Stop Buying Pizza and Start Leading

We turn a simple coffee catch-up into a blunt, practical talk on why workplace culture rises or falls on leadership behaviour, not perks or policies. Alan Mpora shares how alignment, self-reflection, and human connection become even more important as AI reshapes the work we do. 

• leadership advisory explained as culture transformation led from the top 
• why most businesses seek help only after resignations and HR drama 
• skill versus will as the fastest way to diagnose performance issues 
• recruiting for values alignment with mission, vision, and purpose 
• why Friday pizzas and “benefits” cannot cover up bad leadership 
• AI making soft skills and real human connection more valuable 
• real estate and property management shifting from transactional work to client leadership 
• psychological safety as taking someone’s concerns seriously even if you disagree 
• informal one-to-one time and open-door leadership versus textbook meetings 
• budgeting emotional support time and linking culture to retention and P&L 
• forgiveness, purpose, and learning from life changes without living in regret 
they can find me on our website, www.mporaconsulting.com, or you can find me on LinkedIn, Alan Mpora

Allan Mpora – Business Consultancy

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Transcript

Coffee Chat Turned Podcast

0:00

So welcome, Alan. Um- Thank you very much it's really great to have you here. And, um, I met Alan when I was doing a networking event for Ari, someone in my team. And you came along, and you said that you were into leadership and you have a consulting business. Yep. I love anything leadership. So for full disclosure, I said to Alan, "Let's catch up for a coffee, but instead of having a coffee at a coffee shop and just exchanging conversation, can we record it so then I can use it for content- and multitask?" Which is a really good idea. Absolutely brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so I... Now that I'm doing it with you, I sort of feel like maybe it was a little bit informal- This all right? Yeah, I love it. I, I, I love the concept. Um, and for full disclosure, she did hijack me, and, um, I've got a PA little bag in the corner just- I was just messing around. No, I think it's a brilliant idea. I think it's a brilliant idea. Yeah. Excellent. And thank you for the opportunity. My pleasure. So, um, tell me a bit more about the, your role and, and sort of who you're working with and what you're doing

From Training To Culture Change

1:03

with the teams. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I'm in the leadership advisory space. So what it means to be, um, a lot-- mouthful right there, leadership advisory. So I work with businesses, organizations, leaders about how they can transform their culture within their businesses, right? Um, and for me, what I've seen in the past is a lot of people focus on, like, training courses, but that's only your twenty percent, right? I think if you use like a se- seventy/twenty/ten model, um, twenty percent comes from your, um, courses or thereabout or sitting with someone. So I wanna focus on the cultural aspect, so working with the leaders, CEOs, and so that it trickles down. It trickles down to every single, um, individual, but not just starting bottom up. Starts with the culture. Why are we here? What is the organization around? Does everyone believe in that, right? And then that's how we translate it across throughout the whole organization. Now, who do I work with? Predominantly anyone, 'cause leadership is leadership. Uh, but I do try and refine my business model to where you've got ten or more. Um, there is some science where, um, you can lead comfortably a team of seven. Um, when you start getting to eight, nine, ten, that's where you get to the fracture or breaking point, and perhaps you need a little bit more support with that. So that's it. Do you find that people bring you in as a proactive or a reactive- Ooh role? Ooh, ooh, right. To be fair, um, that's probably been the toughest part of this journey for me, um, finding- Or bringing awareness to clients that they need me. Um, so to answer your question, there's been a lot of reactivity, so I get pulled in when things have gone wrong. Um, so what would that look like? You know, perhaps, um, they've had a lot of resignations within the business company and, or they've had some HR dramas, and we probably don't know how to have the right conversations, right? Now, I call that a symptom. Like, you know, but if we're trying to build culture, it's not just about that one conversation, it's about how do we make this sustainable throughout the organization? How do we align this to your kind of vision, mission, and purpose? And, um, yeah, but unfortunately, a lot of, um, organizations' leaders, the levers that they pull would be You know, let's, I don't know, add more resources. Let's fire people rather than going down the leadership route, looking into the mirror, seeing what is it that I need to do as a leader first to affect the culture to lead to better results? So coming back to your question, yes, I find it's a lot more reactive. The proactive leaders are fewer than I would like. Yeah. Yes. I have spoken to many a business owner, and I have had to say to them, "At what point are you going to self-reflect- Yep on the reason, you know, that you can't find, you know, new staff?" And so I think that it's such an interesting space because people don't really realize. But I don't know your thoughts on this comment, but the first thing I think of is that I... Someone who is a problem in the business who doesn't recognize that they're the issue- Yep I don't know whether I would have trust that they would be able to be trained out of it. I actually feel like they would be better moving aside- Yep and bringing someone in. So my thoughts, which, uh, I mean, I'm very happy for you to disagree with that- Yep is that it's actually really hard to train, and sometimes people are just in the wrong position. Hundred percent.

