanna find out if James, or Jesus thinks cold calling is dead. Yeah. Never responded to my story. Didn't he? No, never. Didn't he? Okay. Interesting. And hopefully I'll get an answer. And if I get an answer, I'll definitely post it on my socials. Yeah. But I think it was great to posth- post on the socials. Again, as my background is business development management, B2B with real estate agents, so that's my audience, right? Yeah. I don't have a large audience of investors or clients or things like that. So it actually started so many discussions. And I was like pumped for it. I think that really helped with my motivation. So much I had a 30-minute meeting with a real estate agency in Queensland, 'cause she was just like, "What are you doing?" Yeah. And I'm more than happy to share those things. Yeah. Amazing. I'm sure that there'll be people out there that might just It's probably just the start that they need. Yeah. Just that little prompt. Okay what's the first thing that you say? If you are thinking that you wanna do cold calling and maybe your numbers aren't there and you need to do something- then reach out to Kensley, who can help you with w- how she developed her script and- Yeah yeah. Or just reach out to me and I'll put you in touch. And just to finish off, one last question. I've got these random cards here. Gosh. They're, yeah, these are deep, they're deep cards. Okay, here we go. This, and they're very generic. What's a decision you made that felt wrong at the time but turned out to be exactly right? Wrong was when I switched out of property management- and then straight into B2B sales, 'cause I had no sales experience whatsoever- prior. And I was very lucky that someone took a risk, and I obviously proved them wrong. And I'm kinda here where I am today. And it's probably made you a really great BDM- I would say, having that experience. Yep. Cross-promotional. Yeah. Trying to sell to real estate agents. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Trying to sell to s- something for people who sell things all day. Who's easier to sell to, real estate agents or sell to investors? Investors. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Because they're coming to you. Either they've come to you 'cause they've got a problem- Yeah and you're a business owner as well- Yeah so you're probably glad that I don't have to call you 700 times a day to be like, "Do you wanna buy what I'm selling you?" And you're like, "Oh." So basically, if you're a BDM and you think your life's hard- Yeah. Go call up one of the suppliers or referring partners for a job for 12 months. Yeah. And then you'll find life easier. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And do you know what? There's a lot of them looking for jobs looking for employees, so I'm pretty sure you could just go approach any of them and they'll- Yeah give you a job. Yeah. Amazing. I appreciate you sharing all of that information. Just a quick highlight for Associates Co. as well because that's the offshore team that Kensley uses at Platinum as well, and they're the ones that have helped with all the data and doing all the backend, so she can just do what she does best. So if you want any more information on them, just reach out as well.