Why Pickles Are Named Pickles And Other Real Estate Lessons

We sit down with Cassandra from Terrahaven Property Management to talk about what real leadership looks like when you’re managing people, properties, and constant curveballs. We dig into troubleshooting, training juniors, work-from-home change, and the home boundaries that keep burnout from swallowing your career. 

• Cassandra’s path through real estate roles and why property management sticks 
• Building trust by being a connector rather than pretending to be the expert in everything 
• Troubleshooting maintenance to avoid wasted call-outs and protect owner budgets 
• Making “I don’t know” acceptable so juniors ask better questions 
• Setting support structures in-office versus working from home 
• Leading with check-ins and cues instead of micromanaging 
• Blended family systems, boundaries, and avoiding silent expectations 
• Linking a stable home life to a better client experience and less burnout 
• Small habit changes that reset a bad day before it becomes a bad week 
• Why peer-to-peer learning at Rebar feels more useful than event overload 

If anyone is listening to this and would like to reach out to Cassandra, find her on Instagram as well and say hi 

This podcast is kindly sponsored by The Associates Co. 

The Associates Co provides fully trained professionals to assist you with scaling your property management department. They are ready to hit the ground running! Once a luxury, VA's are now a staple in every business, whether you are managing 5 properties or 500+

Head over to www.theassociatesco.com

This podcast is kindly sponsored by Longreach

Transcript

Welcome And Cassandra’s Path

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Amazing. So we have got the lovely Cassandra joining us today. And I purposely am holding off asking about you, Cassandra, because we we've met briefly, but I don't want you to have to repeat yourself off air and then on air. So we'll get straight into it. It's uh it's really, really lovely to have this chat with you because we were at a um coffee convo's the other week and I didn't get a chance to speak to you properly. So welcome. And um let's just get straight into it. Let us tell us a little bit about yourself, what you're doing now, where you're working, your position, where you were before, and all that jazz.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Yep, yep. So I started Terrah Haven property management end of last year. So it's very much in its infancy stage. I have been in the industry for almost 18 years. So I always joke, I'm like 50% real estate, 50% human, it's like half half. I'm that person where you're like, you're in real estate. And then you're like, yes. But yeah, no, I started when I was, I actually got my agents rep when I was 17, and I had to wait to turn 18 to actually get my certificate. So it's definitely, you know how people grow into it, like grow in a family and whatnot. I feel like I self-grew into it, if it makes sense. I could adopted myself into my own self-family property, like for real estate. But yeah, so basically I've been a director previously, I've I've done property management, I've I've been in a situation where I've, you know, been managing a portfolio of 260 properties. I've been a receptionist, I've been a sales agent, I've done a bit of everything. So I've got the opportunity to see all the aspects, I'm gonna say, of real estate. And I think property management, I was really drawn to property management because it's such a I feel there's so many different elements to it too. Like there's you've got the people who, you know, do the property management and you know, they're there to service the client, right? And then you've got the people who are, you know, the leaders who go, okay, I love this stuff. I want to just, you know, I want to learn everything about it. I want to help everyone, like I want to, you know, make people feel, you know, that they can pick up their phone and call me, which a lot of my clients do. Like they're like, yes, yeah, you know, that you need to do that, that's fine. Like, oh, how are you? Oh, sorry to bother you. Like, no, recall me. But yeah, I just think that, yeah, it's definitely for me something that like I was saying before, I genuinely like I'm not, I I don't go on TikTok or anything. I I go into like property management pages and I go, okay, like what what are the conversations happening? Like what's going on out there? Like I'm part of a B and I group as well, which I love because ultimately I think every other industry, like you it kind of there's a bit of a synergy there in many ways because they all impact each other, if that makes sense. So, you know, it's kind of like being able to service your clients at another level because you're like, Oh, I've got this guy who's really good. I see him weekly, I know he's gonna take care of you. And or you know, I've got a guy if you're not comfortable asking this conversation or having this conversation, sorry, let me just pick his brain for you, or you know, and just putting him in the direction of the right people because I think with property management, it's it's a job you kind of have to know because we don't really it's it's you do have to know everything in terms of property management and guidance and knowing where to put people in the right direction. But I think sometimes we do forget that we're not accountants, we're not, we're not builders, we're not any of that. So it's kind of like, look, I I don't know what the issue is here because I don't have the qualifications, but I I'm definitely I could definitely point you to someone who can, but yeah, so it's just like yeah, being able to help people and be a friend, and like yeah, just that's their asset, like they've worked hard to get that, and just you know, trying to then help grow other people in the industry and kind of go, okay, it's not that scary, like it it is, but it isn't, like, and it's just understanding that you know we're here to do a job, not just like you know, sometimes it's hard days when you've got difficult clients and things, but not even difficult, just you know, sometimes challenging, I'm gonna say, but understanding what that the root cause of that issue is too. I don't know, there's there's so much that I actually don't love. It's one of those jobs. I don't know. I I don't even know where to pinpoint what I love about it.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

So no, there's so many layers in that. But I mean, yeah, you're right. That you need to know enough to, but you don't need to know everything, but you need to know enough to be able to point them in the right direction or give, you know, take them 50% there. You know what I mean? Like you need to know enough of which contractor would be the best option. Like I've just had one just before I jumped onto this, where it was a washing machine that's not working, but then you've got to work out could it be the PowerPoint, or is it the washing machine? Do I send out the electrician or do I send out the washing machine repairer? And then the troubleshooting, so I'd have to know enough to be able to troubleshoot to at least work out which expert I need to send out for that. So I'm not wasting the client's money with a contractor that's not going to be able to fix it. So it's sort of like that.

