PM Collective - The ART of Property Management
The Art of Property Management is where the real conversations happen. The ones about leading without enough support, building portfolios and careers, and staying relevant in an industry that doesn't slow down for anyone.
Each episode, Ashleigh Goodchild brings her 25+ years of on-the-ground experience and some of the sharpest minds in the industry to talk about what it actually takes to build a property management business that lasts. The challenges, the director dynamics, the moments that nearly broke you, and the ones that changed everything.
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www.pmcollective.com.au
PM Collective - The ART of Property Management
Tenant Education That Builds Trust
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We talk with Jaleesa Paine about why tenant education is the missing lever in property management and how small, consistent support builds trust that pays off for years. We share practical ways to help renters with money stress and first home buyer goals while improving the reputation of property managers one interaction at a time.
• Jaleesa background across real estate, mortgage broking, community housing and first home buyer coaching
• why first home buyers need education and financial literacy support
• how first home buyers look different now and why many buy later
• ways to ask tenants about future plans without making it awkward
• tenant newsletters as a simple value-add channel
• real examples of building trust at inspections and during conflict
• community housing lessons on arrears support and payment plans
• communicating in the tenant’s preferred channel such as text
• the “cup” and “love bank” idea for earning goodwill
• a tenant care toolkit with gifts, cards and purposeful resources
• Jaleesa Money Lesson Series children’s books and how they spark family money talks
Website: www.jaleesapaine.com
First Home Buyer Readiness Audit: avaiable here
Instagram: @jaleespaine
Detector Inspector | Safer Homes
This podcast is kindly sponsored by The Associates Co.
The Associates Co provides fully trained professionals to assist you with scaling your property management department. They are ready to hit the ground running! Once a luxury, VA's are now a staple in every business, whether you are managing 5 properties or 500+
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Rolling Recording And Real Talk
SPEAKER_01I've got the uh my phone over there doing like a behind the scenes thing as well of us, so I can send that to you later too.
SPEAKER_00Excellent. Well, I've already pressed record, so people are going to be privy into uh into the behind the scenes. So and and I I'm literally uh going to continue because people that know me know that I don't like editing podcasts. So I'd press record. Yeah, you mentioned that we're rolling with it because that's uh that's my style. So let's get into it, Jalisa. Welcome to today's podcast. How are you?
SPEAKER_01I'm great, Ash. I am so excited to be here with you and with the PM collective community. It's just, I'm really stoked for our conversation today.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's gonna go in a different, a different way because we have met through a coaching program and I have been watching you with your programs that you offer for first home buyers. And when we did have a chat not long ago, it was a lot around the tenancy support. And we quite often in in property management, we're talking about owner education. And I think I'm not seeing anyone. There might be people listening that do do it, but the tenancy education, I think is a really cool little area that I wanted to touch, touch with you on. And that's where the conversation is going today. But before
Jalisa’s Path Into Home Buying
SPEAKER_00we get started, Jalisa, can you just intro yourself for me? Tell everyone a little bit about who you are, where you've been, what you're up to now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, who I am, where I've been, what I'm up to. Okay, so my name's Jalisa Payne. I am a first home buyers coach and author, former mortgage broker, and I help people who are feeling priced out or confused or overwhelmed and are really feeling crippled by comparison, get the confidence and clarity and strategy they need to be able to buy their first home. And it's amazing. It's kind of almost a full circle moment talking to you today because I started in the property and finance industry almost 20 years ago and you know, went and got my real estate agent's, you know, full principal's license. I don't know if they call it that anymore, but like learned about property management and sales. And I worked in community housing as a tenancy support worker. So it's amazing to be able to come and kind of have this conversation and talk about the opportunity there is for property managers to really nurture and educate and invest in their tenants because they can really be like the tenants you have on your rent roll right now could be future like homeowners or like property buyers and future landlords that you, you know. So if you get in there early and you look after them, they actually you can be a part of their property journey and they may come back to you and go, you were such an amazing property manager for me when I was a tenant. I want you to look after my investment property now, all that kind of thing. So yeah, so that's what I so I went, started there 20 odd years ago, became a mortgage broker, then I had some babies and I went, I love educating and I love what I do in finance, but having kids and trying to do after hours and weekend appointments doesn't really work. So I went and I went, how can I take what I know and still like be able to have a home life but still feel fulfilled on the work front? So I went and wrote some chick children's picture books that are called the Money Lesson Series, so to take financial education, like turn and turn it into like family connection and get the kids educated early. And now from that, I also am doing a like first home buyers coaching program as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's kind of the short version of it. So a
Why Focus On First Home Buyers
SPEAKER_00question for you why did you choose to go down the road of first home buyer coaching as opposed to maybe you know, investor or portfolio building sort of coaching financially? Like, was there a reason why you sort of chose a first home buy?
