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PM Collective - The ART of property management
The ART of property management with Ashleigh Goodchild is a leading platform supporting collaboration not competition through an online community and events throughout the year with one purpose: to create happier property managers. She creates connections for property managers looking to create momentum in their careers and personal life. Join Ashleigh and her guests as they discuss challenges, struggles, mental health, mindset and give advice to property managers and anyone in the industry. To get the support in your property management career, join our PM Collective Facebook and Instagram community.
PM Collective - The ART of property management
Creating Value Through Maintenance Education - Plumbing
Paul from Plumbing Bros shares expert insights on managing rental property plumbing issues efficiently and proactively. We discuss the value of preventative maintenance through Home Safety Checks and how to build stronger relationships between property managers, tenants, and contractors.
• Leaking taps, toilets, and seasonal hot water system failures are the most common plumbing issues in rentals
• Property managers should consider scheduling a Home Safety Check ($99+GST) when plumbers visit a property more than twice in 12 months
• High-quality work orders should include photos, specific location details, urgency level, access instructions, and budget caps
• Knowing the location of isolation taps in properties (especially apartments) can prevent major damage during emergencies
• Common tenant-related issues include items flushed down toilets, overtightened taps, and unreported maintenance problems
• Having both corporate plumbing providers and smaller operators on your contractor list ensures coverage for all situations
• Water filtration systems are becoming increasingly popular and may become an expected feature for future renters
• Proactive educational sessions with plumbers can help property managers identify issues early and communicate more effectively with owners
Contact Plumbing Bros for a copy of their Home Safety Check template and access to their quote bot for quick pricing estimates.
PM COLLECTIVE - GUIDE AND SHAPE AN ENJOYABLE FUTURE
We believe in making industry-leading education and support accessible to everyone. Our community is packed with free resources, expert insights, and innovative training designed to help business owners, property managers, and BDMs thrive.
This podcast is sponsored by West Oz Trades.
West Oz Trades are the team to service and install your air conditioning systems in Perth Western Australia. WestOz Trades Air Conditioning Services | Perth, Western Australia
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Todays Sponsor is MyConnect: They reward you generously for every successful connection we receive from your office. We also regularly run campaigns and exclusive events to reward our partners for their ongoing support.
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Welcome to today's podcast. So we are doing an educational series. So last week we did a catch up with a aircon contractor and today we have the lovely Paul from Plumbing Bros joining us. Welcome, Paul.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much for the podcast. First podcast.
Speaker 1:First one, yeah Exciting.
Speaker 2:Excellent. I'm just getting used to the setup. This is great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for those that can't see Paul which you probably can he's brought lots of show notes. I'm sorry. I'm trying to be prepared, it's okay. It's interesting because I give questions to my guests that come on, but quite often we don't follow those questions and we end up just chatting. Because I do like the conversation.
Speaker 2:The tangent didn't hurt anyone. Right Let conversation and you'll be fine.
Speaker 1:The tangent didn't hurt anyone, right? Absolutely. These series of podcasts that we're doing are absolutely educational off the back of our trade education day that we did, where we had a group of property managers that came and got educated by plumbers, electricians, the whole lot to get more confident with maintenance, to know when to troubleshoot with their tenants and know when to put something through to the owner with a bit more advice, and so we're just basically putting these through to podcasts so that everyone can experience our wonderful trade education day we had here in Perth. So let's start with the basics. So, straight up, what are the most common plumbing issues you're getting called out in rentals? What's the biggest thing you're finding?
Speaker 2:Leaking taps and toilets. As exciting as that sounds, it is the most common, I would say. Our industry is quite seasonal as well, so right now hot water units are a big one. Lots of rain, more pressure on the hot water units, wind, pilot lights going out that is an incredibly common one, where we try and troubleshoot it over the phone rather than having to go and educate the tenants and, in turn, the property managers that were doing a good job doing that anyway, to better solve that problem without us having to physically be there.
Speaker 1:So, with leaking taps, do property managers ask you to go out and just do those leaking taps? Are property managers these days asking you to do all the taps while you're there? Is that happening or not? Really, it's a mixture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good point. I suppose it depends on the landlord and what they've approved to go out for. There's a mixture of landlords out there as to how they prefer their trades or the contractors to operate through the property managers. I would say 80% of the time the PM will say look, have a look at other fixtures. Whilst you're there you might other fixtures, whilst you're there you might as well. The way we see it is that we're your eyes and ears when you're not there consciously. You have your quarterly checks and your PCRs, but if we can check whilst we're on site, it doesn't take too long, so we can do that.
Speaker 1:When it comes to leaking taps, yeah, one thing that you mentioned at the trade education day was and you're looking scared at what I'm about- to say here was I think it was you that said that an average plumber goes out to a property. How many times? I can't remember. I can't remember. It was 1.2. It was 1.2.
Speaker 2:It was 1.2. It was.
Speaker 1:And I thought that was a really interesting stat. We were talking about it when we do our annual investor audits and I find that when I've got a plumber going out to a property, if they're up to their third visit for the 12 months, that's generally when I would say to an owner listen, next time a plumber needs to go out, let's get them to do a bit of a once over, because four times a year for a plumber I think is quite excessive. It is excessive.
Speaker 2:Yeah so.