Knowing Enough To Troubleshoot

SPEAKER_02 5:10

But it's really funny the way the universe works. And we have this podcast today because I we I send out an email to my members every Wednesday, not my members, my whole database every Wednesday. And the email, and I'm just bringing it up here so I can sort of go through a little bit with it, because the email was the competitive advantage no one talks about, but it's talking about the compound effect of admitted uncertainty. So when the I don't know becomes acceptable, because I think that there's a lot of people, it sort of says here each acknowledgement, each knowledge gap becomes a development opportunity, and each question becomes collaboration and each challenge becomes shape, not carried along. But what it was actually talking about that is it's okay to not know the answers, and it's okay to seek collaboration, like you said, going onto those Facebook pages and having a look and seeing, you know, what other problems people have got so we can learn from them. Like we are never and never should feel like we should know everything. And it's really funny when you get juniors in the office and they feel like they, you know, they've got to. I had one who had a really tricky situation and she was taking a big confidence kit because she didn't know it and she just felt like she wasn't doing the best thing for her clients. And I had to say to her, listen, I've been doing it for 25 years and I've never gone through this. Like this has nothing to do with your experience. This is something that is new that someone with five, 10, 20 years' experience never has gone through. And I think that juniors need to be reminded of that. That there, and I would say I've probably had in the last 12 months more curly situations than I've ever had in my whole career. So, and and you probably, I think you're saying, you know, similar with, you know, you, your assistants or juniors or people that you've worked through that younger, they do come with a little bit of, yeah, their confidence not high enough. And I don't know why they would expect to know everything.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

And I think, but I do think it's just I think it's a combination of things. I think it's, you know, there's the there's sometimes that the depend every real estate is different. It depends on the training, but it also depends on the person just saying, like, hey, I've got to like just so you know, like I told like this is gonna be like a a right, like a crazy rhyme for you. And kind of like I was saying before, you know, with with builders, like they have a four-year apprenticeship and they can go, I'm a first-year apprenticeship, I'm a second year. Whereas, like, once you're a property manager and you're wearing that title, I feel like clients go, Well, you are the property manager, you should know this. But it's kind of having it's teaching, I think, young women a confidence to saying, hey, like it looks like firstly, it's teaching them the confidence to ask questions, it's not about knowing it's without asking the right questions, I would say, and having the confidence that confidence to do that. Like, hey, like Brenton, like I understand this is a you know stressful situation. Can I just go through a few things with you just so I can identify the best person to send out? So I really don't want to, you know, being new myself, I really don't want to send out the wrong person. I'd just like to ask a few questions if that's okay, instead of just them, you know, just I guess having the confidence to it's not even sounding silly, it's actually getting your information. Like it's like, you know, when you take, when you list a property, you're not just gonna list a property, you want it, you want more information. Like, what am I what am I dealing with right now so that you can make an informed decision? It's teaching younger people that it's so healthy to ask questions so that you can make an informed decision. And like I was saying, like a my new assistant, I just said, just it and it was actually it's it's really interesting. I said to her, I said, just so you know, like you're gonna get to 12 months and still think that you don't know anything. And like myself, I've been saying, yeah, almost 18 years, and she was just like, Oh, thank goodness, like she just was she was working herself up so hard, and it was just like you know, if people don't say that to these people during their first year, saying, Hey, give yourself a break, like it's hard as long as your heart's in it and you actually are trying to learn, you actually care and you and you want to learn, you're gonna do fantastic, you're gonna do better than most people, really. But yeah, just kind of saying it's like I feel like a lot of people put pressure on these first year PMs, especially if they're you know, they're already understaffed and they go, Hey, here's a here's a portfolio, like there you go. And then there's this this this lack of you know, like training, but then also, oh, we're here for you, and it's like, how do I handle the situation? And you know, I I confuse my soul. So then that's where you know situations can go wrong, but it's the environment that the person didn't be able to go, hey, sorry, this is the 50th time I called you today, Cass. But what's this? And that's like good, tell me, because otherwise, if you didn't make those 50 calls, that's 50 issues that didn't get sorted today. So then keep calling me and having the confidence to ask me and not sound silly, like because there is there are so many different answers to so many different questions that seem the same.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Yeah. How do you and what do you see? Because you're based in Vic, aren't you? Yeah. How are you seeing this play out with younger people with regards to working from home, working in an office? Like what I don't know what your setup is, but like what would be your advice and thought around protecting the