SPEAKER_01I think for me, it was a couple of things. One, I just love that first, like the education part and love like taking someone from I feel really overwhelmed or stuck, I don't know what I'm doing, giving them that education and seeing their eyes light up and go, oh my God, it is possible. I just like being able to show people, give them a pathway, it's it's something that I love. They were my favorite clients to work with when I was mortgage brokering. So I just love working with first-hand buyers. And I do think there is a gap in the market of like education. Like I think like financial literacy, it's been declining in Australia since I think 2012. And it's just such a taboo topic. And I think it's important to be able to, yeah, talk openly about it, give people like show first-term buyers how it is possible because there is so much like the property market is crazy. So being able to show them it is still possible, here's how. Let me give you the education so you can make informed decisions for yourself that are aligned with your life and your goals and what you want. I don't know, that just really felt like a missing piece for me. And it's just also people I love working with. And I just thought if I can create, and I think finance too can feel like such a scary topic and really daunting. And if you don't know someone in your circle who knows about money or like has gone through that experience and can share it with you, you're kind of like, who do I talk to? I don't know. So you don't know who to trust. So to be able to go, here's like all the education, let me help you. I don't know, it just felt like a really, really good spot for me to sit in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that we take that for granted. Like for me, I um have always been surrounded by people in finance and business and all of that. So it's not hasn't been a missing gap for me. But I think that this is the this is the problem in our industry, is a lot of us maybe are not thinking about this as an idea to educate tenants. Just because it's not your pain point doesn't mean it's not somebody else's pain point. And um, and I think really the way I've always said that the the way that we can better improve the industry is by understanding where people are coming from it and their pain points. And we like I did a I don't know if I ever told you, I did an interview with a couple in their 20s, and one has got a little unit that they live in, the other one hasn't yet purchased any property. And I was trying to understand their opinion of the the market because it's fine to sort of talk about, you know, how it's it's fine to sort of say, oh, well, you know, young people don't get it or first-time buyers don't get it. That's you can sort of say that all you want. But at the end of the day, that's their truth and what they're experiencing. So I try to really tap into that market and ask the questions and find out. And where I'm getting at with that long-winded sort of response is that really tapping into and knowing your tenants well enough to know do they plan on buying, do they want to buy, do they have any intention, do they want to be rent vesting? Like we ask all our landlords what their intention is with a property, are they demolishing it? Are they building a portfolio? But we don't do that same type of thing with tenants. And I don't know why we don't, and I'm just sort of self-reflection, self-reflecting as we're talking about it. I guess because it would feel to us that maybe we are imposing. I think property managers might feel like they're imposing by asking those questions, maybe. But this is why we're having the chat today to sort of maybe talk about ways that property managers can approach tenants and renters to sort of find out a little bit more about them and their intentions and to create really good relationships with their tenancies as well as their owners, because we all know you if you look after your tenants, generally they're going to look after you down the line when it comes to maintenance, patience, you know, all of the above. So that is sort of, yeah, that that's sort of where I guess we're gonna go. Now,
The New Reality Of First Homes
SPEAKER_00first home buyers. I if I if you were to say to me, what does a first home buyer look like? In my brain, I'm still thinking that first home buyers look like an 18 to 22 year old. Is that still the reality or are we seeing first home buyers look different?
SPEAKER_01I don't, yeah, that's not, I don't think that's the stereotypical reality anymore. It's I feel like it's more like anyone up to 45 or even beyond sometimes. And I think that has a lot to do with, you know, people get like marrying later, or also just like taking longer to save or thinking like they have to save a 20% deposit. So it's going to take me so much longer. So I can't, you know, look at even look at properties yet because I'm not set up yet. So I think there's a few things like that. And there's no, yeah, there isn't. And I think what you were saying before, Ash, it really is like the water you swim in. Like you think that, and I know like when I first started talking about creating this online course for first-home buyers, and I was talking to people about it, I thought that what I was putting in my course was really basic because I'm like, this is what I do every day, like surely everyone knows this, but they don't. And I think like first home buyers, there is no one size fits all first-home buyer, and everyone starts from a different point, like they all have a different financial situation, they all have different goals. And and a thing, too, that first-home buyers struggle a lot with is like a lot of people do want to buy property because they want that housing security. Um, and because, like, you know, rents go up and they can't have control over that. But they do, there is that kind of pull like to and fro of I want this and I want that security and peace of mind. But I also like feel like if I get a mortgage, I'm gonna, that's like the end of the road, like it's a mortgage prison, like I won't be able to have a life, I won't be able to go on holidays, or they some I think there's a psychological thing about that, feeling like it's this or that. So I think it really is just leading into being curious and asking, like when you go to your routines or you know, you're doing lease renewals or whatever, just like, hey, like how like just asking those wider questions of, you know, what what are your plans? And and you know, it just can come up in conversation. Like when you're, I know, like with my property manager, like she's a friend, like we just have good old chin wags about whatever. But I think getting curious and going, oh, like, so how are you finding the property? What's working? And you, I think you already probably do that, right? When you're asking how like how much longer they want to extend their lease for. I think there's a natural progression to, you know, are you wanting like, do you have any, you know, prospects of wanting to buy down the track? And just kind of asking the questions, being curious about that, that people will tell you if they've got