Why A Portfolio Audit Beats Guesswork Every Time

We unpack how property management teams get stuck, why a simple health check reveals hidden leaks, and how to reset structure, capacity, and messaging for resilient growth. Kasey Lawrence from The Rental Network shares a practical one day plus two week audit model and a grounded take on the “doors per PM” myth.

• reasons agencies seek external health checks
• zoomed out lens versus daily firefighting
• foundations, workflows, templates, and data hygiene
• proactive benchmarking and fee recovery gaps
• real capacity factors beyond a single number
• transition tactics for staff changes and overload
• adapting to VIC legislation and safety checks
• investor confidence through clear, calm messaging
• DIY signal: are we marching to one workflow

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Transcript

Welcome And Casey’s Recent Work

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Welcome to today's podcast, and I am joined with Casey Lawrence. Casey, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me back. And for people behind the scenes, what I love about Casey is that I've like rushed into this room, into the online room, and I'm just going, I'm pressing record, and she doesn't really know what we're going to be talking about today. And um nothing like winging it. Absolutely. So but but I do love talking about things that do come up on socials and things that I have seen you recently post about, which um which I do want to get into because it's one of my favorite topics. Um but before we sort of get started on that, tell me what you've been up to because I haven't had to have a little pre-chat with you before I've hit record. So whatever you've been up to? What have you been training with in offices? What's been happening?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yeah, I've been very heavily into health checks at the moment. There's been a lot happening in that aspect, which I love because that means agencies and agents are wanting to do better and they want their agencies to be better, the service they're delivering be better. So yeah, that's been taking up most of my time outside of obviously mothering and doing all that side of things. But yeah, the health checks have been really popular. So a lot going on in that avenue.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

So if we can talk about the health checks, uh businesses bring um needing that, like what's what's triggering them wanting one done? Is that that their staff have changed or revenue changed?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah, a lot of different aspects are the reasons why or behind the phone call. Anywhere from the department feeling a little bit stale or stagnant, it's not really moving or growing in the way that they would have liked or hoped or once was. There could be, yeah, staff turnover, client loss, client turnover, not being able to retain. There's just something going wrong, but they can't quite put their finger on. They're not growing, they're not thriving. So that's where they, I guess, get me to come in and have a look at it from an external lens. Sometimes they are a little bit too close to it to be able to see what the problem is when you're working in it every day. It just becomes, you know, the hamster wheel. So it does get hard to identify what it is that is making us not move forward. So that's that's my job to figure out for them.

Zoomed Out Lens And External Insight

SPEAKER_01 2:53

I I love that language because that's definitely something that I hear a lot as well, where businesses are like, don't know what's going on, but there's something and it's it's interesting, isn't it, when they can't pinpoint. Um I also love the language around being too far in. So the conversations we've been having recently have been around businesses having a very zoomed-in look at their business. They're looking at things which might sound really important on a day-to-day basis, but you need either to you yourself need to have a zoomed-out lens or you need to bring someone in like you to have that zoomed out lens as well. It's um, it's sort of like we inside businesses and business owners, sometimes they just assume that the way they do things are the way that everyone does it. And I think it'd be really interesting, like for people like yourself, where you go into lots of offices to go, this is not normal.

Foundations Versus Quick Fixes

SPEAKER_00 3:51

And do you know what? There's no office that I've been in that runs the same as another one, unless I've obviously gone in and done that at another one and I'm going to do it at the next one. They all run so different, and what the problem that they think might be holding them back is generally not what the case is at all. It is, in my experience, it does stem from and come from the fundamentals and the foundations of that department that isn't kind of maybe structured enough or it hasn't been realigned or looked at as the legislation and the industry has moved. So it it generally does stem from that. But then the more established agencies, they have a different, you know, problem that needs to be addressed because they do have foundations and fundamentals. So what is it in those agencies? So it sometimes is just retweaking that, changing the structure of the department a little bit, updating and refining the foundations that they do have in place. Because obviously it's been working for a period of time to get them to where they are. It just needs to be, I guess, bought up to speed with where things are at in the industry today.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

It's also a shame, I think, to have businesses, but this is just normal psychology where businesses only bring someone in when they are there's a problem. And it's sort of like that, you know, like that whole reactive situation. It's a shame that people don't bring, you know, trainers and coaches or consultants in when like when everything's going well for the health check.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Is I mean, is that happening or is it like so the upcoming year?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

There is a little bit of proactive health checking happening with some of my clients. I do go in on a regular basis and just tick all the boxes for them. And it just gives them the peace of mind that things are going along and as they should be. But if anything isn't, it's watch their attention sooner rather later. So it's not a huge, a huge percentage, but a small minority is doing the proactive health checks, which is great.