Admitting Uncertainty And Training Juniors

SPEAKER_02 10:35

ones, the younger ones that maybe need that support? Because immediately I think to myself, gosh, they all need to be working in the office together so they can ask those quick questions. But I know that that's not something that is going to, you know, that's not a common thing, maybe anymore. Like, but like, what's your thoughts around what's happening in your area with that?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Well, I think that ultimately, like, you know, you being a director, myself being a director, you we're running around to different things all the time. And you know, you you've got someone who's just started, and I think initially it's just like really giving that commitment to be there for them and try and guide them through, allow them to call you when they can. But I think it's really healthy to be in an office environment just so that they do have someone else there that they can ask questions as well. Like for me, obviously, I'm in my infancy stage, so I'm quite small. But I think having that support and going, hey, like having a senior property manager or having a department manager, it's like, hey, I've got a bit of a situation here. Can you help me out? What do I do? Versus, you know, you're at home kind of going panicking to make that phone call. Whereas, you know, I think it's and I think really, you know, when you are a senior property manager or a department manager, it's going, it's kind of picking up on the cues from your team members and going, She's gone a bit quiet, or you know, something, you know, but what's going on? Do you need any help? Even just checking in, even if they look fine, just say, Hey, how's it going? Have you got anything that you are stuck on, or you know, just inviting the question as well so that they don't feel like they're bothering you. Yeah. So I think, yeah, I think it would, I think it is healthy. Obviously, you know, everyone is different and and each situation's different, but I do think initially it is healthy. Like for some people, they like quiet, they're like, okay, I've got a lot of admin to do and I want to be at home. But I think that's for the people who know what they're doing and they want to smash out their admin, not the people who are trying to learn their admin.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Yeah. How do you think with um you guys are gonna have that new legislation coming in with the two days work from home?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Look, I think I think it'll be fine because like it it it's it depends on how you structure it. Like, you know, working from home, like what does that actually look like? Does it mean that you're just on the office? Like, does it mean that you are on the road? Like, because you know, we can be at the office, but then we're on the on the road as well. Like it it's it's one I I think it would be okay as long as there's like team meetings that would say in the morning or some sort of like connection, like not even just like like this meeting kind of face to face. I think it's more personal and it's like having instead of having a weekly meeting, maybe you need to have a work from home meeting when you can like check in with everyone and go, okay, how's your day going? What's going on? But you know, there might be people who go, I don't want to work from home, you know.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Do you do you think so? Like, let's I I hadn't actually thought of that, but so if it's if the if employees have the right to work from home two days a week, okay, and picture I'm a real estate agent in VIC, I've got a property manager who works Monday to Friday, and every Tuesday and Thursday she does inspections out on the road. And so I could and I know they these details might not be out yet, but I'm just wondering, as a business owner, could I say to that staff member Tuesdays and Thursdays when you're out doing your inspections, you don't need to come to the office. So technically they're your work from home days. Is that a possibility, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 14:07

I I don't know, to be honest, because in the and I guess the hard thing as well, and you know, I'm just being honest here. Like if I've got, you know, you've got like my partner and I, we have a blended family of six kids, right? And you know, sometimes it's nice to go, I've got an admin day and I got I've got the peace and quiet, and I I I want to work from home, and then I'm gonna get doled up when I do my inspections and my meetings and things like that, and then pop into the office, get my keys. Do you know what I mean? So it's kind of nice to be able to have the I think it'll be I I I'm not against it. I think it when you're starting, it is more healthy to be in office, but it's just it's adapting to changes. It's like everything like we in life, really, we always have to adapt to the changes and okay, well, what's working, what's not working? It's like, okay, well, we're gonna let you work from home two days a week. And then, you know, monitoring like not like micromanaging or anything like that, but just you know, going, okay, where's our rentaries at? Where's our maintenance at? Okay, something's not working. Do we need to have morning meetings on your work from home days? Like, what is it that's not working? Like, how can we help support you at home? Like, in terms of you know, having do you want us to help you with like Trello? Do you want us to get you like some, you know, things that help you focus when you're at home? Like, I think it's just kind of adapting to each person's situation. Some people might work better from home. So, you know, it might be a benefit like for a company in some cases, and then others, it's like I can't get on to my team member, and you know, putting some rules in place, like you know, if you're working from home, we need to still be able to contact you. But do you think that there's business owners out there that would be freaking at this idea? I think they would be. I think that would be a a potential solution, and it's definitely something to be discussed because I think that there would be a lot of people going, okay, well, you can, you know, they're you're like that's your work from home days, but you've got routines, so you're working from home, you're going back and forth from there. But you know, in saying that, like again, it depends on the person. Like, you might have they might go, Okay, I live in you know, 30 minutes away from the office, but I have all my routines that are in close proximity to me, so I can just quickly pop out, come back, and then do what I gotta do, and I'm in the area anyway. So, but yeah, I do think that there will be some people who will be working their way around it, yeah. Um, which I think also ultimately comes down to those people kind of asking themselves what kind of leaders they want to be too.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Yeah, I think it's going to be very, very interesting to see to see those people freak out. I mean, it's it's only yeah, I mean, you're really open, so it's different for you, but there's gonna be people that that are stubborn and and it'll be very interesting. I'll uh I'll watch the little online circus when it all happens.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Oh, yeah, I think that's a thing you're gonna have, but you know what? It's I think it's gonna bite some people that kind of do it the wrong way because you know, you if you've got a team member who's actually a really, really good worker and is like, this is so unfair. I really want to, I wanna, I wanna have at least one day at home where I'm not out on the road doing my routines. Like, I'll like I'd love to get this flowbooker on and do some, you know, folding on my lunch break and then smash out the same amount of work that I would if I was at the office with less distractions, you know, that could potentially mean you're losing that person because they're going, Well, you don't respect me as an employee, or like I don't feel, you know, valued here. So I guess it's it's it's really, I think, about being open with your team members and going, hey, what do you want to do? Like, how do you feel about this? Like, obviously, again, there's gonna be people that aren't like that, but I think they need to think about the consequences if that's the case, because people are gonna be talking about it and they're gonna hear how other team members are supported and they're gonna go, okay, well, I've seen that the brass can be greener on the other side, and this and yeah, it's just yeah, it's it's I don't think those people that are going to be very self-reflective.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