Skill Versus Will And Hiring Fit

5:07

Um, and I think first and foremost, two things can be correct at the same time, right? Like when it comes to people, I think one of the critical aspects I always look at, is it a skill or will issue, right? Skill you can train. That, that you can always upskill someone, whether they're slower technical staff or whether it's... That, that can always be trained. The will, that's the hardest part. Again, the will can be, um, there's scope for people to change, and that's where, um, kinda mindset stuff, coaching, psych, um, conversations can help people, um... I was g- I was, I was gonna say move their will or, or, or pivot from- Mm-hmm what their current thoughts are. But that's the harder one to change. So if someone isn't aligned to... And I'll go back to culture and strategy and why the organization exists You can't, you can't move that person. They're, they're probably the wrong person in the wrong company, in the wrong organization doing the wrong thing, right? And I think for me, that's the critical part that we miss. We sometimes hire people because of their technical abilities, but they're not aligned to whatever your vision, mission, and purpose of the organization is. So I'll, I'll just take a rough example, not-for-profit. We're out there, we wanna change the lives of the customers we interact with, right? Here I am hiring a GM who's just career-driven, and that's okay, but potentially they're not aligned towards the mission, vision, and purpose of the organization. What you're gonna get, maybe not now, maybe not tomorrow, but you'll get a misalignment of values. How they do things within the organizations might not speak to the vision, mission, and purpose of the organization. And as a result, you'll get that divergence in thoughts, customer experience, internal staff engagement, and I think that's where it starts. From that initial recruitment, we had a misalignment in what our thought process was. I hope that answers your question. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it does. So then what happens if you miss the opportunity in the recruitment- Yep process? You've now got a long-term team- Yep who could be becoming a little bit stale. Yep. Is it a matter of- You know, I guess from a business point of view, I see businesses who think, "Oh, we'll fix this by having social events- Yep and we'll like, you know- The pizzas on Friday. pizzas on Friday and do it all. And it's such an interesting space because... And actually, you know, when you walked in, I was on a webinar, and we sort of were talking about this, that people quite often create culture based on what they've read and very textbook. Yep. And it's not textbook. No. And it's, um... I call it the structured management random leadership. I actually practice random leadership- Yep 'cause I think you get more out of your team. As soon as things are structured, whether it's... I mean, and again, you might correct me on this, but it's just for me, what's worked in my business is that the struct- structured management doesn't, um, i- sorry, not the structured management, the structured leadership doesn't work. Yep. So if you ask someone who's like, "But we let them have birthdays off, and we have Uber Eats on Fridays, and then we do this, we do that." Why is everyone still complaining? Yep. It's, it- things can become an expectation, and I think that's a really dangerous territory to be in when people just expect things. Absolutely. Um, so, so just going back to, back to, um, so my original, um, comment was that if you have got a long-standing team, how can you shift that? Is it... Well, can you shift it? And, and, and is it Friday lunches? I think Friday lunches are good. So for everyone- Yeah listening, and pizzas, beers on Friday, I think it's a good thing. But where we start off would be, and again, I go back to that alignment. So for me as an owner, right, um, leadership team, executive team, are we clear about why we exist? So again, my conversations are a lot about internal reflection as a leader, internal reflection as an organization, internal reflection as a, um, CEO, founder, whatever, right? So that's where it starts. So once I'm crystal clear about what it is I'm here for, then it's easier to propagate your message to your team, right? So if we've got a long-standing team that we missed that opportunity at the interview stage, perhaps we didn't communicate that, there's nothing wrong with re-clarifying expectations. So this is why we exist as a company. Perhaps we weren't as clear when we started in articulating that. This is where we stand today. Are you on board? Are you not on board? That's a pretty mature conversation, not confrontational- Mm in any way. And if you're not on board, that's fine. How can I help you align to where we are? Because we value you as an employee. But if you're not aligned to where we're trying to go, then that's also okay. Let's just shake hands, and, um, I wish you the best in your next career journey, and let's move on. Mm. And I, for me personally, I might be oversimplifying it. There's a lot of other things that go into that- but I think it's as simple as that. So if you have that longstanding team, and now they're clear about where you're going, and they're still not al- um, I don't know, delivering the results that you want, or you're still a bit fractured, then this is where we start going into your, either your structured leadership about how regularly are you touching base? Are you connecting them? Are they in the right role? Are they, um, do they have the right job control? Do they have enough autonomy about their role? How's their leadership structure, right? If we're ticking all those boxes, all right, this is where we come into the flexibility. How connected are we with them at a human level? So again, I think it's multifaceted, but there's all those different layers that as a leader, organization, we've gotta continue to think about. And then, um, lastly, beers and pizzas always work. There you go. So- That's a very, that'd be a very easy fix if that's all- Absolutely all we needed to do. I think, I mean, and, and if I could just a- a- again, a lot of companies go into the beers and pizzas and think that solves it, right? Mm. I might have a, and I hope I can swear a little