Proactive Audits And Benchmarking

SPEAKER_01 5:58

It'd be good to, yeah, to sort of get more people to to do that. I mean, uh saying that I don't do that. That's right. I should practice what I you know what I'm preaching. But it it's it reminds me of a I've recently started with the the REAP or the REAP dashboard. And so what that dashboard looks at is all the stats of the business and where the you know the revenue and the percentages, but also benchmarking and how the business compares to others around Australia. And what's really interesting is that I could easily say confidently, yep, my business is ticking along nicely. It's you know, it's either profit's good, this is good, and everything's going nice. However, what that dashboard actually taught me was that there were two areas inside the business where we were below average with the benchmarking. And it was a bit of a reality check for me because I thought, how many businesses like me were the same where they're like, yep, you know what? Everything's like ticked, like all the things that I think are important are ticked. But it's also really good to sort of like in this case, it was more of I needed to zoom in as a because I was already zoomed out. I had to zoom in to actual specifics. So one thing for me in the business that I wasn't doing, and I know that you are property management focused, but it was actually in the sales. So for example, we were under the benchmark for claim for like recovering marketing costs from sales, yeah, which I knew we were. So while it didn't make a difference to the bottom line, it was still something that we should work on. And I would imagine that that could happen in consulting that you do. Sometimes it looks like everything's ticking along and all the big ticks are made, but what little ticks could there still be improvement and could you still do better? Uh even though the big ticks done.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yeah, yeah. Even just looking at little things like your fees on the back end and the fee, your fee reports. Sometimes they're the staff or whoever's entering the fees or how they've been input from the beginning, triggering the wrong chart of account. So then your fees aren't reflecting what the charge is, if that makes sense. So they're just being documented wrong. So you can't even really get a good snapshot of how much your lease renewal fees are making, rent reviews, all those, you know, little ones that add up, if they're not being input correctly or calculated correctly, then yeah, it's giving you misaligned data.

Hidden Revenue Leaks And Fee Data

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah. Can you can you just if we could just go back to the basics? Because I always love finding out the actual time frame and experience if there is business owners out there that are like, you know what, I think I probably do need a health check done on our portfolio. Maybe they're listening and they've never had one before. Yeah. What sort of time frame would it be, like what would sort of time frame would they experience? Is it something where you would come in over a three-month, three-month period, six months, 12 months, or is it like one day, just so they know what they would have to expect?

What A Health Check Involves

SPEAKER_00 9:07

It can be staged depending on how far they're wanting to go with the support. So initially, the health check, though, it is a one-day in office doing detailed questionnaire and interviews with so the detailed questionnaire is with the main head of department or director, and then it's one-on-one staff sit-downs and meetings throughout the day, just to gauge their perspective on how they're feeling about their rent role, their portfolio, any pain points they would like pointed out, uh, where they feel like they're thriving, where they feel like they need additional support. That's one day. And then from there, I will go away. And it's a two-week turnaround, then from me jumping into their back end, doing a detailed audit on their software, systems, procedures, their tech stack. From there, I will put together the report with my findings and potential recommendations or implementations and a pathway to then implement if they need my support doing that. So the report will always allow them to be able to do the implementations. Not like I've got them in handcuffs now and I'm getting more work. It's for them to that here's your report. You can go away and implement what you like. I can help you with certain aspects if you need. So two weeks for the health check generally.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yeah, that's really awesome. And especially for agencies that might have the extra capacity at the moment. Like there are some agencies I've I've seen where they've got they're a little bit overstaffed. I think that this is something that would be really great to do if you are a little bit overstaffed to take advantage of this period of time or this season that you're in and get it all clean. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I think it's great. And and and there's also a part of the team implementing it themselves that gives them a little bit of understanding of why things get charged and why things need to be tidied up as well. Like, I'm sure there's probably a lot of people that don't want to do it are just like case, like you just think.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah, there is. I think I think it is good for people to have that understanding. Yeah, and some involvement for sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Yeah. Um, now the question that I wanted to ask you, which I put on my stories last night, was the one that everybody asked.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Which is, and I'm gonna disclose this though. I hate this question.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

I know, kills me.