I don't think people that are stubborn with it have the emotional capacity to self-reflect.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

I yeah, yeah, yeah. I I understand where you're coming from. I do, I do. I'm just I'm like living in like hopeful world of like, can we have all rainbows and unicorns?

SPEAKER_02 18:35

And I'm just like thinking nah, nah, you're like nah, sweetheart. That's gonna be a big issue. And yeah, just a fun fact. I'm also in I have a blended family with six kids too. I don't know if you you knew that. So I didn't. So tell tell me just because if it's all right, tell me that because I'm fascinated by it.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

So you guys, you live together and you got all the kids full-time, or so we got three full-time, and then then it's fortnightly. So I've got my partner's kids. So it's like honestly, in modern day. So my partner is actually a licensed builder, so we have a construction company too. So it was almost like matchmade in heaven, we're like three kids, real estate, building, and it's really good because I like I'm very lucky because I'm a bit spoiled now because I'm like, hey, what's the issue here? Like, you're a builder, you know everything. So like I can, it's it's really, really good. And you know, when there's emergency, it's like, well, that's a you problem now. So you can go out there and think, I'm joking, I'm not that mean. Um, but it's it's getting a really good understanding of like even like I sat down with him, and we've got I will get back to that question. Um, but we um we worked out like his haven safeguard where it covers a whole bunch of common maintenance issues, but it's kind of like a with it's it's safeguarding them from like you know, just to door handles, like just those really irritating little maintenance things that come up, but you know, they have a big price tag, so it's kind of going, well, uh $9.95 a week, which is about 400 and something, maybe 500. Don't know how much of that, yeah. You know, if you have one call out that is a bigger, a bigger thing, like you know, propping up events and then also having to do like two items, like you're covered for the whole year, but it there's like a list of 40 different things. And we sort of sat down. I even worked with one

Work From Home Rules And Support

SPEAKER_00 20:20

of my clients and said, What do you think of this list? Like, do you reckon and there's something like, Oh, I don't really think that happens much, and then he's like, You should add this, and you should like like washes, tap washers, and just leaking taps and like a bit of caulking in the shower, there's like some it's required, or door handles, like not the locks, because that's I feel like that's a locksmith thing, but basically repairs or like makes safes in a way. So if there's a storm, like put wood up against the window, because with a make safe for something like that in an emergency, I've been charged like I think the minimum I got charged was $250. And it's like just for just for just to have the window boarded up, so let alone the actual glass itself. So it's like you've got two things. So it's like, well, you're covered here, we're just gonna we'll get someone out, we'll just get them to just prop that up for you or like clean, like make it safe for you basically. So there's that benefit there, but that kind of came a little bit after, and that's where I rebranded his company to Terra Haven, which Terra representing Earth, and then Haven, so like ground is strong foundation, and then Haven is in like sanctuary, your home, which is what you want. Yeah, so it's like I wanted it to be special and have um meaning, and then I'll now taglines care in every corner and purpose in every step. So it's kind of like I see it like a house, and then it's like you know, we got care within the whole home, and like what we're doing, and then we've got purpose in everything we're doing. So, like when we're asking certain questions, or we're like, hey, let's think about doing this, or have you thought about this? And you know, even when it comes to floorboards, if you're doing some reno's, like you know, you're gonna probably get about 20 30 or more a week, like just from doing a full, like making the whole place feel brand new, and you're gonna make that fast. In like two, three, four years. So it pays itself off, but it's it's gonna make the property worth more. It's just those like been those smart suggestions, but back to family. Sorry, I got so sidetracked. So we yeah, so we have my kids full-time. So we've got all that, we've got two 10-year-olds, two six-year-olds, a recently five-year-old, and a recently four-year-old. So five boys, one girl.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Oh, amazing. I um so ours, uh when we first met, they were I think eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen. So, like, like you know, one after the other. And we I how do I say this? We live we lived together for four years, and then as the kids got a little bit older, then it got a little bit more difficult. And when they got into their teenage years, we worked out that we would be better off living separately with the kids just so they could go through their high school years and all of that. But keep in mind it was a little bit different because we had them, he's got his full time as well. So we've got all the kids full-time, so it's quite a lot for you know, 12 days on with all six kids becoming teenagers and then only two days off. I guess so. It was hard, and then and then having teenagers with strong personalities, which and being the opposite, which was three girls and three boys, and boys I just feel like so much easier. But that was a little bit of a a clash with with the girls. So it's um so yeah, so we're together, but we're still but we're more separate with the living arrangements, and then when the kids are back out of their teenage years, we'll reunite. Well, we are together still, but you know, we'll re-reunite the living arrangements. So but I yeah, just always get fascinated by people's structure and how they do it because things are so unconventional these days, and and I think there's just so many different ways of having relationships and you know, in personal, you know, personal situations as well. And it's just always I yeah, I'm just always fascinated. So when you said that, I was like, oh, I'm gonna ask the question.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