Why Perks Cannot Fix Culture

11:33

bit. Yeah, yeah. You've got a shitty boss and a shitty culture within the organization, but I get you guys beers and pizzas on Friday, and I go like, "All right, Monday, I'm gonna treat you like shit again." Mm. That doesn't work. I'll be happy on Friday 'cause I'm getting free drinks, but then on Monday I'll, I'll be like, "Oh, here we go again. I've gotta show up to work, and now I'm looking forward to Friday." And that's not the kind of employee you want. That's- I was just gonna say that the, the Friday pizza and beers is actually not about the pizza and the beers. It's probably also about you being present and the chats around the table- Yep and the connecting. So if you were a business owner that maybe just supplied that to the team, and you weren't even there, and you were just like, "I just- Bring it in and order it in. Yep. That's not gonna hit the same as your boss or you being the boss being there with them, what's been going on- Absolutely what's everyone's plans for the weekend, like that is actually the important part. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and to be fair, I'm not sitting on s- on the top of the mountain. I've got this wrong as well. Yeah. So I've led teams where the culture hasn't been where it has, I would love it to be, but intrinsically, as a leader, I know I didn't nail it. Mm. So I th- a- again, this is where my self-reflection piece is really important, or I've had people outside tell me, I've had my own teams tell me, "Hey, Al, we need to revisit," or, "We're not happy. Let's try again." And I think that's the journey that a lot of leaders either, I'll use the word pride, um, perhaps don't wanna look in the mirror and say, "Hey, perhaps I didn't get this right." And that costs a lot of money-

Resignations And Self-Reflection

13:10

Yeah overall. Yeah. Yeah. I had a situation about three months ago- Mm-hmm three, four months ago. Um, I've been saying three months ago for quite a while, so that's why I think it's, like, four or five months ago now. Um, but it was, I had, uh, four resignations within two weeks. Yep. I think it was four. One I already knew about and had- Yep planned for. Um, and then I had, yeah, I think it was three. Um, and it, that had never happened to me, 'cause I have a long-term, um, team base. So, um, that had just sort of shocked me. And I did find myself, like, thinking, "I'm pretty sure I haven't done anything wrong." Yep. "I'm pretty sure it's not me." Um, but I did have to question myself to go, or am I just giving, you know, am I being completely naive at this? Have I literally done something wrong? And I don't think I did. And to make myself feel better, I sort of think, okay, well, this was a very isolated case- Yep in my whole, I've had the business for 20 years. This was an isolated case that hasn't happened to me before. I won't be too hard on the self-reflection. Yep. But if it was a constant thing, absolutely- Absolutely I would pay a little bit more attention. But I think that I would, weirdly, I don't know whether I would think to myself, "I need to go do some work on myself." And I'm only giving that to you as feedback. I don't know if I would do that. Instead, I'd be like, "I don't trust myself. I'm gonna get someone else to do the interview process instead, because I don't think I'm doing a very good job of it." I'm thinking about it. In my mind hearing that, I think both of those are really good reflective thoughts. Mm. Because I think the situation about people leaving the business, a lot of leaders go, "It's them," right? Listening to your story, you still had that reflection where- You know, let's understand where the gaps were. And I think that's the journey. Sometimes, uh, you're absolutely right, Ash, it, it's probably not you, it's an isolated situation, but you have to go through that reflection, you know? Yeah. Um, and, and, and you're right, some people may pivot and say, um, "Perhaps I didn't get the interview right," but again, that's reflection. That's, that's, that's the journey, and I think- Mm-hmm that's leadership 101 right there. Yeah. In my mind. And I think that's, that's a great example. Well, it hasn't happened again, so. But then I haven't done any interviews again. I'll give you an example, maybe from a sales business perspective, right? So, um, if you don't land a client, y- with a tender or you go out and you meet them, you can't always go, "It was them," right? Mm. There, there's always that part of the process where you go back, "Oh, perhaps did I not write the tender properly? What could I have done differently? Did I not connect with the client?" That's the part that makes you a better salesperson, you know? Or- Yeah, true how do I build a re- But I felt that in that leadership space, for example, or from what I've seen with a lot of my clients are the ones potentially who've been, um, in sticky situations, that reflective journey comes a lot less frequently than it should. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I don't mean that you should always point at yourself, because now we can get into that cycle of like, "I'm, I'm always the problem," but I think the reflection process is important. Yeah. That's a critical piece. Yeah. Well, I did reflect, so tick. Um, I did things right. Um, h- now my next question is around AI.