those aspirations or not. And then that kind of opens the doorway of, oh, you know, okay, great. Like let's let me see how I can support you with that because you've been such a great tenant. Like, if that is a goal of yours, you know, let me surround you with some educational supports or things like that. So I don't know, does that answer your question? I feel like that went up on the change with this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it does. And and yeah, as you're talking, it's sort of like I was thinking to myself that where I think a property manager might be a little bit worried is if they were to ask, ask the tenant. They I'm just wondering whether tenants might think, oh, I don't want to give away my cards. I don't want to give away that I only want to be here for another 12 months because I want to buy because they might kick me out if they know that I'm not long term. And I guess it's really trying to manage that. And and yeah, just and and I don't have the answers, but I guess it's just keeping that conversation open and curious enough for people to understand that that tenancies might not want to give you that information if they're worried about by that. But how can you make it a really approachable, safe environment to have those really good discussions? I've had this thought that over the next sort of five years with our industry, I do feel like we're going to go towards sort of what they currently do in the US, in that people will just have a real estate agent. So a real estate agent is someone that you can call and they will and you can ask them any question about real estate and they'll be able to help you. So someone, I'm fortunate that I'm not exactly that, but I'm close to it, where people will call me up and say, Ash, I'm thinking of selling. What do you reckon I should do? Or yesterday I got an email from someone saying, Ash, I uh do you manage properties in Queensland in an area? I was like, no, but here's my friend's details, call her. Yeah. So when you can become that point of contact, that's a really great space to be. And so I guess as property managers listening, if you can work out what you can do to be that person to serve everyone with that, those connections, and then that opens it up so that I might have a tenant that would call, or hopefully, I don't, but to get to the point of a tenant calling up to say, oh, Ash, I'm really, really wanting to get into um buying my first home, but I just don't even know where to where to start. What should I do? And then knowing who's available like yourself to be able to say, well, here, here's a really great option. You can do this or you can do that. And how to, yeah, how to position yourself to be that person to everyone. And it comes down to number one, knowing people like yourself, property managers knowing what's available for first-time buyers
Asking Tenants About Their Plans
SPEAKER_00is the first step. So you are you are people's first step when it comes to it. And that might involve, you know, calling Jalisa, organizing a catch-up with her. I know that she went to one of the coffee convos if you're fortunate enough to go to one of them and chat to her and brainstorm together what that looks like. That would be the first step. And then the second step would be what are little micro things that you can do during tenancies that can support support tenancies in that. So I I I'm just like thinking out loud, but like, you know, even sending through an email to like we send emails to our owners with lots of education, great education. But like, what are we sending to the tenants? Like, what are we are they getting a newsletter? Like now, if someone's listening and they do a tenancy newsletter, please tell me, send me through a little message and just tell me, yes, Ash, I do them. And this is the topics, because I would personally love to find out a little bit more. And and if that is you, then you can come to a podcast and tell me more about it. But I actually don't know anyone that's doing tenant newsletters.
SPEAKER_01And what it like, that's a massive opportunity because you really can, as the property manager, be almost like a conduit, like that person who is, you're connecting your tenant to all the different like resources and like and sharing your network. It's such a powerful place to be like that one one-stop shop for them. And like, yeah, I was thinking actually before our call, like with the newsletter for
Tenant Newsletters That Add Value
SPEAKER_01tenants, you really could send them like a once a month newsletter. That's maybe a template. It's like, here's one podcast to listen to, here's a link to a book recommendation, here's a masterclass to go along to, and here's like a quiz you can do or something. Like it can really be, and just coming from that place of how can I serve you and add value and show you that I'm here to collaborate with you and I'm in your corner as well. It's not like me and the landlord versus you, like the David and Goliath is a, I don't know if that's the right metaphor, but because I think that is like a misconception out there. Like, you know, the landlord of the property manager sometimes can be like the scary people and like they're gonna when like people going, they're coming for a routine. We better like, you know, put a poster on the kids' drawing that they drew on the wall or whatever it is. But it really going, you know, I can actually be collaborate with you. I'm here on on in your corner as a partner and I'm here to support you. Here are some things with a monthly, and I think those kinds of things people look like tend to then or can look forward to getting those emails. It's like, oh, what's new this month? Like, how how else can I um, you know, expand my knowledge and you know, what has Ash got for me today? Those kinds of things I think could really make a difference and just fostering that relationship with them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and one of a really big goal that we should all have is really improving the our reputation because we don't have a fantastic reputation in the industry. And it's things
Rebuilding Trust With One Inspection