Speaker 1:I think that's really something that's really important for property managers to start thinking about when, if you have a, if you need to send out a plumber, have a look at how many times a plumber's been out in the last 12 months. Work out what they've been out for. If they've already been out for one of the toilets, some taps and something else, then why not just get the rest done at that next visit?
Speaker 2:It's hard because, whilst four is excessive, it just depends on the problem right. It depends on the issue and the type of house it is. Things can go. It's like having a car. If I have a car for a long period of time, things start to go consistently. We offer home safety checks as part of what we do, and I'm sure other contractors do it as well.
Speaker 1:So what's that involve?
Speaker 2:So a home safety check is whilst we're on site, we'll go around the house and do those checks on the taps, the toilets, the toilets. We'll check the flexes flexes is a big one and that's common all season round. In relation to just checking, because that's one of those small parts if it's not looked after it can cause a big problem down the line and I'm sure you've got some questions on that we'll talk about later. But looking at the hot water unit as well, base plate how old is it? Is that functioning correctly? And once we've done that around the house, then that we give the report back any recommended works and we'd love to see a clean home safety check. And, that being, nothing needs to be done to offer peace of mind to the landlords and the PMs.
Speaker 1:So when you say a home safety check, are you suggesting that if I was to send you out for a blocked oil then ask you to do a home safety check? Or are you suggesting that when property managers bring on obedience, bring on new business, they maybe talk to an owner about doing that as part of the maintenance plan? Let's get a home. What did you call it? A home?
Speaker 2:safety check.
Speaker 1:Home safety check done and then okay, so they're being proactive in getting that done.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then getting a full report of where everything looks. And then, of course, it's not denying the fact that there'll be a random blocked toilet down the track. Things like that are going to happen, but it's just going to pick up anything, maybe from an age point of view. Is that what you're suggesting From an age point of view?
Speaker 2:and maybe the likelihood of that hot water Age and condition, Age and condition Right so condition of things and items around the household. So if we look at a tap and stiff taps is another common one and that's a mixture of it could be the part, it could be the tenant themselves overtightening it consistently, and then they call the PM and the work order comes through to us. But the home safety check will cover the majority of that.
Speaker 1:Plumbing Bruce, I know obviously you're in Perth, but whereabouts are you located?
Speaker 2:West Leederville around the corner, oh no no, no, sorry.
Speaker 1:In Australia though All over, there's all over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we've got franchise partners in New South Wales, queensland. We've got operations in Melbourne, so Victoria, and then obviously Manchurian and WA Metro as well. Yeah, okay, so those are the main locations, so they're the ones that will have access to this home safety check if they wanted to go down the road of that.
Speaker 1:So I'm really into the proactiveness. So naturally, proactive maintenance we're currently doing is like gutter cleaning, which naturally most people do.
Speaker 1:Hopefully you're all doing that Aircon maintenance is something that we're trying to do around spring, september, and then I like the idea of then, yeah, potentially something like that, adding it into that proactiveness and, yeah, be quite beneficial and beneficial for the property and the tenant, but also such a good marketing piece for an owner for them to see a property manager Like, even if they don't take it up, the fact that you've offered it as a suggestion puts you up there in comparison to all the other agents regardless, and if they don't do it, then they can't have a whinge. The client can't have a whinge down the track when there's so many plumbing visits.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good point. Actually, we've had a customer who actually didn't want us to do home safety checks. They actually saw it as this. It was a pretty cynical view, but we're just trying to make more money from our clients, like an upsell or something Right.
Speaker 2:Yes, we have a rule we will never recommend something that doesn't need doing. But the irony and we were happy to not go to and do home safety checks for that customer, but the irony of that was their properties. We were all peace offenders going out there for different issues because we weren't processing the home safety checks. So it goes back to what you said earlier, around four being excessive. The irony of us not doing the home safety checks upon request was that we were going back to the same property for various issues that we maybe were able to catch earlier on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that's right. And the other irony is that generally these properties that have big issues, it happens on the weekend and then you've got the after I call us. It's just bad luck, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Friday afternoon, long weekend, easter break is when all the yeah, all the big things happen.
Speaker 1:All the big things happen yeah, and it's also just going back to the plumbing visits. I think that for me, if my clients have got a plumber going out there like once or twice a year, I think that's considered, I'd be happy. Normal I'd say to an owner listen, that's quite normal. When it's the yeah, the third or fourth, I think, okay, let's have a bit of a plan, and I don't actually think of the plan until that third or fourth.
Speaker 1:So, it's good for me just to have a little think about can I bring that plan in a little bit earlier and when would be a time to do it? So in my mind I'm just thinking to myself that when we do our annual investor audits, if I've got a client that hasn't had any plumbing visits, naturally a PM would go. Great, no plumbing visits. But in my mind I'm thinking, great, you haven't had to send out a plumber. How about we get that proactive one to help the owner budget for things that might happen? So it's just getting property managers to rethink a little bit.
Speaker 2:Maintenance, yeah, not being just when there's problems. Yeah, I think the word there is proactive. Yeah, one of the questions you've got for me down the line, that's my answer. It's about being proactive and then communicating effectively. I'll give you another example and again, any contractor can use it if they've got the ability to do it in their business is we do annual home safety checks. So you've got I know electricians can do their ECCs, which is more compliance From a plumbing perspective.