I guess that's the thing, like a lot of people don't know, like there's there's the the the incredible parts of blending a family, right? But there's also so many difficulties because you have so many different personalities and then so many different upbringings, and so many different, like we got it, it's like trying to find that common ground where you're like, okay, what's the rules for everyone? Like, you know, it's yeah, and then it's like you know, me being how I am, I'm like, oh, I don't want to yell at them, that's not my job. So, you know, and then you've got your kids that are like, Oh, you favor them, you don't yell at them. And I was like, Well, you know the rules here, honey. So, you know, it's just um, but then yeah, we've just started to just do we just try to just go everyone when you hear the same rules for everyone, like that's it, but they are younger, so it's a bit easier in terms of going, like, well, you're not getting ice cream tonight. Whereas at the teenager would be like, I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

So it's a little bit different. Yeah, and and and really interesting. So I had it I came in with um sort of the opposite where we had we were very, very strict, and again, it's maybe a little bit different because they were all full time, but a little very different in that I we absolutely did not touch any type of discipline in terms of like if there was something that I noticed, I would go, hey, you need to go sort that out. And I would tell him if he hadn't seen it, but I wouldn't get involved interfere. And the second thing, and and it sounds quite unlike a bit unemotional, and and I know that's it's a little bit unconventional, but it just worked for us by keeping that completely separate. But we also made sure the kids knew for us that there were different family rules. So, like I've got different family rules and he's got different family rules, and we actually that worked actually some weirdly worked really well, and so they knew that there were different family rules. So that it was probably maybe when it came down to like even like dishwasher, for example, he insisted that he wanted his kids to to do the dishwasher because that was the rule, and it wasn't one of my rules. So if he that's what he wants, well then that's fine if that's what he wants, you know, them to do. Or if we like it was really hard, like with holidays, because I love taking holidays with my kids, and that was just something that was just like, well, that's our family rule and and my family values, and that's what we did. So we tried to actually probably have more of a relationship, like us two were in the relationship, not the children, and never forced that on for us to all be in a relationship together. So it was it, yeah, it it worked, worked for us. And but then also like as someone who is a busy businesswoman, and the way that I saw it was that you know, I'm running a business and I and you know, you've chosen to have your kids full-time, but that's not all gonna fall on me because I am I came in very even in terms of like what we've got to offer and and you know, in terms of our where we both are in our businesses. And it was like, I'm happy to help. So like even when it came to like bed sheets and things like that to be washed, I would, I would, and you know, this is people are gonna think, oh my god, Ash, you're so mean. But please, I promise you. No, you're good at no. I'm I'm listening, I'm taking notes. I would do my kids' sheets. And if he wanted me to do his kids' sheets, absolutely, I have no problem at all. But he has to ask me and say, Ash, would you mind doing my kids as well? Yeah, absolutely, no problems at all. Where I didn't want it to become was an expectation that I was going to be taking over the whole household and responsible for everybody. And so while it sounds tough, it was something that we it worked really, really well for us. And like I said, I was happy to do whatever he needed me to do. If he said to me, Ash, would you mind cooking dinner every night this week? No problems at all, that's fine. But as long as it's asked and it wasn't set as that expectation. And then same with holiday care and school holidays. If he said to me, Ash, I've got a really busy day with appointments, would you mind staying home with the kids? Absolutely, no worries at all. But don't assume that because school holidays, I'm working from home all week.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah, because it's so funny you say that because I I agree because I like I like we obviously like I've just got my kids full time, so it's it's like every fortnight like weekend we have all of them. So it's it's it's very different, but it would be very challenging to even go through those conversations. But I agree because after a while, like if someone just expects something, the appreciation gets lost along the way. And when someone's asking, it's like, yeah, not a problem. Thank you for asking. Like, I'm glad that you know you asked. Like, I think when you're someone's asked physically asking for something, there's that appreciation going, I appreciate that you're doing that, and there's that acknowledgement. And I think that's so important because that's where, like, as business owners and mums, we get burnt out, and it's like we get cranky and we're like, why is that listening? And it's like, why is like, why are you so mad? And so it's like, um, because I just cleaned like this whole like five bedrooms and bed sheets and six, eight people's worth of clothes, and I fed the puppies because we have puppies, and we've got chickens because they're crazy people, and yeah, it's just bit, yeah, like we we have luckily they're outside, like the very outside. We've got like too many club bikes and motorbikes and trampoline and a we we bunnings had this really cool like water park that you can just blow up in summer, and we're like, we're not spending, we're not taking six kids to to like Umbio World or to even just like anywhere because it's too expensive. So we're like, you know what? Party pods in the oven, we'll blow it up, you guys go outside, and I'm just I'll be chilling inside just doing what I do.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I think that like in property management and business, you're just under so much stress and you're constantly needed and not appreciated in the workplace. Like people, like a lot of burnout in property management, I do actually believe comes from personal at home and the stresses we put ourselves under. And I think that if we this goes for everyone, if you can create a really wholesome home life where there are boundaries and you don't feel like you're doing everything for everyone, because the problem is at work, you have to do everything for everyone because that's your job. You get paid for it because there's a problem they call you. But you and so, yes, you might not be able to control that as much, but in your home life, like try and get some boundaries in place because I do believe a happy home life does equal a much happier client experience because your mood's better, and so value needs to be put on that.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's like I guess that comes down to just you know, I guess healthy habits and just understanding yourself, and like that's a whole nother thing. Like, I think that you know, having self-awareness and going, okay, I'm a bit burnt out, like, or whatever that looks like. Like, I've got crystals all over my house because I love crystals and I just it's they've got good energy, and you know, even having a clean house, I've got my cleaning days, and like you know, nighttime I make like sandwiches. That my son, as well, like my elders, he like he knows when there's mornings where it's a bit more like I've got children with ADHD, and like it's it's it's bouncing off walls,