AI Automation And Human Leadership

16:42

Mm. How do you think that is going to affect leadership? And I mean, there's probably so many layers to that- Yeah but is it going to replace... L- like, is it going to, I mean, is it gonna replace leadership? Are people gonna need to be managed differently? Like, w- a- what's the talk, um, and conversations in, in your industry? There is a lot of it at the moment. So, um, just for background, you know, I, I did my org psych post-grad at UWA, um, and this is probably about two and a bit years, and the AI conversation had started, right? And I think, um, a lot of the conversation was around, you know, just companies downsizing and, you know, less people, a lot of the manual roles. But I think one of the things that made me confident about this line of work and what I'm trying to do is the people side of things. I've, I still haven't found AI, although I do use my ChatGPT and ask it a lot of personal questions, "What did that text feel to you?" You know? But I still feel the connection side of things that you get from your leader, from people, is the one piece that AI will not be able to replace. So from a leadership culture engagement perspective, I feel now that we're moving more into the AI space, it becomes even more important to connect with people on a human level and be able to understand what's happening, Ash. Like, um, I noticed today that you're not your usual bubbly self Is anything going on in your world? If everything's fine, that's fine. Put in a note, I'll check in with you later. AI's not gonna do that. Mm. My Claude or ChatGPT doesn't really, um, check in on me, "Alan, how are you doing today?" But no, it's not. Yeah. And I think that's the, that's the stuff that builds loyalty towards a brand or an organization. I think it's that human interaction that makes, um, an employee or someone give you that discretionary effort. Mm. It's Ash- I'm gonna be there for Ash. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna be there for your business, but it's Ash. You know, I don't wanna let Ash down. Mm. I don't wanna let my customers down, I don't wanna let the kids down. It's that human interaction at the end of the day that keeps us going. Yeah. I, I went to an event not long ago, and it was, um, on AI, and it definitely said that the more we go down AI and automation, the more the need- Yep for human connection. So it's actually going to-- people think it's going to create less human connection, but it's actually gonna create more- Yep because that's the way the pendulum swings. So I feel... So then going into the real estate industry, what I, um, would suggest is gonna happen is that... And the reason I love talking about the future of the industry because the decisions we make now need to be reflective of what we believe. Now, what I- I love that line of yours. I, uh, 'cause it's not the fir- I'll, I'm sorry to jump in. Yeah, yeah. It's not the first time I've heard it. You mentioned it last time we caught up, and I was like, "Wow, I love that", you know? Yeah. The, the decisions we make today will... Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I love it. Yeah. Because, and, and it, I mean, what I think's gonna happen in the future is my thoughts. Yep. And it doesn't have to be the same as someone else. But whatever you think your, whatever you think the future will be, just make sure that your decisions are in line with that. But if you don't think, if you don't make decisions based on that, then you're really in a very vulnerable spot. So whatever you think the industry's gonna look like in five years' time or two years' time, you make those decisions. So for me, the way that I see it is that I think that we are going to have that, that upper management, so I think with that leadership. Yep. But not leadership just with the team, but leadership with our clients and our investors. So very heavy in that human connection leadership role. Because property managers, it, there's two different types of leaderships. But you've got your, your business owner who leads the team- Yep but then you've got your property management team that leads the investors- Yes on them and their decisions- Yep of the market and all of that. Yep. So I feel like we're gonna be quite heavy from a leadership point of view in