Speaker 2:We do home safety checks a lot, which is we charge $99 plus GST, but whoever the contractor you're using, so see fit. But we do high-rise apartments in bulk lots. So you know, in some cases it might be the same owner, in others it's different. But we'll go to the same high-rise apartment and we'll do home safety checks and almost go from door to door, if you like, and then send those reports back and they feel I've done that. Some stradlers will have that as just a policy and a process. It's like we get this done and it's a value add. You mentioned earlier about what are we doing and what sets us apart. It's that proactive value add to your customers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing. Now next question is from a contractor's perspective what details do you wish property managers included in work orders? That would help save time and improve outcomes, and feel free to be pretty honest with that. What are we doing? What are we doing? That's like making your life just a little bit harder.
Speaker 2:This is one of my favorite parts.
Speaker 1:Hold on, I just have to say Paul's a very gentle soul and I know that you don't want to be mean, but I'm giving you permission to be a little bit mean. I don't need to be mean, I am a gentle soul but I'll always tell how it is as well.
Speaker 2:You were smiling while you were asking that question as well.
Speaker 1:I was. Yeah, my hands are rubbed together Like what are? It comes to quotes, so we get a lot of quote requests through.
Speaker 2:A lot of landlords want to see three quotations, with most quotes will receive a photo, but with a work order we won't. And so that's the first one photos and then the detail. So if it is a shower, is it an ensuite shower or the main bathroom shower? If it is a shower, is it an en suite shower or the main bathroom shower? If it's a toilet, which toilet is it? But again, photos give us so much information in relation to the type of item. It is right, the type of toilet, type of taps, type of shower.
Speaker 2:We'll have an X amount of van stock. We can't have 35,000 individual products in a van. We'll be hauling around trucks. But in relation to photos, makes it super easy for us to be prepared. The detail, and the more detail the better, and I'm conscious of what pms have to do on a day-to-day basis, from contractors to each other, to landlords and tenants. There's a lot of stakeholders I have to deal with on a daily basis, so they want to get the work order out as soon as possible and trust their contractor to do it. But the more detail the better. From that perspective, caps on work orders are always good as well.
Speaker 2:Some of our clients just have a set cap, but others will specifically put a cap in for that particular landlord.
Speaker 1:To the property manager that says I don't like putting a cap on because you're just going to make the invoice that amount. What's your response? I?
Speaker 2:can only speak for ourselves we don't do that.
Speaker 2:The cap for us is more, so we don't go over it in a sense so if there's works that are required and and this goes back to the photos right, so we might go to a job. And we'll have a job saying leaking sink, let's say, we don't know which sink it is could be kitchen, could be bathroom we get there and we fix the leaking sink, but we find something else that's potentially urgent. Now, if it's a, let's say, a flexi hose, we'd probably do it on site because there's a relatively low cost part and relatively quick to do. But if it's something more severe, that there's a crack in a pipe and it requires more labor to do that, that's going to go over the cap. So it's having that conversation with the PM to say, hey, we found this Whilst we're on site. Do you want us to even investigate or do it, which obviously they have to drop everything, call the landlord and try and get approval if that's feasible.
Speaker 2:But in relation to the invoice, yeah, we will never look. I can only speak for ourselves when doing that. That's quite sad. Do you think people think like that? Is that a thing? I think it's a big thing. Is it really Okay.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'm being naive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you're being naive, I think it's a big thing. Well, those are some of the things we've dealt with. Honestly, we've not had too many of those challenges. Good yeah.
Speaker 2:No that.
Speaker 1:But no, I think it is a big thing. I think that people aren't going to give you a. People will give you a budget. If in anything, I think that the budget would more likely be on the lower side, sure, to allow for that little button, that little extra.
Speaker 2:That I'm aware of. Yeah, that I'm absolutely aware of. That happens pretty common.
Speaker 1:So if they give you a budget, I'm pretty sure the budget is a little bit more than that.
Speaker 2:but Possibly can, and PMs are pretty good in relation. They tend to have longstanding relationships with their contractors, so they'll know and get a gauge on how much something should be. So if it's a toilet service or a tap replacement they'll know, because they've done so many of them in other properties. What kind of invoice to expect.
Speaker 1:So what I do is, if I've got an owner that is first up, I always say that you should have reputable contractors that you use and you trust. So that's the first thing. I actually quite like the idea of having two or three contractors in each department in an office for one of sizable, a sizable portfolio Number one. I think that it's healthy to make sure that you are not putting too much pressure on one specific plumber as well, and it depends on the size of your business and the size of the plumber you're using. But I also think that there's different locations and when you have, say, let's say you've got two people that you use on your books, you've got the transaction history. So what I would do is I would then go back to the transaction history for you guys and if an owner says to me how much, roughly, would it cost for that blocked toilet, I can go back through your transaction list and I can go listen, it's going to be around this, based on your other invoices that you've done. So I try to do that and I find that's really helpful to give me a budget and a guide of how much you're going to be.