Blended Family Boundaries And Expectations

SPEAKER_00 31:10

it's like bouncy balls. Like, imagine just the first thing they uh look, I walk out my bedroom, it's just like every direction, and it's just like, but then it's like five different mood swings in the morning, and it's like, okay, cool. I'm need to put makeup on for like two seconds. Can you just give me a minute? But then yeah, Maddie's pretty good. He'll go, Okay, Mom, I'll make the sandwiches, it's okay, they're going crazy. And then, like, you'll get the socks and stuff. But it's just kind of like working as a team and just kind of going, look, guys, I don't want to get mad. I really don't want to raise my voice in this morning. I want to have the calm energy, I want to get in the car, let's let's have a good morning, hey. And yeah, I guess sometimes it's communicating with your family and going, okay, I know they're my kids, but this is these are really good. Like, for example, like my son Maddie, if I drop something, like if one of the kids drops something or anything happens, he's like, That's okay, Mama, got it. Like, especially when he can sing I'm really busy, or he'll like put bags in there, and you know, I think like I was a single mum for three and a half years with all three kids, which I do think plays a role in that because he was kind of like my little man of the house, and he could pick up on going like and if if anyone, like any of the kids get cranky, be like, cranky at me, and he'll be like, Don't talk to mum like that, like he's he's very good like that. But but I think it does, I think when you can kind of go, yeah, like okay, I'm mom, you know how to go, you know, hide, like, don't cry in front of your children, hide your emotions and stuff. It's not about like not hide. I feel like I think that gets misconstrued in terms of like, I think you need to be able to communicate with your children, and instead of this being a business woman mum where you're like, Oh, I'm home now, don't talk to me, I've got a headache. It's just like, hey guys, like today was big. Let's all you know, put in tonight, let's all like let's do this together. I want everyone to, you know, buzz when I tell them. So food in the sink, wash your hands, in the bar. Like, let's just let's keep it simple tonight, you know? So it's just kind of giving them that guidance to say, I could lose my could lose my trip tonight, even though you guys don't listen. I'm right on the edge.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Um this close. I I had an issue yesterday, and I don't very I very rarely lose my call, but yesterday I did lose my call because I had prepped one of my kids the night before. Don't muck around for school the next morning, I've got a really important 8:30 da-da-da. And I got mucked around and I had to, yeah, I was running like this appointment, and it just set my whole day up bad. And and I may have said something that I shouldn't have said. And so when I got home, I went in there and I apologized and I said, listen, that should I shouldn't have said that. That was pretty rude, and you know, it accepted that that was wrong, and then sorted that out. But then the next morning, this which was this morning, I just was like, I need to just be a little bit more organized. Like I'm just feeling like there was I was feeling a little bit out of control. So as I know this sounds like so simple, but I it was something as little as the night before. I got my bowl out and I put my little porridge packet in there and the spoon, and I just made it all simple and my cup with my tea bag already in it, so that I could just wake up straight in the morning, go there, quickly look after myself, have a tea and have you know something for breakfast. And then I I was he wasn't at school, so I we we went for a drive to a coffee conversations actually, and I just said, you know, I feel so much better today. I had a really good sleep and I, you know, got up and had breakfast and I just I just feel clearer. And and he said, he goes, Oh, maybe you were just feeling like feeling like you needed to be more organized from yesterday. I said, I did. I said, but I feel so much better, but it was good because it sort of showed him that I had to make a little change to my day because I recognized it. Yeah, and then I made this change and now I feel much better, and I'm gonna try and stay on that. So trying to teach him to that, you know, yeah, you can make little improvements so that that doesn't become a circle or a whole bad week. It was just a bad day yesterday, and and today's gonna, yeah, I'm gonna be a bit more organized. So it was it's nice to have those teachings with the kids when that happens.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Yeah, definitely, definitely. And I and I can't think like like I think that's I think it's healthy to also go, okay, like I lost my call, but it's like okay, something now has to change. Like and that's like it it sometimes bad things aren't bad things, they're just something drastic for change. And and like I always say, like in life, you always have a protection or a redirection. And you know, for example, like if you get a flat tire or you've lost your car keys or something like that, and it sounds crazy, but like I it's happened to me where I I could not find my like car keys for the life of me, but if they were where I thought they were, this car like lost control, like literally just down the road. So it was like for me, that felt like a protection, and then like because nothing drastic changed in my life from losing my keys or a flat tire, nothing drastic needs to change. So it was just like okay, I don't know what was down the road. So it's like okay, that was a protection, so there was a reason behind it, and then you know, but if something happens, like you lose your job or you know, you lose your cool, you're like, this is a redirection right now, okay. Let's let's break this down and see what's going on here, and you know, try and figure out what could be the reason why, or what you know, and and then it's funny because a lot of the time you're like, Oh, this is way better anyway. Like at first, you're like, Oh my gosh, what this is so bad, and then you're like, Oh, hang on, no, it's not. This actually is like kind of working for me.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, you have you have to do that because there's so many curve balls you get thrown in this job. You have to always look at the at the yeah, the reason and treat everything yeah as a learning, even the tricky situations that come up with clients. Last thing for you, can you tell me about Reba? Was that the first one that you went to? Or have you been to it before? Yeah, it was. It's the best reason that's one of my crazy things.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