SPEAKER_00like this that actually will improve it. And I I know that in I'm very intentional with everything that I do, trying to work towards that and shifting just one person's experience. I just yesterday had a final inspection with a tenant and the tenant's mum came along. And as soon as I saw the tenant's mum, I was like, okay, this is someone who might be a little bit nervous about a final inspection. The mum's come along for a bit of support in case you need to because the big bad property manager is going to try and take your bond or whatever. And I was, you know, obviously I'm very conversational anyway. So I was chatting to them about where they're going and how great this unit is. And they gave me some feedback on the unit. They said that it's a really big one bedroom, but they were saying that it they actually felt like it was quite a lot of wasted space because the living area was so big. And so it wasn't actually anything that was a problem. It was just them saying to live in it was a bit of an awkward space. And so that was good to know. But then when it came to the blinds, I was like, that was a they were the stupid micro metal Venetians and they're becked. And um, and I said, Oh, listen, I and before I even had checked my emails properly, I said, Listen, the Oni just asked me to pay a bit of attention to this because he said they were in good condition. In that they go, No, they're like done in 2007. I said, okay, let me just quickly check everything. And I checked it, and I was like, no, no, no, you guys are absolutely fine. I have checked the report. As you can see, here are the photos before when you moved in. They're fine now. I don't have any problems with that. I will sort that out directly. You don't need to worry about that. But it was it was good in that they they could see that I had their their back, that I'm supporting the situation. I wasn't bagging the owner by any means, but I was definitely just saying, uh being very factual with no, you guys are fine. I will tell the owner that this is not something claimable for the bond. So you leave that with me. That's my job, that's what I get paid to do. And they were like, oh, good luck with that. And they hadn't gone on to tell me other stories about the owner, which was fine because I didn't know the owner, but I was still able to be very respectful and and and but also give them that reassurance. But then in in that space as well, I also said to them, Listen, I I do have to also let you know that the owner might override my thoughts. If he does, this would be the process. I do have to follow that, and that means that we'll have to go through this process. It could prolong it a little bit. I'm going to try really hard not to, but um, I do just need to give you the heads up that if that's the case, these are the photos we'll use. So it's um it's I guess that was a situation that I just felt like they had had a bad experience. Someone had hurt them down the line. And then just by that one interaction, being able to change the perspective of two people so that we start getting so people start getting the confidence in property managers and how they can support and all of that. So I I think, yeah, all property managers listening have to be intentional with every interaction. And this the newsletter is a fantastic, intentional. Build the relationship, build the reputation and working together. And if everyone, well, not if everyone, if if the majority of us do that, it could it could be a game changer.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely, and it really is like property managers, you guys have such a huge role, and it is a big, busy role, and you're like time pour is like a problem, right? But really, it just taking those extra five minutes, like he did with that tenant who was exiting, that five minutes can just have such a beautiful butterfly ripple effect because like it does, it changes the the listening that someone has as a property manager. And so if they're at a barbecue and they're someone else's complaint, it's like, oh no, no, no, I had this property manager, she did this, and it's just that extra five minutes, those extra few sentences that's that education and like setting up expectations, managing expectations. It really can have them like be on your side, create that win-win and that collaboration again, and showing them, like, you know, like you were saying, you you're not dissing the the owner, like you're still edifying them, and it's that respectful thing and like show seeing both sides, like you know, I can see it all, and it really does, like it can change someone's listening and then it can just spread and everyone like then over time, one person by one person, the listening in the industry changes, and it's really powerful.
SPEAKER_00It is absolutely so where some um support comes in for tenancy support at the moment. I do a lot of work around property management with purpose, and so that would involve when a tenant's
Support Services And Giving Back
SPEAKER_00in arrears reaching out with some ideas of who they can speak to. So for those that haven't sort of seen this presentation, you can speak to your local council, and your local council can put you in touch with the support people or the support not-for-profit in that area who can maybe help them, whether it's with food or or like financially financial support. So people have got that. So we sort of, I think I don't want to say a lot of property managers, but we're starting to get better at the financial support for really struggling and more vulnerable tenants. Because I think there's two types of tenants. There's people that are in a vulnerable situation and buying a new home is not maybe all is not an option for them, or maybe they have the mindset that's not an option for them. And then the second option is people that are strategically renting until they're they're at the place in their life that they can they can buy their first home. But I got introduced to, so I already do a lot of that financial support for tenants anyway, in a certain area of Perth that we manage. Um, I came across a place, it was actually on TikTok, and a lady was posting about a place called Happy Pantry. Now, this is a not-for-profit in WA, and I've reached out to them because it is $10. Now, she said it you sign up and pay $10, but I I think it's I don't think you have to pay anything more for each visit. I think it's just that one fee. And this lady got this massive pantry haul of like bread and veggies and just everything. That she needed a huge shopping hall for $10. And so I reached out to them just to say, listen, I would really love to find out a little bit more about the Happy Pantry and how it works and how I can point my struggling tenants in that direction to be able to go and collect some food. But in return, I will make a donation each month as well. Because I think as as business owners, it's fine to take, I know this is going outside of your pocket of um your the the first home biasing, but I know I'm loving it. Yeah, I think we can, you know, there's all these financial supports that we can give tenants, but we also want to make sure that we're giving back where we can. So if I'm going to send a whole heap of my tenants to Happy Pantry, I want to be able to send them a donation each month just to chop it up because they're helping me and I'm helping them. And I'm just such a believer of the universe that that's the way it works. So I I just wanted to use and take advantage of this platform to remind people that if you do pass um tenants onto an organization, if you can donate back to them, do try and do that because I think that's really important.
SPEAKER_01So it's that symbiotic relationship, right? Like and it's like the pay it forward and it and it really could be. It doesn't have to be like a massive donation, it could be that tiny bit, and it just goes a long way because then that organization, Happy Pantry, can keep going and keep supporting the people who need it. And then you then also have that access to them and you can keep referring your tenants who need it as well. So absolutely, I think that's great.