Speaker 1:But the other things is that I think having what I call you guys a corporate plumber. So I like to have a corporate plumber on my books because I actually also and I don't know whether this is just something that I think, but I actually think that you guys would be number one. You can access more of a geographical area than what a smaller person can do, but I also think that you've got the ability with having some parts. You know your trade rates and all of that. I just think you guys would always get I find your pricing is much better for bigger jobs as well and hot water systems and I don't know if that's just a myth or not, but I do feel that's why corporate plumbers, or what I call a corporate plumber, is very healthy to have on a portfolio for that. You don't have to rely on a little retired guy having to go down and get a hot water system somewhere that type of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great conversation. Most of our customers, if not all, will have at least two or three on the books and I think that's incredibly helpful and I recommend that to anyone. In relation to the type of plumber that you have, what's been interesting, especially in some recent meetings I've had, is they have smaller plumbers, you know smaller teams, on their books as contractors and they actually become part of the family, almost without getting too light and fluffy, but they then become this kind of support revenue for that business, which I kind of love. I think that's awesome. They've got this relationship with this family plumber. They do the right thing by each other and that relationship has flourished and then, ironically, we become second or third choice to that plumber, and that's okay. Those plumbers, as you say, they'll retire. There's holidays. After hours is a big one.
Speaker 2:So you talk about corporate plumbers having after hours ability. I'm not saying the small companies, don't A lot of them actually do?
Speaker 1:But you're inconveniencing them a lot more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's from that perspective. It's just a healthy minimum. I think it goes for most contracts, not just plumbing. I think it goes for all.
Speaker 1:Yep, and I think that I actually don't necessarily think that a corporate plumber should be second or third from a retired man. But what I do want to draw attention to Zach I'm glad you brought it up the businesses that have the small retired plumber that are part of the family. Great to have them. But I just I actually think that you should be, you should keep in mind what jobs you give each person. I just think that they might be great for something like literally just one leaking tap or something small, like really little. I think that maybe that might be an okay option.
Speaker 1:But 100% your after hours, your geographical, your easy process for your team to have one person that you know can do anything where this person can only do this certain area. Like you said, you've got holidays. We've just recently experienced the smaller contractors this isn't plumbers, this is just in general but the smaller plumbers going on holiday, having an operation on the back, something going on getting sick, and you are putting a lot of pressure on those solo business and then they feel bad because they don't want to let you down and then it becomes a big thing.
Speaker 1:So sure, have them, but you need to have a corporate plumber on your team to help balance it out and to me it's just healthy and I don't think it's definitely not a hierarchy thing, it's just about being appropriate with the type of work you're giving each of them. And yeah, corporate contractors whether it's your handsmen plumbers, electric electricians are such an important part in your role and I just I do encourage everyone to have them.
Speaker 2:But yeah, there's a lot of the well there's lots of work there, right, you sound incredibly organized in the way you approach that and, from the outside looking in, actually sounds like a lot of work for a property manager to do that for each of their contractors and have that thought process.
Speaker 2:And I suppose how seasoned you are in the industry, you can adapt and operate that in a pretty quick way. Another thing I will say and I'll bring it back to the original question as well in relation to any plumber you deal with, it is a relationship business. So a lot of these, a lot of our customers, do enjoy the smaller plumbers because they enjoy having that conversation with the person who did the works, who's probably also going to be doing the invoicing. It's almost that they are every part of the kind of business cycle, from end to end. Some of them even do the scheduling, depending on who they are. There are companies out there that do enjoy that. But I think everything you said in relation to the more, the flexibility and the availability is going to be key and, let's not forget, the objective here is to really take as much off a PM's plate as possible right so how can we make that easier as a contractor?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's sad. I just wanted to add two more things to your original questions. How urgent is the work order?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a big one. To be fair, PMs are pretty good at that.
Speaker 1:In relation to saying this is urgent Go out today good at that.
Speaker 2:In relation to saying this today about today, friday afternoons. Friday afternoons, I'll boom or bust. I don't know if any of the contractors experience this, but boom or bust. It is either flat out crazy, um, or it's just not as busy. It's really interesting day, friday, but that's where your hot water units go and there's flooding, those kind of things. So urgency is a big one. So, marking that the work order is important, actually putting the time frame on when you expect us to be there Again, I won't speak for all contractors, but we should be getting in touch with that work order on the same day as a minimum, regardless of the work, and then, depending on the urgency, we'll book it in accordingly. And I've got one more. First I'm going to look at my notes Access instructions. That's a cracker, yeah, yeah, okay. So especially for those metro city where it's a nightmare to park or there's a variety of buildings at a similar site and where we're parking, what access do we have to the property? That's a big one, yeah excellent, love it.
Speaker 1:That got me thinking about just the mention of corporate in the city, of an apartment that we were managing, and the importance of knowing where the isolation tap is for the unit. So in Elizabeth Quay in the city, the isolation tap is actually in the manhole, and so I knew that and as a plumber, you probably know all the secret spots for them. But how important would it be for a property manager, especially in an apartment, to know where the isolation tap is in every property? Yeah, massive, we actually should label that. You know what. We're not doing that at the moment. I reckon we should just about put it somewhere on our software so we know, so that if your tenant calls up to say there's a flood, you can say, okay, listen, in the manhole or behind the toilet or in the laundry, for example I think they're the main spots there's a tap that's going to isolate water for your unit. Like we're not doing that. Well, I don't think people are doing it.