businesses. And I think we also, and this is an ethical, um, decision- Being quite, um, heavy on the trainee roles and bringing new people into the industry, which I think is really important. Yeah. But then that little bit in between, I feel like that is going to reduce, and that role is what we see in today's world as a property manager, a very transactional property manager. So I do think that that will reduce, and I do think those property managers will look after more. But their roles are now just gonna step into that leadership position. So it doesn't mean that they go away, and you don't need them anymore. They just change. So then therefore, we need to increase capacity for transactional property managers, but then increase the specialist leadership role, um, in the team. So we're heavy in leadership, potentially heavy in trainees and, um, junior positions, and then that middle. Yep. And, and it's probably similar for all industries 'cause, I mean, at the end of the day, all businesses pretty much are the same. Absolutely. Like, I think the structure of businesses- Yep, yep um, that's where I think we will fall. And I, and I, I think that the automation sits in that middle role as well- Yeah because that's how you have less people in those roles because of the increased automation. So yeah. Yeah. Okay. I, I, I'll be very, very much, um, aligned with that school of thinking because-- And I love what you said, um, in terms of just the pivot. I think that's the biggest change. A lot of people, um, I speak to are worried about, you know, job losses and, um, with AI coming in, and even historically when I was in the bank, that was a big concern, you know. So how we-- what's gonna happen to our roles? Is AI gonna take over? But I think important part is that people have to learn how to pivot and shift into different roles. Now, talking about the structure that you mentioned, in my mind, I think historically what we've done, we've probably promoted people with technical skills into leadership roles, right? Mm-hmm. Now, I think if AI comes in, there's gonna be less of people being promoted because of technical skills. It'll now be people getting promoted because of their leadership skills- Yeah because are you able to lead? Technical, that can be done by someone else, or the team is gonna be pretty good at the technical stuff. We wanna know how else can you, uh, drive results through others? How can you motivate a team to be able to give you the results? How can you hold them accountable? How can you deliver performance? And I think that's where someone's gonna be able to shine. Mm-hmm. Um, interestingly enough, again, I'm sorry, probably not answering your questions, but I'm just going on different pivots. I've been, um, doing some mentoring with some uni students, and, um- AI, again, front of mind for them. They're like, "Oh, AI is coming. What should I do? What should I work on?" I said, "Yeah, absolutely. You can't bury your head in the sand about AI. You need to be on it. You need to learn as much as possible." But I said, "The biggest things, in my humble opinion, what to do right now, is focus on your soft skills." So how can I be curious? How can I be humble? How can I be open to feedback? How can I... The soft skills, that's the stuff that's gonna separate you from everyone else coming in now, because technically, the answers are all out there, you know? Mm. It's just about who's willing to do the extra mile, who's b- who's gonna be willing to engage with the customer, and that's the stuff that's... You know when we talk about skill and will? Mm. This is that will stuff. The, the things that we can't really teach, that's what's gonna separate you from that next candidate. You know, if I can see that you're curious, humble, coachable, you're probably the candidate I'll take- Yeah rather than I've got the best exam results right now. Oh, a- So, yeah absolutely, absolutely. I, um, I think that's probably where leadership now, in real estate, needs to be focusing their time and energy in creating, like, I like that, the soft skills- Yep with the, the property management team, and how to help them get into a leadership role for their clients. Yep. So it's the leaders teaching the leaders, but that's really, like, that would be, like, where all the work needs to be. Yeah.