SPEAKER_00And then in those um tenant newsletters, you could include that, you know. For example, in my situation, I could include the locations of Happy Pantry. So if someone is struggling, because the thing is, is that it's not necessarily your tenant that is struggling. I guess this is where we've got to remember you can send through a tenant newsletter with yet with Happy Pantry, with first home buyers, and you might be a property manager and with a mindset of, well, that's that's not who my audience is. But you know what? They might know a friend or someone who needs that support, who needs that first-home buyer coach, who needs that access to happy pantry. So don't think it's just your tenant, it's actually who they know. And I I think I've said this to you before it's the database's database, you know what I mean? And and it's your tenants, and maybe if maybe they've got a child who is really struggling with life at the moment, and they can point their child into that direction to say, hey, happy pantry, you know, if you've got older children, you know, how about you go reach out to them to get some food this week or whatever it might be, it's just using the the power of what you know and that information to show everyone. Now, what I wanted to get to though, um, I'm very being very long-winded with my conversations today, but they're I'm deriving it. I'm here for it. Okay, so if we talk about the financial support, the happy pantries, all of that that we do a pretty good job of. Tell me about your tenancy support work for the community housing. Did you guys, and if you hopefully you can share just a little bit of insight,
Community Housing Lessons On Arrears
SPEAKER_00do they do a lot of work? Is there something that we could learn from the work that you did as a community housing support worker that maybe property managers are not doing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so when I did this, so this was um 15 plus years ago now. I kind of it was a while ago, but when I did it, I worked in community housing, like social housing. And I my job, one of my roles there was to run a refugee housing program. So that's when like refugee gees were coming into the country, and my job was to help educate them and get them into short-term housing and then transition them and educate them to get them into long-term rentals. And so I did that, which was a massive learning curve on its own. But then also I did another program where I was working, they have different styles of housing and they have different, and in that particular community housing organization, we had our they separated property management into property management. So they're literally just looking after maintenance in the property and then tenancy support workers. So we were working just with the tenants. And one thing that I noticed that was different when I was doing that role compared to when I, you know, had done all my education with like real estate and I had a short stint being a sales agent, and I would take my high like high heels and my, what do you call them, runners to like to do like door knocking or letterbox drops and then um seeing property manager in a real estate agency. What I noticed was different was when people got into arrears, we wouldn't necessarily breach them straight away if they were eight days in arrears. We would get on the phone and it was like a every morning I'd spend an hour or so having a look at my rent arrears and just jump on the phone and say, hey, what's going on? Um, you are in arrears, and then creating repair like payment plans with them. I don't know if you guys do that in in um property management, but we did that quite often in tenancy support work. And um, and that was, and because people were struggling, you know, their lower social economic economic, stumbling my words, but that actually fostered really beautiful relationships with them because you could, and then managing the owners as well, we could you would find out the story of, you know, because people often they don't like being in rent arrears, like they like it can be a shameful thing and it's not something that people are proud of. So it's just again getting curious, like, okay, what's going on? Like you've been in rent arrears now for you know, your few days behind, what's happening, getting the story, and then working with them to get those payment plans. It's like, okay, your rent's X amount of dollars, let's tag on an extra $10 a week. Can you manage that? Or what can you do? 20, or like working with them. And it's like, okay, it's going to take you this long to get back up to date. And then what can we do so that you don't fall behind again? So that was one thing that they did. But then obviously, if people were repeatedly abusing that and you know, get two chances by the third chance, it's like, sorry, like, you know, you're out, and here's the breach, and you then you have to manage them. But that was one thing that I noticed they did differently. What else? Oh, look, that's what comes to mind.