Speaker 2:We do, I know you do. We have to as part of internal notes, especially if we go back out to the same property and for whatever reason, yeah, the amount of strata we've had to call and get hold of and we've gone out to a job where there's actually an isolation tap in the apartment. They think they have to shut the whole building down. That's not the case, yeah, yeah. So actually understanding where the isolation tap is, yeah, because some of these buildings don't have apartments with their own isolation, so some of the isolations are actually outside, yeah, on the ground, and so you're not underground but on the ground in each property is different. But when we go there, if we experience an isolation at tap location, we'll put it in our internal notes. We'll also put it on the work order and works undertaken, just so the pm knows if ever they need it.
Speaker 2:But to have a system internally from a property manager perspective, where they've got it and just in case we need to ask the questions very rarely we do, but if there's history at the property or it's a bit of a fiddly one, yeah we're not backwards and coming forwards. When asked the question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this one was in a manhole, but typically would we find an isolation tap behind a toilet, laundry or kitchen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, kitchen cabinet, it really depends, on the property, to be honest with you and where they're at. But once you've found it in one, it tends to be very similar for the others in that same if it's apartments we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, there you go, the little gold nugget for everyone to take away. Think about that. Yeah, think about that when you're doing your labels. Now, we talked about mistakes that property managers maybe aren't putting in work orders. Are there anything and this isn't a blame thing with tenants, and please don't go back to your tenants and say it's your fault, you over-tightened the taps. But is there something that we're finding tenants are contributing to, which is putting more wear on a property?
Speaker 2:for plumbing. Yeah, I wouldn't say wear, but this is definitely a cost. The tenant tends to pay for this cost. Depending on the PM, it's the things they put down the toilet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say that's a common thing. It's so common.
Speaker 2:And this is another tip in relation to PMs and their contractors Make sure you've got the cause and resolution in your works undertaken. We're very specific on that. This was the cause, this was the resolve. It tells its own story, and blockages is one of the big ones, because do you on-charge a tenant or is that a landlord cost? Is it wear and tear? Is it a build-up of grease and fat, which is genuine, or have someone flushed anything other than the three Ps?
Speaker 1:down the toilet.
Speaker 2:So that being people and paper.
Speaker 1:I was thinking that for a minute.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pee, pee and make sure we're all aligned on what's going on in the toilet, but that's probably the big one. But I wouldn't say that's necessarily wear and tear over a long period of time, it's just more the inconvenience of getting contractors out.
Speaker 1:Other items I would say is you just mentioned tightening taps?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's over tightening taps. There would say is you just mentioned tightening taps? Yeah, that's over tightening taps.
Speaker 2:There's a tenants try and fix a lot themselves. We hear and see, and sometimes that's not necessarily the right way about doing things and also, depending on the type of fix, it will need a licensed plumber regardless. Right, um, to go out there and fix it so they can warrant the work that sits behind over tightening taps is a common one. And again, looking at a result for that, is it the right type of tap for that tenant? Now I'd love to think every landlord cares about it, but I know a lot won't. And that's okay, right, is it?
Speaker 2:We're there to protect their investment at the end of the day. But there are solutions, for you know, there's quarter turn taps to stop that, so they're not having to feel like they're forever screwing and there's other solutions out there and ignoring the early signs. And so we've also found, especially towards probably just post-COVID, we found a lot of tenants weren't reporting things their landlords because they didn't want to move or be a problem tenant. So we see that a lot, which makes the PCRs and the Courtney inspections just as important, because if they pick up on something that a tenant hasn't raised, just because they don't want to rock the apple cart or feel like they're an inconvenience for the landlord.
Speaker 1:That's pretty common. It's all right, because what's happening now is they're getting their rent increase and then they're sending through their 12 months worth of maintenance. Yeah, okay, yeah, that's what's happening. It's all balancing out.
Speaker 2:It's all a circle of life, it's all coming around. But we did see that for a period of time where tenants just didn't want to be an inconvenience. Yeah, they just wanted to be quiet and they're happy where they're at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was actually not about being an inconvenience, it was about them not wanting their rent to go up and their own having the expense.
Speaker 1:Which is then why we do our routine inspections, so that we can make sure that's not happening, because we do have to educate our landlord. I don't care Like your rent. Return is not based on your maintenance at the property. So don't come to me as a landlord and say I've had too much maintenance, I want to put my rent up. No, your rent goes up based on market and demand. Supply and demand, nothing else. Don't talk to me about it. Same as a landlord that might say my interest rates has gone up and I want to increase my rent no, it doesn't work like that. So I guess we have to have the tenants back a little bit with that, with making sure that we're educating the owners.
Speaker 1:But again, routine inspections to pick up on those maintenance items, I think is quite good. The sanitary items down and toilet we've had a few recently where that's happened. But there's also been tree roots as well, and so that has been a little bit tricky as a property manager for us to go. Should it be 50-50? If there were no tree root issue, would that sanitary product have been an issue? Vice versa? I don't know. You just have to navigate, I guess, and negotiate, and it also probably depends on how long the tenant's been in the property for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's so many factors. Yeah, but to put something down the toilet that shouldn't have gone down the toilet, to then expose the tree roots, oh, yeah. And the tree roots are only going to get worse unless a permanent solution is done.