Team Buy In And Implementation

The “How Many Properties” Question

SPEAKER_01 11:24

How how many properties should one property manager manage? And yeah, the reason why I I hate the question that I'll ask you, I hate the question because every single time when I go into the comments, it's like, well, it depends. It depends on this. And it's like, I know it depends on a lot, but I feel like no one gives the number. Now, can what what's your thoughts behind that question and what frustrates you the most when because I'm sure business owners who are getting you in are like, how many properties should my property manager be managing? Because it's not working at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

How are you dealing with that?

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Well, yeah, it is not a one number fits all answer to the question. It there's so many variables around that question and giving the answer to it. So I sitting here today wouldn't even give you a number because it depends where your office is, your demographic, how long your staff have been in the role for, have they got the trust that's been built with their clients that now they can just freely do their job because the clients trust that they're doing the right thing? What's the geographical spread of the properties? There's so many different aspects to that question. So agencies obviously want their staff to manage the higher number. And you can get to those higher numbers, so around your twos or early 200s, but there's factors that need to be taken into account. What kind of support does the team have? Is there field support, VA support? How long has the agent been in that role for? Do they have the trust with their clients? If there's tick, tick, tick, tick for all of those, they've been in their role in that agency for a number of years, then yes, they can manage that higher number of properties. But if you're new in your portfolio, you need to have a lower number of properties because you have to spend time nurturing those clients and building the relationship and building the trust. If you've got stacked portfolio on the higher numbers and you're new in that rent role, you are going to be treading water for a really long time because you're just reacting to what's coming in and you're not having time to build those relationships. So the trust will take longer to get, and you'll probably have a lot of hiccups along the way, lost clients, complaints because you can't keep up. They don't know who you are. So there's yeah, so many different avenues and aspects.

Capacity, Tenure, And Support Models

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Yeah, I I think my numbers sit similar to what you just suggested. I think with full support, like so outside work, then the 200 to 220, yes. But I do agree that it's the time enroll that is the most important factor. And so when clients, like when owners call up or new prospects call up and say, How many properties does the property manager manage? And ours might be seen as more than what some of our competitors would have. I always say to the client, listen, I know it sounds high. However, that property manager has been in that role for seven years. Like she doesn't even really need to do much with the clients because they just completely trust her. Yeah, that is the biggest one. I think, I think I love a number based on what would be considered also reasonable. So if I was to give a number, I would say, you know, let's say 200 for a full portfolio, but that's just like on the computer with outside support. And that would be assuming uh well, actually, that wouldn't even matter where they are geographically, to be honest. But a full portfolio, I generally would use 120 as a base for full portfolio management, assuming that they are all in geographically one area as well. And I think that yeah, that is the so if your property manager is not coping with 80 properties, for example, then the question would be well, where are the properties? Are they are are they all in the same area? But I think as well, like we should make the figure, assuming that geographically they are together, and we should also make the assumption, assuming that they there is a healthy mix of houses and units as well. So yes, based on that assumption, but then there are there are businesses out there where they might have brand new builds, and I know that they hold their own problems with dealing with builders and the warranties and things like that as well. So there's a couple of patches.

Handling Transitions And Workload

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah, and also I think probably the most important one that we haven't touched on is that the department has to be structured and set up with full systems and procedures, checklists, workflows, if they're scrambling every day to figure out where they were at with that task or what they're doing there, there's that's taking a lot more time. So to be more efficient and manage more properties, you have to have those foundations set in place in the agency. But what you said earlier about the owners calling and asking how many property properties the property managers manage, I wish more owners and investors asked that question because that should be a determining factor into who is to who you choose as your agency, because it's it's not asked enough, but knowing the right answer that you should be getting in return. If someone can't answer that question, then they're not the right agent for you.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