SPEAKER_00So it would just be so that's really interesting. And and I and I do like that. I don't think we probably do that as much, but there's a reason. So with the rent arrears, we um e every state's a little bit different when they can breach. So the breach notes go out. I I think that we're probably not having that phone call as much, and we're not probably asking the right questions. So we're probably just saying, hey, your rent's overdue, when are you paying and making an ex payment? And then they might say in three days. We're not asking why they haven't. And I I'm not saying to call up and say, well, why didn't you pay it? But you have to just work out the language a little bit better and just yeah, again, thinking out loud. So I haven't prepped this, what's about to come out of my mouth. But if you ring up a 10 and you say, oh, hey, I'm just calling up because your rent is five days overdue, is everything okay? That probably would be the best way of saying it. I know that sometimes if I can't get hold of the 10-hour email, that's probably how I would word it. Is everything okay? And that would really open up that conversation where they might say, granted, they might be real excuses or fake excuses, but I don't want to be naive to the fact that there'll be fake excuses. But it's still you've asked that question because I did hear that people don't reach out for support for 12 months after there's a problem. And generally, if you can get in quick at the three-month mark or even earlier and um not create such a taboo topic around the money that if people reach out earlier, they can save themselves a lot of heartache, but they get themselves into a point where it just spirals, it's gone too far, and then they just it's really hard to get out of that hole. So you sort of want to get to them before it gets to that stage.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And also, like, for example, one of my investment properties, one of my tenants, single dad, like, you know, and like comes from a long way back. And he was, there was a bit of a pattern where he was getting into rent arrears. And for my property manager, she would try and call him, he's not answering, she would send an email, and she was starting to get really frustrated because obviously she's talking to me as well, and she doesn't want to, you know, look bad or upset me or anything like that. And she was feeling like he was avoiding her or like, and she it was kind of like, oh, I don't want to have a fight here and things to get competitive. And so what she did for him, she was like, How does this guy like to communicate? Because everyone, like, she's a phone call girl, but everyone communicates differently. And so she kind of had to think about it and realized that he's a texter. And so she texted him saying, Hey, just trying to reconnect with you about rentaries. But I think she she worded it similar to what you said. Hey, I just want to check in, is everything okay? When you get a set, could you give me a buzz? And he like, and within minutes, texted back, oh, so sorry, I saw some missed calls, I've just been swabbed, I'll call you on my lunch break. And then he called her and she's like, mate, have you been avoiding me? What's going on? And he's like, Oh, and then he tells her what's been happening. And she's like, Okay, no worries. Well, you know, your rent's behind and you've got some invoices that you haven't paid. What's going on with that? Oh, and you know, like life had happened. And it's like, okay, no worries. I'm a human being. Like she's and she said to him, I get it. Like she said, like, really like got where he was at and didn't make him wrong for it and like he was inconveniencing her. And she was like, Okay, well, let's make a plan because I've got to talk to the owner about this. Like, what can I tell her to, you know, let her know that you know, you're not avoiding, like you're you got a plan, like what can we do? And I think, yeah, just approaching like that, and like you were saying, how you frame it and how being just being conscious of how could this land, like if it was me and I was calling, like I was the tenant, how would I want someone to talk to me? And I think putting yourself in their shoes can help you, and like you just get busy, right? Like you're oh, I gotta make this phone call, oh rent arrears again. But it's like, hang on, there's a human being on the other end of the line or under or the other end of the phone, like put myself in their shoes, how would I like a property manager to call me? I think that might help as well. And and so now, like, and he does often get into arrears, but it's like, okay, like let's no worries, or I can work with that. Like he is a good tenant otherwise, he looks after the place. So let's do it. How can we work together and make this like work for everyone and that win-win? So it's not perfect, but it's there's it's workable, like we can find a solution.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and and then you've build that trust that he does resolve things as well. So if he does have a hiccup, you know that it is resolved. And and yeah, building that trust. I when I talk to property managers about clients coming into the business. So whether it's a landlord or whether it's a tenant coming into the business, I always
The Brownie Points Relationship Model
SPEAKER_00use the analogy of the cut being half full of water. And so from an owner's point of view, they come in and if you collect the tenant's rent, you arrange maintenance, you tick all the boxes, you do what you're meant to do. I have to remind people that you're not doing actually anything special, you're doing exactly what the client's paying for and what they're expecting. You're not that that's there's no brownie points in that. You're doing what you're meant to be doing. Yeah, basically. So yeah. So what you have to do is constantly find out ways that you can add brownie points so and get that cup overflowing. So when there is a little issue that's come up, then you, you know, when that water drops, it's still staying above the halfway mark. So that's sort of like how I always sort of picture it. If we just do the bare minimum and the water stays halfway, and then we make the odd little mistake here and there, which we all do, and that glass starts dropping, quite often it becomes quite silent and then it dries up, and then that's when you know people get really frustrated. So when we bring that back into the tenant experience, the same thing. So the tenant moves in and what they're expecting of you as a property manager is is the basic. So, but then it's like finding ways to get brownie points and to assist. And so again, this might come down to those things like that tenant newsletter. That would be something that the tenant will slowly go, oh, that's filled up my cup a little bit this month. That's actually quite good. Maybe you arranged some really, really fast maintenance or the extra communication you gave over a situation or you had their back on something, or maybe they wanted to change an inspection time and you're like, absolutely, when does it suit you? And it just you didn't worry about the small items, or maybe the tenant called you to say, Hey, I can't pay my rent this week, but I'll pay double next week, and and you haven't made them feel guilty over it, for example. Those little brownie points are what gets you favours for when you need to use them. And I mean, that's also just an analogy for life in general, but even if you're in, you know, a partner, you've got a partner, it's the same thing, you know, or children, you what brownie points can you get with your partner so that you can, you know, have a little, you know, a little leniency when you maybe you're having a really horrible day and meeting one day, you know, one night or something like that. So it's it's sort of the way I think that intentionally as human beings, it's sort of good to think about, yeah. And we I think we're really failing that in society. Like no one just seems to want to do the extra 1%. Everyone is, I don't know. I just I don't know if you feel like that, but everyone just seems to be the bare minimum. Like I love, I'm a yes person, I love impressing people. That that mentality seems to have gone. No one really seems to want to impress anyone anymore.