Speaker 2:And that's a typical one of those examples where you go to a property, you find the blockage. You've done your better to plunge it and used your sani snake and gone through the jetting and drainage machines and all the different methods we've got and then you find those tree roots. That's where that big bill and we'd never do it without approval because that's a significant job, but that's also incredibly common tree roots. Yeah, that's a good point you raised, yeah.
Speaker 1:The hair and showers. I've seen that question get floated around a little bit on some of the Facebook groups and my thoughts with that that if you are naturally using a shower the way the shower should be used, you're washing your hair in the shower. If your hair goes down for me, I actually see that as wear and tear. Okay, yeah, but I don't think not everyone would probably agree with that, but I feel like you're using it the way that you're meant to be using it.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You're washing your hair the way you're meant to be washing it, and if you naturally have hair that over time builds up, I personally would put that down to wear and tear, but I think that would be mixed, have you?
Speaker 2:ever heard anyone talk about that? No, at first. Yeah, so I've talked about it a lot, but at first of that viewpoint to be honest, I think there needs to be a duty of care in relation to keeping the shower clean. Now, I'm not a property manager.
Speaker 1:And you also don't have long dark hair.
Speaker 2:No, no, yeah, mine just goes down and that's fine, but I think it's a really good talking point. So when we see cause of hair as a blockage, that tends to be a tenant cost from our experience. But if you go back, it's how much hair right? How much hair over how long a period of time?
Speaker 2:Again, going back to your point earlier, has this happened before and there might be a bigger issue if it's happened consistently. But in relation to someone who we've been out imagine your property and I've been out three times to unblock the shower because there's hair in there three times in a year yeah, I would say it's probably a duty of care for the tenant to make sure. I'm not expecting them to go down and check the pipes, but make sure the shower's clean and the hair might be in other parts of the shower before it actually goes down.
Speaker 1:And then just make sure they pick it up it's clean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's very subjective, but it's definitely the first time I've heard your opinion as that. Yeah, Normally it's a tenant cost. From our experience if it's clogged hair and normally when it is clogged hair it's chunks it's pretty significant.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and it's generally the long hair that gets tangled, oh for sure, yeah, the short hair's fine. Is there any type of product off the shelf that would actually disintegrate hair in a shower, or not really?
Speaker 2:Probably I wouldn't want to comment.
Speaker 1:We don't need to worry because you've got all the plumbers to be able to fix it. Yeah, we've got what we need?
Speaker 2:yeah, but off the shelf. I'm sure there is, but I wouldn't know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just wondering if there was something that there was, like a good off-the-shelf something from Bunnings that they could just put down regularly to disintegrate it.
Speaker 2:There probably is, but there's all sorts of you know in relation to doing it for shower and sinks and blockages, whether it's used off-the-shelf different bleaches and toilet blockers and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or blockers I should say not toilet blockers.
Speaker 1:There we go. Okay, we'll stop talking about hair and sanitary products. Let's go on to the next one. So, when it comes to urgent versus non-urgent plumbing issues, what are some ways that we could be triaging these jobs, especially when we've got tenants that are panicking? Because actually I think I had one of these that you had to deal with a couple of weeks ago, where it was a tenant that was a little bit disgruntled at me, do you remember?
Speaker 1:No one ever came back to me and said it was a problem. But he was a bit disgruntled because I made the decision not to have you guys go out on the weekend. I was happy for you guys If you felt like you needed to, that was fine. But I made the decision that he could just wait till Monday morning to have the hot water system replaced and I communicate that to you. But I also gave you the heads up that he was a little bit disgruntled with me, just so you could go in with that pre-warned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with empathy, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, with triaging, are we doing enough, like in terms of we're not putting too much pressure on you guys, we're I think you should put the pressure on us in that sense, we're experts at what we do and similar to you, but in relation to triaging, firstly, is anyone at risk or is anything at risk?
Speaker 2:So that's the thing. There's a roof coming from. I literally had one last night. I had the PM texting me and saying there was water coming through from the light. Okay, so there's probably a bit of an electrical issue as well as plumbing. And my first question was how bad is the leak? And we can get out there this evening if you want us to. Unless it was a drip, I'm like, okay, cool. So that was. You know. I had to ask them the question for them to ask.
Speaker 1:And if they had just sent you the photo or the video straight up, it would have helped.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's more than welcome to do that, but yeah, so. Is it of risk to anyone or anything is probably the first one. One common, whilst this isn't or it could be urgent, is people get worried about their water bill if it's a leak.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do.
Speaker 2:Going out to the water meter. If the water meter's spinning, then yeah, we need to get out there pretty quickly because that's a pretty urgent leak. But if it's ticking over really slowly then it might not be as urgent as you think. And also, you've got your leak allowance if you need to, and do that for leaks that are not visible.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I know all PMs pretty much know this. But yeah, not visible leaks is where you can claim that allowance.
Speaker 1:But also making sure your tenant is turning off that water main straight away when they report it. And then we go to you and we say okay, this has happened, We've told them to turn off. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a biggie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even what I had the other day. I had a hot water system the other night. That was over. That was actually. I hadn't seen it before. Normally I see the big tanks of the big tanks of hot water systems, storage ones, overflowing with water. This was an instantaneous Okay, with water flowing, okay, that sounds good. Actually, I'm pretty sure it was an instantaneous, was it a?