I the question that I try that I like my landlords to ask is or prospective landlords to ask is what is your capacity to take on more properties? Because I actually think that that's a really important question as well. Because the capacity, like for example, I had a client just yesterday call up about us managing his property, and I said, you know, listen, Chelsea's the the property manager for that area. She has capacity for another 30 properties on her portfolio. And I said to him, that's a really great question for you to ask property managers when you're sort of interviewing them, because it's I think it's healthy for a property manager to also know how many more properties can I can I can I do on my like comfortably. I think it's to me that tells a lot as well. It tells me whether you are a little bit more, you know, you're thinking of the future, you're thinking of the next step. Yeah, you're aware of it. That's right. I think that there's something in that that I think is yeah, a good number to uh to know. Now the uh what was the other question I was going to ask you in relationship? Oh, can you tell me what? So you know how we're talking about the number of, you know, if you've been with the agency longer, then yes, you can manage more. How do you think it could be managed if like if I just hypothetically use someone in my office as an example, she manages 170 properties end to end, but she's been with me for 10 years, for 14 years actually. If she was to leave, then okay, yes, that would be a lot for a new person to come in straight away, but I would want them to ultimately have that because she's been able to, but then like if I go, oh, I'll I'll bring someone in, but they're probably going to only be able to do 120 and then I'll build them up to that portfolio. Yes. What do I what do I do with those extra properties?

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Well, yeah. Where are you in the growth phase? I think look at that too, and what's in the pipeline, what's coming on? Do we have capacity there to support taking 50 off and building a new portfolio? Maybe bringing a junior in or someone with a little bit lesser experience who needs to start on a smaller portfolio. The other thing would be your other staff members, like you mentioned capacity before. What capacity do they have to take on more properties? Can they be spread across the other staff in the property without overcapitalizing them? So I think it is important definitely to look at that when your staff are leaving or someone is leaving in the office. What's the size of the portfolio and what number do we need to bring it back to to allow them to settle in and build relationships with the clients? That's the most important thing. Not just your owners, your tenants too. You need to build those relationships to be able to then deliver that really good service.

Adapting To VIC Legislation Changes

SPEAKER_01 19:48

And I'm actually now that I, you know, just we were talking about, I'm just thinking another thing could be that I would could, not that she's leaving any, she would be retiring before she leaves, but the other thing would be is that I could potentially outsource her inspections for the first three months while she settles in that role with the 170 properties to give them the respite. But then that would be the yeah, that would probably be the way that it could work as well. So that might be something for people to take away. Definitely now. My next question is how has legislation in VIC changed business owners' stamina, or like, you know, their their their emotional health, I guess, like when it comes to having a property management business?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Yeah, you've just got to they need to adapt with the change in legislation. So there is a lot more, I guess, needs for yes, the clients, the owners, the renters, but what support are we putting in to the office to then sustain the changes that are coming in? So for example, the safety checks that we're having to do now, that's a lot of additional work that these property managers are having to take on, which then ultimately means potentially lower portfolio numbers to be able to manage that additional work that's come with the new legislation. So are we bringing on a safety manager, a safety check manager, a compliance manager, or are we lowering portfolios? Are we bringing on additional support? Are we outsourcing to tech that does the management of those safety checks as in the visual management? So I think there needs to be adapting with those changes and there needs to be potentially restructuring of the department to make sure that the staff can deliver on the work that makes sure the agency is complying with those changes that are coming in, but also the education to the owners, too, to make them feel comfortable with what's happening, that the agency's across it and we're fully supporting you, we're holding your hand through this, and this is how it's going to be moving forward. So not to panic or scare them.

Investor Confidence And PM Messaging

SPEAKER_01 21:58

I think there's a lot to be said for property managers having confidence with you know how they're in control of everything and the changes.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

But that comes with the understanding of what's changing too. We need to educate ourselves so we can pass that education on to the clients and have them feel comfortable and confident in us being able to manage their property.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Yeah. Are we seeing in your area property managers or business owners really questioning, you know, when we were doing this? Why do I wake up each more?