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I it's almost like the I when you were talking about the cup analogy, I refer to it as a like a love bank, like you're making deposits into the bank, or you're either depositing or you're withdrawing. And I think too, like I think people are just so stretched thin and so and and just so focused on their own world and just surviving the everyday that it becomes hard for people to even think out of how can I just put that 1% or how can I make that deposit today? But it really is like just, and not necessarily that you have to constantly be thinking of new ways to make the deposits or fill up the cup. I think just having almost like a toolkit of things at your at the ready. So if you're talking to someone, are you like, oh, okay, what, what, where are they at right now? How could I just give the extra
A Practical Tenant Care Toolkit
SPEAKER_011%? And it's almost like like when you were talking about like kids, I've got kids as well, and like I've got these children's money books. And it's like if you've got like a tenant who's struggling with money or you know, renters constantly, but like, you know, they're really clean, like their cleanliness is amazing, or like you want to look after them and nurture that relationship. Maybe at Christmas time you just send them a bunch of, hey, here's some children's money books, and they're these bright picture books that like read it with your kids and your family. And then as your tenants are reading them to the kids, they're also going, hang on, these money lessons I can apply to myself as an adult. And then like you become that person that, oh my God, that property manager, like they didn't have to, like, and the thing is you don't have to, you don't have to do these like the 1% or the silver boxes, like you know, and it doesn't have to be books like something that you spend money on. Maybe you just have you go to office works and you buy like a little like note cards, and with every, you know, I don't know, after a routine, you do a little silver box, like write a note, hey Jess, like you the property was fantastic today. Thank you for being an amazing tenant, you know, love Ash or whoever. Like those silver boxes, people remember them. And also it's like your toolkit, okay, I've got these children's money books, I've got these cards from Officeworks, I've got these, you know, whatever it is, like your newsletter, your all those kinds of things. It's like, what can I, what have I got in the toolkit? So you're not thinking about it all the time. You're like, oh, they got that. Let me send them some books, or I'll send them the link to the books, or I'll send them the little card. I think those 1%, the silver boxes, again, it just like it's like filling up the love bank, filling up the cup, and then you become someone who is almost so invaluable and like indispensable. They remember you then. And it's like down the track when they do buy their place, or you know, if they've got someone who like, you know, they've got a friend who just bought a property and they want to rent it out. It's like, oh my god, have you spoken to Ash? She is amazing. She will make sure that your property is looked after and she'll be so good to your tenants, like you won't have to lose a wink of sleep, like that kind of stuff. All those 1% silver boxes, they all add up. And um, like it's not just like you were saying, your database is database, it's like the word of mouth just becomes like it almost go viral as opposite to word of mouth.
SPEAKER_00But anyway, you know, yeah, no, I absolutely. So I've just written this down as like a bit of a toolkit. Maybe we need to work on one to send out. So it's um so I've put the tenant tenant moving in gifts. So people aren't doing that. I mean, we use and one one of my other things on there is metal, like metal's a not-for-profit hamper company, and it's my favorite thing to do. So, like we do Christmas hampers where our owners get to choose if they'd like us to send the tenant a hamper, but that goes a long way because it's actually not about the gift giving, it's actually about the re the the purpose behind metal, and it comes with a card to explain what metal stands for. And that, from a tenant's point of view, they just love being aligned with that. So that's a really big one for us. Our ingoing gifts to tenants, we also do have a little metal candle, but an ingoing gift to a tenant is generally anywhere between $10 and $15. So it's not a lot of money, but that's something that adds those little um brownie points. So we've said that the Christmas gift, we do a five-year anniversary card. So that's just where um it's a handwritten card, and we've sourced the cards from, I think they're from our local childcare. You know, sometimes when local childcares make the cards and and sell it, it's we we ordered off them. So again, there's still some purpose and some meaning behind it. And I think Marissa does a, she's my operations manager. I think she does a voucher for the tenants as well at the five-year mark, might be $50, I think, just a $50 visa card. But that has been a beautiful thing that again, it's like the tenants really do acknowledge that it's not, it's not, it's not necessary, like, but they just appreciate it because it's so random. Then we've got the newsletter. So um a newsletter is uh ultimately a free option that you know people can use with their database. And I love the ideas you mentioned with like a link for a book and a podcast and all of that, remembering that it might not necessarily be your tenant that needs it, but it's the tenant's database that they might know of anyone. So always remembering that layer, especially if you're a small agency with, say, 50 properties. Okay, so that's going out to 50 tenants, but those 50 tenants are going to tell at least another 50 people. So it does compound quite a lot. And then the last thing, just to finish off, just to tie it all in, is you know, giving them ideas and education around first home buyers and the coaching that you do and showcasing where you can support them. So, yes, you've got the first home course that you've got, and maybe there's also someone that does coaching for investors, for example. So making sure that tenants know where to find them and access them and how they can help. So I think that that is everything we talked about today was a really good reminder of the importance of supporting tenancies and the benefits that come with that. So I yeah, I it's just been so lovely to chat with you and just find out a little bit more about that support and sort of just I feel like when we talk, there's always that brainstorming element of it that it's like, oh, what about this? What about that? Oh, and sorry, actually, that the other thing I was trying to work out my writing on my little list um was the sorry, the the money lessons. That's what I had written down. Um I love that idea with those books.
Money Lessons Books For Families
SPEAKER_00Do they come in a pack or are they individual?