Adaptable Leadership And Psychological Safety

25:11

I, I, I can throw a question to you, Ash, if you don't mind. Yeah. Where do you see the biggest, um, leadership gap today in your industry? I- in what, in what sort of sense? Like, um Like what they, what they're not doing or- Yeah I feel like they're very much textbook. Um, they're very much doing what they think is the right thing. Yeah. And I don't think people are really, um, um, ad- uh, being adaptable to every single person and knowing. Like I know my team well. I know, like this might sound so weird- but like, I know which property manager gets hiccups when she's hungry. Yep, yep. She literally gets hiccups when she's hungry, and that means that I, I know which team member values this type of support. I know which person doesn't wanna have chats about work, but just wants me to go, "Hey, how was your weekend?" Mm. "How are the kids?" I know what-- I know, um, where they see my values. So like, or I know where they, the, the value's there, and I try not to waste time- Yep being a leader to them in an area that's actually not important to them. Yep, yep. I also find that people really lack the understanding of, um, just because something's not important to me doesn't mean it's not important to them. Yep. So I think that we're very quick to go, "Oh, you know, why do I have to deal with it?" Like, you know, or n- it's like not, not caring the urgency that that question has for that person. Yeah. Where I put aside my own time and, you know, like, like sometimes... Sorry, I'm probably like answering it like really weirdly, but like sometimes in my head I'm thinking, "I really don't have time- for this." But, but it's not about me. No. It's, this is important to them. Yes. It's important that I listen and give them time because, so it's, yeah, it, it, I put a lot of value in what's important to the other person. Um, and yet sure, you've gotta be, make sure you look after yourself. You do. But I remember, and, and children help you work this out pretty damn quickly, um, especially teenagers. But I remember when Millie was probably about, she would've been about 10, and she's always been very good with her words, and I know that I'm gonna be very happy with those boundaries when she's, you know, in her 20s. Yeah, yeah. I want her to keep those boundaries. But she has been the kid that, uh, is very outspoken. So she said to me one day, must've been 10 years old, she came home whinging about school or friends, whatever it was. And I said, "Mill, it's not a big drama. Don't worry about it." Yeah. "Don't, don't stress over it." And she turned around to me and she said, "I wish you would stop saying that because" And it make me even teary just even saying it 'cause I felt so bad. She said, "It's really important to me, and you're acting like it's not a big drama." Yep. And I was like, "I'm so sorry." But because she said that to me- Yep that changed, that changes the way that I deal with other people. Yeah. Love that story. I, I thank you for sharing that. Uh, I think that's, that's such a powerful, um, take. And, and, um, yeah, as you, as you shared that, it, it really got me reflecting and, um- We forget that. Yeah. We absolutely forget that. So... Oof. Sorry. Well, now I can recall that. No, I love it. I love it. Yeah. This is, this, this is, this is the world- And, and I don't have time to edit- Yeah. so, like, it's gotta stay in. Thanks very much, Alan. I'm sorry. I am sorry. But- I'm sorry but speaking of, like, coming back to AI- No, it's all right I did, I did... That's all right. It's not the first time anyone's seen me cry, so it's like- No, but I, I love it. I, I love the vulnerability. But yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. And I think it, it is important, like, you know, if I put a underline on that, um, just 'cause it's not important to me- Mm-hmm doesn't mean it's not important to someone else. And, um, I think, again, overall as leaders, business owners, it's important to, to be able to distinguish that- Mm and give people... I know psychological safety is a big buzzword- Mm that's going on around. I know it's formed one of your legal requirements in all businesses at the moment, but that's what psychological safety is all about. Yeah. Giving people space to be able to communicate how they feel and, and, and, and giving them the comfort that they can do that. Mm-hmm. And it's not about just shutting something down because it's not important to you. It is important to them. That's what the whole psychological safety is about, so. Oh, exactly. And, um, actually just on the webinar, we were just talking about, I'm actually, probably much to your disgust, I'm not- I, um, I'm not a fan of one-on-one meetings or s- actually staff meetings. I actually really, really don't like them. I think- Why is that? Um, I find, again, I just feel like it's textbook. Yeah. I feel like people do it for the sake of doing it because some book says that that's what you should do. Yep. And just because that's what they say you should do doesn't necessarily mean it's right, and I just find that they don't come natural. I find that it's like I'm fi- not that I... I've had my operations manager try them and try to reintroduce them, and it just doesn't work for our team. But it's like you, it's like you're finding something for the sake of finding- Fair something to talk about. Fair. Fair. And so with the psychological safety, what I would rather is not have dedicated time that you've gotta bring problems to me. I'd rather be available at any time that suits you- Fair. Fair. Yeah to come to me. So I would rather that be on the team's timeframe versus my timeframe. So- Again, remember at the top, two things can be right. So- Yeah I feel if that's the operating rhythm, I'd call it, that works in your team, absolutely. Why not? Mm-hmm. I would challenge your thought, um, around the one-to-ones. I think you are already doing them You probably aren't doing them in that formal Monday morning, 9:00 AM is your time. The fact that you know who hiccups when they eat, that tells me you've had a lot of one-to-one time where they've been able to disclose something that's really personal to them, so- That makes me feel a lot better. I like that. I do, I do, do have one, one-on-one time. Yeah, you absolutely have them. Yeah. It's just you, you're probably not sitting down and saying, "Tell me about this." Just- No, you, you are having them, so- Not in the diary, that's all. Yeah, absolutely, and that's fine. You know, as a leader, listening to your style, I think you're the one who wants people to... So you're giving them that space to operate, you're giving them the autonomy, you're asking them to reach out to you, which is again, a lovely, um, leadership style where you're letting them own their problems rather than you taking them on. So you're telling them, "Look, my door's always open to you guys. Hit me up when you've got something on your mind, and it's on you to let me know when you need me and how I can support you." Different style of leadership- Yeah also works. Love it. And they, they all do come to me- Yep and which is, I guess, that is the leadership, um, um, opportunity. Like, the, if they didn't come to me, then there would be an issue. Yep. But they do come to me regularly. Yep. Daily if they need to. Like, it's, it's fine. It works out. Yeah. It works.