I've never been there. Oh, I loved it. I was just like, I was like, what? I was like, this is because like you know, you go different. I've been in so many funny events, it's insane. But it was just so much more personal, and just hearing like everyone's perception on things and input, and just like you know, where people are getting stuck, but it's also like it also I don't know if you're the same as me, but like you get this like itch you like even there's the like you want to help people more, I guess. Like, you go, wow, like there are so many like people who are struggling right now. There are so many employees that feel unsupported, you're like, Well, what can we do to change this? Like, I was having a few chats with Sarah Cicotta, and I was just like, I could even see it in her, like you can see it in her face, she's so passionate, and she's just like she was almost like you could almost look like a heartbreaker. She's like, Oh my gosh, we need to fix this. Like, what can we do? How can we change this? But yeah, it just it but it's also really good with like just I don't know, just you're gonna laugh. I like I had this question of the day, which is so Tanelle, she invited me, so she actually had a fair ticket and she like messaged me and she's like, Oh, do you wanna do you wanna come? And it's funny how the universe works because I was like, Oh, I've got a routine inspection with this client, and I you know, I don't want to like it's it's you know, like I I've always been there for them. And she messaged late at night, I think it was on the Wednesday night, and then I like jumped in my car, and then the client messaged and like, oh, can we reschedule? And I was like, Oh, I can come. I was like, Oh my gosh. Um so yeah, but like it was, and um, it was just yeah, there's a lot of I had a might you might be gonna answer the question, it's such a silly thing, so not pan related, but it's just literally how my mind worked. She she went to go give me a pickle from her food because that's just what you know your friends do, give you pickles, which I do not like pickles. But I was just like, actually, that's a that's I'll I wonder there, like, because you know, you think about pickled onions, you got pickled everything. Why is it that the pickled cucumber's got the title pickled? Like, why is that the ultimate pickled? Do you want what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 38:46

No, I don't know. No, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Like, you got pickled onions, yeah. A pickle is a pickled cucumber. So you've got all different types of pickled food, including the cucumber, but why is that the pickled one? Like, why is that just pickled, not pickled cucumber?

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Oh, oh, just cod

Burnout Proofing With Better Home Systems

SPEAKER_02 39:05

pickled.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Oh yeah. Like, why did that get the ultimate pickled name?

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Hold on, you know what? Stay on that. Let's let's stay right there because I'm gonna put that into the cord and we can we're gonna find this out here right now.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Because because I literally was like, and I and everyone's like, that's I never thought about it. Like, and I I hadn't, but it was only because my girlfriend was cruel enough to try and offer me a pickle.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Hold on, that's Claude. Okay, all right, let's have a look what Claude says. It says Was that one of the questions at Rebar, or was that just one of the questions you and Tanil had on the way?

SPEAKER_00 39:37

No, that was me at lunch because I got a bit curious.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Okay, all right, here we go. So it says great question, but the answer is a bit of a linguistic journey because the word pickle actually comes came first before it was ever attached to cucumbers. It comes from the Dutch word pickle or German, meaning a spice brine or salt solution. So originally pickle was just meant the liquid or the process for preserving. But when cucumbers became the most commonly pickled vegetable in English speaking countries, the cucumber kind of hijacked the word entirely. And over time, a pickle stopped meaning something pickled and just started meaning a pickled cucumber by default. So technically everything is poor cucumber. So technically every pickled thing is a is just pickle, but cucumber was just so dominant in that category that it claims the whole word word for itself. So just maybe because it's the dominant, maybe because it's the dominant pickle original, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Which I'd say to differ. I feel like pickle learning the better.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