Speaker 2:box looking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a box looking one Could be a pipe. Yeah, okay, I hadn't seen that before, but there was. I could see from the video the tenant sent there were like a red and, I'm sorry, a green and a yellow tap from the copper pipes underneath. So I just said to them just turn that off for me. And then that sort of stopped that leak. And then I said to her listen, we're going to just wait till tomorrow morning to sort that one out yeah.
Speaker 1:I said just boil a kettle for your dishes or something like that, and she was fine. But I guess if you do lead with empathy on that, you don't get those demands of people wanting to go out straight away. So for me there was no point in that situation having a plumber go out that evening. You can isolate it. It's nine o'clock, go to bed, turn your water off.
Speaker 2:You're not going to need it. Yeah, if they're okay with it. Another urgent one would be a blocked toilet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when there's only one correct yeah, that's another big one.
Speaker 2:So it's the first question. Again, pms are pretty good at giving us that information straight away. So it's the only toilet at the house. We need you there ASAP. Yeah, but some still don't. So we have to do our due diligence. Speak to the tenant. Do you have another one? Do you have access to other means of showering or using the toilet? Um, because we have to lead with empathy, because people can't live without hot water or in this weather they like to. Yeah, even more so, and that's why.
Speaker 2:I said earlier, it's seasonal because the items in the household aren't put under as much pressure in the summer. But they are in winter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly yeah, filtration systems. I have been a little bit curious about doing this on my own home and I think this actually came up on the trade education day about your plumber talking about the pressure of our water with pipes and just the pressure of just our quality of water and filtration systems on home. Is that becoming a thing or not? Really, yeah, it's huge, it's massive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but not in our line of work.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Because it's most of our business is residential maintenance for property managers, so landlords aren't going to necessarily invest in that, unless there's already a filtration system in place. Then there might be a replacement or an upgrade, depending on what's requiring at the time. But yeah, that's huge. The quality of water over here is pretty bad, and you think about all these new developments that are flying up there in a sense, and they're getting more access. I'm seeing a lot of these new houses actually have water filtration from kind of day one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, implemented yeah. So it's pretty common. You've got a whole house, you've got just under sink common. You've got a whole house. You've got just under sink. If you want, you know, you get the small kind of filter taps and, yeah, real mixture. But there's lots of players on the market now in that space. Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1:So you guys put them into homes?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we put them into homes but, as I say, we don't do too many based on our line of work. No, but we can absolutely do it yeah.
Speaker 1:I've been going, I've been doing some training with sustainable homes for my team, and so I think it's going to be a real thing. As we go along and we have, I've just got booked into my home solar with a battery, so that's my first step. I need to get insulation, because I've got a funny feeling I don't have insulation, so that's a problem. But the filtration system is potentially my next step. To do it, which I wouldn't have thought of it as a big deal.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't have thought of it as a big deal except for two things. One, I am finding that in Perth in general, our water pipes are becoming like really bad, like the amount of plumbing work at the moment down in the Rockingham area. The fact that it's in that area tells me that it's just getting to an age where it's just high. But the second thing is my daughter came to me the other day because we've got this filtration jug like just a standard jug, oh, for breastfeeding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we've got this and my kids no one was filling it up after they used it, so it was empty and so they were all carrying on my daughter actually she's the only one that carries on, she's 16. She hasn't filled up the jug. I said actually I've seen you not fill up the jug, so I think you're all contributing to not filling up the jug. Then I get the 14. Well, I don't use that water, I just use tap water. I said, mill, just use tap water, just fill up your water bottle with tap water. She goes that's disgusting, mum, no one does that these days. And I went really Is that? I was genuinely curious. I said is that the thing? She goes you need filtered water. It's disgusting to drink tap water.
Speaker 1:You don't know what's in it and I was like never heard that come out of her mouth before. And I think it's a thing with teenagers that they are just so conscious of that. And I ended up filling a bottle up with tap water anyway and gave it to her and I said there you go. Good on you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, love that.
Speaker 1:Because I had George. I was like you know you have to wait for it to filter through.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:George was like I need to go. I need to go. He's like just put tap water in it. I said don't you dare say a word to her about it. He's like promise, I won't. So I filled it up and gave it to her, and she wouldn't have noticed. She didn't say anything to me, but I just think it might not be a thing at the moment with investment properties and investors. What I love property managers to do, though, is to start thinking about it and being educated in the thought that there is filtration systems that can go in homes. It could be something that, in five years or 10 years or 20 years, is a thing, and it's just something just to be educated on and mindful of. More than anything, whether it's relevant or not now, I think it is going to be relevant in the future.
Speaker 2:It's definitely I'd say it's the thing now. It's more education on what filters are out there, first and foremost, and also what are they filtering.
Speaker 2:So there's different types of filters that will filter different elements, and so some people think one size fits all, but that's not necessarily the case. A good talking point on this is the calcium. You think about the calcium that build up that you see pretty quickly in some of these properties, especially older properties and things that we look for. You know talk about what to look out for. It's that kind of corrosion, that kind of green looking substance on tap that's what we see.
Speaker 1:Is that the same thing we see on the shower heads? Yes, yeah, yeah those points.
Speaker 2:So I know a lot of water filtration systems actually won't filter out calcium, but I think that will evolve and change pretty quickly. But yeah, just the quality of the drinking water over here, it's okay. It's fine. Compared to other parts of the world, we're very lucky. But I've never heard of a. Yeah, nobody drinks tap water anymore. Did you tell her after that it was tap water?