The Hidden Emotional Hours At Work

32:35

It's, um, it's one thing, again, on this webinar I was just talking about, was about the emotional space that, um, and the emotional hours we need to allocate to our team. Yep. And I have calculated that I find it's about two hours per team member per week that we need to allocate to that emotional, um, that emotional support, and that's what I found that a lot of people underestimate the value of that. And I would go on to say, like, it is actually, as a leader or a boss, it's actually your role to, uh, have enough room for that space. But because it's not income producing- Yep people don't see it as time well spent, and it's so important Yeah. But I, I've just... And I guess I'm only saying it, it's prob- it's probably not a question, it's a fact. I just said, "Yep." More than anything. That's it. Yep. Just agree. Allan says yes. Um, but it's just a fact because if I've got business owners listening to this, I want you to know that if your head of department or your operations manager, you can't actually see, you know, on the checklist what they've done, there's... You need to allow for those hours. So if you've got-- if they're helping 10, you know, 10 people on the team, that's ultimately 20 hours of work a week that might not be accounted for- 100% but it's being used. And even though you can't see that time and the value of that time, you will see the value of it through retention and, you know, longevity. 100%. And first and foremost, yes, yes, and yes. You know? I've, I've got a, um, like a preso that I do for businesses because going back to your earlier point, uh, people who engage me, it's normally reactive, right? Mm. And I think when they hear leadership advisory or, you know, culture, they think I'm only going out there to give everyone hugs. I think I've said this about... And they're like, "Nah, it's not for me." But your point, I, I try and bring the relevance between the work that you're doing Forming your culture, setting, um, you know, clarifying your vision, aligning everyone to that, and having a system in place, which is, you know, your catch-ups and having the two hours as an example to, to spend with your team. I actually try and draw the parallel and show them how that helps their business from a revenue P&L perspective. If you can increase the productivity of your team by them giving you that discretionary effort, by them understanding that they're psychologically safe, that will translate to your P&L as well. Mm. If it saves you from employing someone new, how much downtime are you losing by that person leaving? How much downtime are you losing when your new person comes into the business? That I can show you how much money you are losing out of your P&L. So- Mm. I, yes, yes, and yes to everything you said. And, um, that two hours that you're spending does directly impact you on your P&L. You just might not see it today, but it will show up in six, 12 months, 18 months down the line, so. Yeah. Yes, and yes, and yes. Amazing.

Forgiving Yourself And Finding Purpose

35:48

Now, I have got these, uh, conversation cards that I'm just gonna pick one. Ooh. Whoo! I know. I didn't know these were coming, by the way. No. So... They are a, um... Ooh, I like this one. Okay. So, so for those that are listening and not watching this audio, I've got conversation cards which are generic, which I've had created so that whoever uses this space can ask a question to their guest to finish off the, um, conversation. And my question is: What have you had to forgive yourself for? Ooh. That's deep, isn't it? That's so deep. Ooh. One of us has already cried in this session. No more. I know. Exactly. I'm gonna take a sniff too. Let me see how we take this conversation, right? All righty. I will be absolutely vulnerable out there, so yeah. All right, so It's a safe audience, I promise. Yes. She don't know where to find me, but my handle is somewhere there. I think, um, one of the key things, so One of the things that led me to where I am today is, um, I had a divorce. So, uh, marriage breakdown. Um, and during that period, it took me down quite a dark path, like, you know, intrusive thoughts, depression, all of that fun stuff, right? And part of the journey, there was a couple of things that got me back on track. Like, you know, one of them was, um, realigning with my faith. Spoke to someone, like I saw a therapist. Um, had a good community of friends around me, started volunteering, giving back, eating well, sleeping well, and hitting the gym. So we know a lot of that. But as part of that journey, like in my spiritual world, um, and with a therapist and the community around me, like giving back, um, I quickly st- I, I started asking myself the question around purpose. Why am I here? All of that fun stuff, right? And The depression, and I'll come back to that point because I, I realized I didn't answer your question. The depression came from the fact that the marriage breakdown, I felt I, I'd let a lot of people down. Mm-hmm. You know, my then ex-wife, my kids, and, um, yeah, it's, it's something which I thought growing up I was not gonna be in this situation. So that's what led me down the spiral, right? But then coming back to those three things, I s- I said five, but the three, you know, the faith, um, speaking to a therapist, and giving back. I found out that my purpose was helping people. That put a smile on my face, um, when I was able to put a smile on someone else's face. So again, it's not a plug for the business, but that's where the whole idea of me going back to uni, getting my post-grad, um, organizational psychology, how can I contribute to others? How can I put a smile on someone else's face? And to be fair, how can I continue to forgive myself for that situation that happened and for all the people that I put through, my kids and everyone? So I got to that point, you know, because I think I had to let go of that, forgive myself, live in a world where understanding that mistakes are not regrets. Mm-hmm. They're just lessons that we continue to learn from. So- Yeah hope I've answered your question. Yes, you have. Well done. No tears. Well done. No, good job. No tears. Good job. No tears. I'm crying on the inside right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. No, I mean, it, it's just, it's such a common journey for so many people and I just feel like, um, y- you know, I don't, I don't know if I said it before, but, y- um, in this session, but people are allowed to change in their lives. You, if you're a business owner, you're allowed to change your point of difference that you have. You've, you are allowed to change your relationships. Like, there is, like, we have created such expectations that we're meant to live one way for the entire journey of our whole life. Yeah. And, like, who says that, you know, I mean, yeah, who, i- you can have a different life in your 20s and your 30s and your 40s. I mean, ideally you don't wanna be hurting people along the way- Mm-hmm but it is okay to change. And I guess from a, if we bring it back to a business sense, it's okay to change, and it's all about the conversations and bringing in those conversations when you do want to so that nobody gets hurt as well. Yeah. And so that would probably be something that I just would want people to take away.