But each their own, you know. Great question. But yeah, no, rebound's one of my favorite things. Obviously, I agree to the one in WA, and it's um it's my I I'm really big on peer-to-peer learning. I think that with events like events are fantastic, they serve their purpose. You've got, you know, speakers that you can learn from 100%. But I also feel like there is, I mean, and I I say this and I'm involved in events. So I I people will be like, well, why are you saying it, Ash? Because you host events. But it's it's true, and I'm mindful of this when hosting that quite often events can be there's that you can either learn from them or you can get motivation from them. And when we sometimes can get a little bit of event overload, I and or if someone's getting a bit of FOMO, what I always say to them is, do you currently have a big to-do list of things to do and work on? Or are you needing some inspiration for something and you're needing to keep on moving forward? So my operations manager, for example, she would have it, she's already got a big to-do list. So I'd be like, Well, you really don't probably need to go to an event because all you're gonna do is add things onto that to-do list. So you would work through everything that you've been wanting to implement. Like if you've got an implementation list, you should be actioning that before going and adding more stuff into your brain to do it. It's just too much overwhelm because you know what? The the event's gonna be there next year. Yeah, it's gonna unfortunately in real estate, it is a lot of the same content that just gets circulated around. So you are going to learn that thing again. But I just feel like if you've already got an implementation list, you should try and be super focused on that and not go and just add more to it by just going to another event. But Rebart is a little bit different because in that peer-to-peer learning, I think, is where everyone gets value because it's relatable. It's people that you that are in your like currently in your position or maybe experience what you have had. And unfortunately, there are speakers around that don't that have maybe been out of that day-to-day operations for a while and aren't experiencing the today problems, like physically experiencing the phone calls, the personalities, the stuff. Like you're sort of they're sometimes teaching what they experienced five years or 10 years or 15 years ago in the business. It's completely different. So I would rather hear from you or someone else, like to tell me what are what are juniors like at the moment, or tell me like how are you dealing with this? Like that's that's how we learn and peer-to-peer. I mean, I I say not that I oh I like two plugs on here, but the these

Reba And The Power Of Peer Learning

SPEAKER_02 43:30

podcasts are a great free option for peer-to-peer learning because we learn from each other um just through conversation. Coffee and conversations are a free way for peer-led learning as well. So if someone's listening to this today and maybe didn't get to go to rebar or maybe you don't have one in your area, coffee conversations are like a mini rebar, you know, like in terms of the conversation. And so you've got that opportunity. And then again, events hold their purpose, but we get a lot from um our people, you know, from people. That you're sitting with, but I think Reba is so lovely because everyone gets the opportunity to speak, and that's really, really good. That everyone gets the opportunity, doesn't matter who you are, whether no one no one knows whether you've got one year or 20 years experience, you've all got the right to say, you know, what problems you're experiencing. And I think that's nice.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

It's like it was such a nice, like I had the warm fuzzies after that. Like I was just like the amount of hugs I had, I was like, oh my gosh, I don't want to leave. But yeah, like everyone was just and everyone's so supportive, and it's just like like it's just such an open space for everyone to just kind of and and that was what I loved. Like people could, you know, put a situation, and it was just like it was just handled in such a like just such a kind manner. It wasn't like, you know how sometimes on like your Facebook pages and stuff, it's like, what would you do that for? And it's like, oh, you know, like it's so rude, and you're like, okay, they asked me a question because I need help. Like, and I felt like Reba was just like this real-time like help where like everyone just got together and we're like, okay, we got some problems in the industry, we got some great things in the industry, like, let's let's break it down, like you know, let's like bounce off each other and go, okay, what are you struggling with? And it's like, okay, well, I'm struggling with this. And it's like, well, I know how to handle that. Do you know what I mean? So it's like just kind of like literally collaborating at such a like a like big level, but in a kind way, we're all like just trying to lift the standard in the industry and just kind of like make everyone better, and just you know, just because ultimately it helps everyone at hand, it helps the clients, it helps the renters, it just gives better understanding, better processes. Like, how can we keep these? How can we, you know, protect our owners? How can we make sure that the property's safe? How can we, you know, make sure everyone's feeling heard and you know, how can we make sure we filling our own cup? Like, you know, how and it's just yeah, it's just it was you know so beautiful just to see everyone just like so willing to just put in and go, okay, hey, and it wasn't like, hey, this is what I do, like I'm so good. It was more like, you know, it was just really helpful information.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

Yeah, but I think as well, like those those types of events, they only attract people that do genuinely want to, you know, give back and and you know, and listen as well. So the people that have a different type of personality where she probably wouldn't be drawn to an event like that anyway. So you'd sort of do just by default get the right people in the room because they know, but it's yeah, I've I've heard I could, I mean, the the guys that run it are fantastic, but I heard got some great stuff with Vic. So I'm glad you got to enjoy one because they um are really lovely. So amazing. Well, so lovely to chat. I feel like um, yeah, we we got our our belated coffee conversations chat out of the way. So it was good to connect with you and and see you as well in in your own in your own space in Victoria. So I I will make sure that we catch up next time I am back as well. So um lovely connecting with you. And um and if anyone

How To Reach Cassandra

SPEAKER_02 47:05

is listening to this and would uh like to reach out to Cassandra, what is your best way to contact you? Are you a bit more on Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Bit of everything. Like I'm um uh like probably Instagram or even Facebook, whatever's whatever you like. Like I answer my phone, I answer my messages, email, like just come online. You know, that's for Sandra Terrahaven, real estate, ask real estate agents are pretty easy to find.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

I know, I know you just have to Google, Google a name and you come up everywhere. So amazing. If anyone wants to reach out to Cassandra, um find her on Instagram as well and say hi. And and if anyone wants to be a guest, please send me through a little message and let me know because I always love finding out more about more about everyone and and what's happening in your world as well. So it was lovely to to connect with that. So thank you, and I will speak to you real soon. Yeah, thank you for having me. Bye.