SPEAKER_01So I've got there's eight children's picture books. At the moment, I've only got three of them that I've fully published, but it's kind of like these books, they're called the money lessons, and each book touches on a different like money principle, whether it's, you know, learning how to make money from doing something you love or managing money with confidence or saving to accomplish your big dreams. We talk about also like spending, like spending mindfully, giving and friendship and investing and like dealing with temptation and debt, and also about how to like truly be rich and live a holistic, rich and happy life. And so at the moment I've got three of them published, and it's kind of like these books, they're called the Money Lesson Series, and each of them has a different money teacher, and it might be a dragon or a mermaid or a snake, like really, and they're colorful and vibrant, very kid friendly. Well, age group for kids from well, I started with my kids at two, but from really like three to seven, this this kind of age group. And it's making because money conversations, it's like they can it can be such a taboo topic, like I said earlier, but it's finding a way to make money, talking about money accessible and fun and memorable. And so it's kind of like you these they it's almost like it's like the barefoot investor meets the when I'm feeling series, book picture book series, with Adora the Explorer twist. Like there's an adventure element in there as well. And there's a money fairy, and they go on adventures down the road to riches through different habitats. So yeah, it's really like a fun way to talk about money and kind of not just talk about money and financial education, but also create that family connection because then you're, you know, like at bed at night reading to the kids or around the dinner table. And it's amazing the conversations that it sparks. And because the kids, like they'll remember something. They're like, oh, you know, I've got my, you know, say you do pocket money, I've got payday, and it teaches them how to manage their money and put, you know, a bit in their spending, saving, giving, and investing jars. And what, like, tell me about all these. And so you just, and at the end of each book, there's actually like a practical part for kids to apply in everyday life and also for the adults, whether it's parents or grandparents or classrooms, they can do activity. So it's not just reading a book, it's like, okay, here's the book, and then now let's apply it and have it kind of stick as well. So, like they're just I've I've my kids have been my guinea pigs, and I've taken them into schools and classrooms, and yeah, they've been they're amazing. So only three printed at the moment, but all the other ones are finished. I'm just kind of like, do I continue printing them or do I, you know, go and get a book deal? I'm not sure. So, but the first three about making money, managing it, and saving that's just a fantastic starter.
SPEAKER_00Um do you do you sell them like as a pack or as a bundle? As a bundle. So you buy my bundle. And what an awesome idea for property managers who have got families moving into properties and having that as like a little moving gift. That's really cool. Or yeah, matching it at Christmas time with the metal handpapers. I've got about, I think it's about 11 agents around Australia that do the metal gifts. So if you do them, you could maybe look at doing the these books as well. So there's something for the kids in that. But just such really great ideas. And I really love that. I think when I whenever I'm looking at sort of ideas and gifting, I always try to make it aligned with like what we do. So, you know, obviously with us, we try to do a lot of philanthropic stuff. So for me, anything that is around not for profits, I do. And then anything that is around money or housing. So like I've got those, but that's sort of what I try and tell people to stay focused. I have got, I've got a couple of things that I do in our play in our workplace that's probably not 100% aligned, but it's not, it's not that I am against doing it. Like we do a donation to this kids circus thing. It's not a problem. But for me, my my values are more around that the housing marketing support as opposed to the entertainment for sick kids, which I'm not dishing because like obviously that's important, but it is very hard to, very hard to be distracted by all of these different things. You know, this person wants a donation, that person wants a donation. So staying sort of true to that and what we've talked about today is all in line with that intentional property management and where people should be going. So amazing. So now what's the best way for people to reach out to you? What's the best platform and way that they can send you a DM and say hi?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so they
Readiness Audit And Where To Find Jalisa
SPEAKER_01can find me on Instagram at Jalisa Payne, J-A-L-E-S-A, P A I N E. But the other place is my website, which is just Jalisa Pain.com, and I've got all the information there about the first-home finance formula, which is my online course education program Australia-wide for first-home buyers. I've also got my podcast, which is called the First Home Playbook. It's on Apple and Spotify. But also something that might be really valuable for property managers is my first home buyers readiness audit. It's like a quick quiz that you can send to your tenants, you know, that they could do to see where they're at on their home buying journey and how ready they are or they're not. And it tells them what their next best steps are. And then it can also lead into my masterclasses, which I run once a month, that are free. And, you know, that's also a resource that you could send tenants to, especially the one that I'm doing this uh in May is all about how to go from stuck to ready and how to buy your first home without the fear, FOMO, or financial regret. So those kinds of things. But yeah, you can find me. Instagram is probably where I am most active, and then my website too.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. And and I shouldn't, I should also mention that yes, we've talked about the tenants, but actually there'll be property managers listening at the moment that are like, I haven't got my own first home and I want to get out of it. So this is actually really relevant for for you as well, if you're listening and you haven't yet purchased your your own place. So those webinars I think sound like a really great place for people just to start and find out more about yourself and and the good work that you do. So send me through, I'll get you to send me through a link or if you tag me in some stuff, I'll be able to share it as well. But if anyone's got any questions after today, feel free to message me or Jalisa directly and very happy to help. And yeah, and I just I I love all these conversations. I appreciate your time so much. Minji, thank you so much, Ash. Thank you for having me.
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