Proactive Tune-Ups And Where To Find Alan

40:37

Um, to finish off, I would love for you to do a little plug. Um, but I also just wanna challenge people that are listening that if you are a business that is not having leadership pain points- Maybe this is an opportunity for someone like Alan to come into the business. Like, we, again, we just naturally assume we only bring a consultant in when we- Things are going wrong. Yeah when things are going wrong. But how about we just go have that support when everything's going right? It's like, you know, we- but we do it in everything in life. Like, go to the doctor's when we're sick. Yep. Why don't we go to the doc- you know, to the doctor's when we're healthy? I'm due a checkup, by the way. I just thought about that. What's that? I'm due a checkup actually, by the way. Yeah. Well, I've got a friend who does a checkup every, um, every, her birthday. Okay. Every year, and that's, like, her reminder that she does. Yeah. But, like, we tend to just default to only doing things when there's a problem. So my challenge today is that, let's say you've got a fantastic business, everything's going right. Why not- Have a little tune-up in the coaching and leadership space, um, and have someone like Alan come into the business to, to do that, and to just give you another unbiased look at the business from someone who, you know, is, um, able to have a holistic look on your business. Just like I always harp on about annual investor audits, having an holistic view for your investors, Alan can do that for your business. So, um, where can people find you? Ash, that was far too kind of you- by the way. Um, yeah, so they can find me on our website, www.mporaconsulting.com, or you can find me on LinkedIn, Alan Mpora, M-P-O-R-A. Uh, how else can they find me? On Facebook, same name. Yes, so you can find me. So I think that is a really good point, and I haven't really... I might, I, I might take you around with me when I need to- kind of present myself. Like, uh, "What do you do?" "Ash, take over." Uh Well, we'll, we'll, we'll do a little snippet from the recording- and you can just share that along. Yeah. No, I'd rather take you along with me. No, um, yeah, i- you're absolutely right. So if things haven't gone wrong isn't the only... I mean, when things are going wrong isn't the only time to engage me. Sometimes you've got business owners who wanna take themselves out of the business, get more time back, you know, good time for us to start looking at your structures that you've got in place. Or sometimes you just wanna, you know, have that transition to stepping away, whatever that might look like. So, yeah, feel free. I'm here. I'm only a phone call away. Happy to help where I can. So- Amazing. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Ash. How can I be of value to you as well, Ash? Um, well, you have been an incredible value of time for me today because I've now got a podcast recording- out of a conversation. Yes. So that is the value that you have brought me because, actually, and do you know what? Let me just do a little, tiny little plug as well while we're, you know, still got the record button on. Um, but this is a really great example of, um, multitasking, dare I say, where not only am I catching up with a new friend, I'm having a good conversation about what he's doing, and he can find out more about me. We're recording it, then I will have some snippets from a content point of view. I'll, um, be able to turn it into a blog. Wow. You know what I mean? You can probably turn it into a blog- Yes, yes with the recording and transcript too, so now we've got that set up for the business. Um, so to me, like I love doing, uh, looking at opportunity in every conversation, and then not only for selfish reasons for, like, my content, but I'm still then sharing- Yeah hopefully some value to a wider community as well, where they would get some sort of insights from it. So- Lovely to be honest, like it's just the way to go, like- Yep With content and, um, and yeah, and opportunity and just always being, always looking out for it. Um, so yeah. Can I plug your book that's coming out as well? I haven't told anyone about the book. Oh, shit. Sorry. It's good, Brad. Sorry. Sorry. No, no, it's fine. If I've got an issue, I can edit it out. Um- Okay, good. We are looking forward to that book, so when it does come out, please grab it. Actually, I did say, didn't I- Yes at breakfast that I was going to also use this transcript for something. There you go. Thank you. That was- There you go actually a good reminder, for a book that I'm writing. Um, and I need to beef it up a little bit and, um, I will use that. Thank- good. I'm- Thank you for the reminder. Sorry for bursting that secret. Sorry. You literally are the only person I've told about it. Oh, shit. I'm sorry. Guys, you can trust me with your secrets. I'm not that bad.