Speaker 1:No, hell, no, I'm not telling her. Oh, it's a secret I'm going to die with.
Speaker 2:Really, wow, yeah, tell her, did it taste any different? How did you feel? Oh, don't worry.
Speaker 1:The 14-year-old will use an opportunity at some point. Did you know? Did you know? Without a doubt?
Speaker 1:it will come out because that's the type of kid with that and then I will lose her trust forever. But yeah, no, but it was just yeah, I just was curious by it. I hadn't heard it and I just yeah. I always like to think about what that generation thinks because, like I said, she's 16. If that's her thoughts and that's her friend's thought, and if you think about it, she's going to be out there renting maybe in 10 years time. Is that something that renters are going to want in 10 years' time? If my daughter's talking about it now as a thing, is that just going to be what they expect? I don't know, it's just the whole thought leadership.
Speaker 1:I love that idea and thinking of it.
Speaker 2:It's good. I think you've answered in part earlier around the Brita filter right. For renters, they've got a solution. If it's not got a full-term household, there's a whole household, then at least you've got a bit of filter, but just for drinking, obviously it's like to help you with your showers and I think you can get nice little filters on the shower.
Speaker 1:They can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a mixture but yes, I've not really thought about it too much in relation to that, but also down about 16 year old daughter. Yeah, telling me I've got a 16-year-old daughter telling me I've got a five-year-old boy, yeah.
Speaker 1:He will probably never mention it in his life.
Speaker 2:He's like, I'm bothered at the moment.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So I'm happy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, interesting.
Speaker 1:Well, there you go. Anyway, just a thought. Thank you so much for your time. It is always a pleasure chatting to you and it I've got questions to answer and I told you I literally told you and I think you've probably looked at your notes like once, maybe twice, one and a half times. I told you I'm going to look at them.
Speaker 2:Honestly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm a wonderful host and I just ask questions.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:But it's definitely good for people to listen to those chats to reflect whether they're doing certain things in their business to potentially train their team. Making sure that photos is probably the biggest thing that we've taken away. I think that everyone's doing it. So the fact that not everyone is doing that, I think it needs to be reminded to them. And the importance of having a corporate plumber I think is really really important for offices and the sort of annual check or the health Home safety check.
Speaker 2:Home safety check. Home safety check. Sorry, I keep on saying health. We will get there together as a team. Sorry, we will do it Home safety check.
Speaker 1:I am just a big thing with the proactiveness and I love that and if you do get a moment, I would love to see an example report of what that looks like and actually maybe that's something you could potentially do. If you have got an example, look for property managers to then be able to say to an owner this is what a report would look like. Is there something that you can do? We have one.
Speaker 2:yes, and we do it for any new customer being onboarded. Okay. When we send our insurances and documents we actually send them the blank template.
Speaker 1:Okay, so there's two kind of old moments when other than using us.
Speaker 2:I like to think is the home safety check and the template and the quote bot yeah, so this is if you need a quick quote, there's a link that we have. Click on that link, ask it a question. It'll give you that quick answer. So when you've got that landlord on the phone wanting a price for something, yeah you can give them just an indicative price I mean, I don't happen to go to your contractors all right.
Speaker 1:so if people want to ask the bot and that example checklist, I think that they can email you directly and they can get a copy of that, which I think would be great for them to have in their office, not an?
Speaker 2:issue, not an issue, and I'll leave you with one tip as well. I have to. I would feel remiss if I didn't do this. You talk about the trade day that we did.
Speaker 2:We've been going to customers and presenting in front of their PM team on the things that we've talked about today and more, and the flexi hoses and what to watch out for. We do a bit of show and tell. So we literally bring a hot water unit, a few taps and there's always golden nuggets that come out of that and it's an opportunity for PMs to ask questions. Yeah, that's of high value. I recommend any contractor do it with any of their customer base and any PMs who have contractors where they need a subject matter for their PM meeting or just want a bit of a refresher. Reach out to your teams and to your contractors. They should be able to help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing. So yeah, if you're having those boring PM meetings where you're just sitting around talking Boring PM meetings, no, no, no, no. Is that what you think there is? I can tell you there is. I don't do meeting. But no, if you are like, if you are an office that does the boring peer meetings where you sit around and go, okay, so how's everyone going this this month? Or what leads do we bring in? And, yeah, I recommend yourself, go in there and you start booking in the contractors to come and educate. I think that's a great thing to leave with them. Yeah, very helpful, and then people can ask those questions in the intimacy of their own environment right and they can have laughs around it.
Speaker 2:No, which customer they're talking?
Speaker 1:about.
Speaker 2:But that just brought talk about strengthening relationships and that was all born from what you did on the trade day Amazing, it was great.
Speaker 1:And stay tuned because you came up. We don't tell everyone what it is, though, but you came up with a good idea for our next trade education. It's under wraps at the moment. That's going to be fun, and we'll have that announced for next year. Beautiful, yeah, I will. I'm in the process of looking at some venues for that, so I look forward to doing more of that as time goes on. But, yeah, thank you for your time.
Speaker 1:Thank you, we'll speak to you soon and everyone can reach out to you directly to get a copy of those bits and pieces.