SPEAKER_00 22:31

I was literally just in a meeting prior to this, and the directors said the exact same thing. Like, we're getting land tax bills that are through the roof. And it's like, why are we investing in Victoria? But please don't leave investors. You need to have this is why asking and finding the right agent is so important now. Because if you don't have the right agent, it will be harder for you to retain your property because they won't be maximizing. Your return, looking at your yields. Do property managers know what yields are? You know, do have they even said the word? Do they know what it is? Are they maximizing, trying to maximize the return by updating the property when it needs, refreshing it, finding key tenant selection? Like that's it starts with key tenant selection, finding a tenant that is going to look after the investment and make it worthwhile and sustainable for the owner to stay in the market. So it starts with your agent selection and knowing or picking a good agent that knows what they're doing and is working with your best interests at heart.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah, absolutely. They're they're in sort of the investor space that I work in, and I've got a buyer's agent that is provides us like with a high-level sort of data outlook each month for the Perth and the Melbourne markets. He actually still has a pretty positive outlook on Melbourne. He said that it's actually been one of the most stable markets like for like the last 20 years. It's never had the big, you know, the big roller coaster. But he goes, that's actually really great that it hasn't. And he's not seeing any stress really with the investors not wanting to buy in or anything like that. So I thought that was quite a good sign.

DIY Signal: Are We Aligned

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Well, I think that it does just come back to the confidence that the property manager has in well the confidence the owner has in their property manager that the property manager shouldn't be putting fear into the owner or making these changes a big deal. It's about they're coming into effect whether we like it or not. So here's how we're evolving and adapting with it, and here's how we're going to protect your investment through it. So the conversation just needs to be reframed and not be so, you know, the fear-mongering and making it. I know there's instances where owners sadly haven't been able to retain their properties through all of these changes, but the ones that have been able to, you know, your your serious investors because they've made it through all the changes. And then the ones that are coming in don't know any different. So let's just grab those ones with both hands and give them the best service, not only to the owners, but to the renters as well. They're just as important and they often get forgotten about.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Yeah, absolutely. And just to finish up the last question, and I know it would, you know, for anyone that's listening that is feeling like their business is a little bit off and they, you know, well, I mean, I can probably guarantee you, I actually barely know many officers that actually have had, you know, a health check. So I think it's a great thing to do, regardless of where you are in your business. Um, but if there is someone listening that's like, I just want to do it myself, what would be the one thing, if you can give us a little tip, what would be the one thing you should say to someone, you should just check this, and this will sort of determine like whether you really need to get an expert in to do it or not. What would be that one?

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Are the staff all marching to the beat of the same drum? So looking at their workflows and automations. So workflows, checklists, email templates, are they all there? And are they all, you know, customized but also systemized throughout the department that everyone is marching from the beat of the same drum? If you don't have that, then yes, you need health check.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

I um I would yeah, and cool case, absolutely. The the one thing that I think is actually a real eye-opener that I would encourage all business owners, if given the opportunity to do it, is that is when you've got a team member on leave stepping into their portfolio.

Closing And How To Reach Casey

SPEAKER_00 26:37

I've done that before. Yeah, people have called me in to do that. Can you just jump in and let me know what's happening?

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yeah, you would learn so much. Oh, yeah. Because you know what, you could ask your property managers, hey, are you all using this template? And they'll be like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, there is a template in the system. And actually, that'll be what a lot of business owners think. We've got templates, but it's like, yes, but are they using the template? Yeah, that's yeah, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

I think the other thing that would be that you would be a red flag or I guess a light bulb that I probably should get one is that we're not moving, we're not going forward. So in any aspect. So staff satisfaction, growth, profitability, something's happening for us to not move forward. So if you're kind of feeling like the wheels are turning, but we're not going anywhere, then that'd be a good place to start as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Yeah, absolutely. Wonderful. We did a fantastic job of winging it today. 100% with a list of questions. If I was there, I'd be high-fiving you. Well done. Did very well. But yeah, it's some, you know, sometimes just having those conversations are just nice and easy for people to listen to. Um, and I and I appreciate having people like you on the podcast as well, because you do have that vast experience with offices and what's going on in them so that you can give healthy comparisons to other business owners to say that doesn't sound right. And you know, you do need that support. So, Casey, where's the best place for people to contact you if they do want um to um speak to you about having a health check done?

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Yeah, probably just on, I guess Instagram is probably the best place, the rental network.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Amazing. So head over and give Case a follow. And if you have any questions, go directly to her. And yeah, I mean, I I can tell you right now, if you're listening, you probably haven't had one done, so you probably do. So I'm going to do that. And I appreciate your time. And I will see you soon, no doubt. I'll see you next week at next. Fabulous. Yeah, yeah. We'll see you there. Thanks for having me out. See ya.