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PM Collective - The ART of property management
Legacy in Transition
Louisianna Giumelli shares her journey of taking over Choice Property Group, a 32-year legacy real estate business, and how she's refreshing the brand while honoring its history.
• Started in real estate 12 years ago working through leasing, property management, sales and corporate roles
• Originally approached her former employer about buying just his portfolio, but was offered the entire business instead
• Chose a strategic 50-50 partnership for transition before buying the business outright
• Made conscious decision to refresh rather than completely rebrand to honor the legacy
• Maintains the business's unique position as a full-service boutique agency offering residential, commercial, property management and sales
• Describes leadership style as "servant leadership" – leading from underneath by asking "what do you need from me?"
• Emphasizes the importance of being "in the trenches" with your team rather than managing from above
• Structured one-on-ones focus on connection rather than performance tracking
• Balances drive for continuous improvement with understanding when the team needs a break
• Sources support from various people including family members, consultants, and the previous owner
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We are in studio today for another episode with Lou Gemelli from Choice Property Group, and I don't think you've been on a podcast with me before yet, have you? No, I haven't. No. Excellent. Have you done a podcast before? No, I haven't.
Speaker 1:There you go First one and we're in a beautiful studio. So it probably makes it feel a little bit more daunting than when we do them over Zoom normally. But we got chatting over socials about what you are up to at the moment, and we got chatting over socials about what you are up to at the moment, and we're going to talk a bit about legacy and I want to talk about being a young person taking over a older brand. Ultimately, and I think you're going to find there's a lot of people that are listening that have either in the same position or thinking about something similar. So I'm really excited to get in and start talking or thinking about something similar. So I'm really excited to get in and start talking to you about it today. So, for those that don't know you, can you have a little, or just run us through a little bit of a brief history about where you were and what's led you to where you are now?
Speaker 2:Oh well, I've been in the industry for 12 years now. I started in leasing in property management. I went into the city doing high rise apartments doing three to six month leases so we're turning over really quick. And then I went into sales in the Western suburbs doing like PA and EA work, doing like PA and EA work, and then I've gone around quite a lot doing all aspects of the industry and then I landed back in doing like a sales role, selling real estate, and then into more office management and then from there I went to corporate so yeah, in that kind of seeing the backend in a corporate real estate role for a global brand and then headed up a residential portfolio and really we just worked on growth. That's all we wanted to do was grow that portfolio and from there I had was grow that portfolio and from there I had.
Speaker 2:Chris Kalpachin was my first ever employer and I was his leasing consultant and we everyone had kind of spoken about what's Chris doing. You know he's getting to that age, is he going to start retiring? And when I was head of department with Anna we talked about partnering. So I approached him and said, can I buy your portfolio? And I was going to bring it in with Anna, and he said no, how long ago was that? That was October 22.
Speaker 1:Okay, a few years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, and he said, no, but you can buy my business. And I was like, oh, that's, I don't think I want to do that.
Speaker 1:And what made you think that you didn't want to do that more?
Speaker 2:because it was just, it was quite daunting, and so I just thought, oh, I'm not sure. But then I sat with it for quite a while and I realised, well, I'm a fourth generation local of that area, I know that portfolio really well, I know the clients really well. That actually makes more sense. And I decided to go 50-50 with Chris. I said I'm not going to buy the whole thing straight away, I'll go 50-50 for three years, and that was to do a really good handover and make sure that I have all of that legacy, because as soon as you buy something, they just walk out the door. That is years of knowledge. Just walked out the door, and that's the value is what's in there? Yeah, it's nothing tangible really.
Speaker 2:And so we got, we did 50-50. We took it, we changed the company entity over, did all the deeds of assignment and all that, yeah. And then it was about six months in and I decided that it's probably time to go 100%. So I bought Chris out in October 24. Yeah, so it's just been me on my lonesome for six months now.
Speaker 2:It was my sixth month, on the 1st of April.
Speaker 1:What was it that made you think that you were wanting a business Like? Was it that you were thinking of the future? It was just that you wanted to be a business owner, Was it? What was it? I think?
Speaker 2:throughout my whole career I've always loved real estate. I've tried, like, I reckon, months leaving real estate and I've always gone straight back to it. I've loved with real estate. There's so many different things to do, there's so much learning all the time and I just. It's just that opportunity to always grow, always learn, always have something in front of you. That was the main reason to not be confined to you know, this is your job, do this job and that's it. It was just always having something that you know. The more that I put in it, the more that I could get out, was the idea of it.
Speaker 1:I suppose, and it's interesting because there is two personalities with real estate and you obviously have the same personality that I have where you can fall into that whole. I don't want to actually call it a hustle culture, but it's always that what's next, what's next, what's next. And if you've been in a sales role, that's constantly what you're doing. You're constantly going what's next, where's the next listing? If you're a BDM, you do the same. It's unusual just to sort of sit and relax and do your job Like I don't get that mentality, but there are people that are like that and that's absolutely fine and perfect and they're in roles which might be property management or trust accounting and things like that. So it's very interesting, I know.
Speaker 2:I had coffee with Cara Debel, professional sterling clerk, and she was talking about that and she was saying she was like ambition, it is a blessing and a curse, like you. Just you get to where you get to and then you okay, I'm settled here. What's next?
Speaker 1:Exactly, and and I, the podcast that we'll have the following week is actually about the control and and whether that, you know, controls a good thing and, yeah, constantly wanting what's next.
Speaker 1:It's just, it's just. I find the psychology side of it super, super interesting and often I go to bed at night and I do think to myself why do I do that Like I could like, why am I doing this, you know, and and hustling for, you know, with whatever I'm doing, with new ideas, when I could have had a really great life just with my real estate business and waking up and managing that every day and just plodding through like how easy would life be? And I don't know what it is that doesn't allow me just to accept that. I don't know. I actually think it's actually probably, um, a a trauma, like subconscious trauma, which not that I've had. We normally isolate trauma as a negative and I haven't had negative trauma in my life for the while. I believe I've had negative trauma in my childhood, but there is something that has happened in our childhoods that has put us in that mindset of just keep going, keep going, just keep going.
Speaker 2:I know I had a real once. I started getting into that and you know, like biting things up, like biting a lot off, and then just being like oh shit. And then you get through it and you're like, oh, okay Then. And then you start the whole thing again and I started really thinking like what the fuck is wrong with me? And I started thinking, yeah, going through that whole like is this for validation? Like is this, what is this? Is this like the good girl complex, like like the overachiever or something? And it's not. It's just this hunger, but not for like financial or like I want this and I want that. It's just the. If my brain is active, and that's when I'm the happiest, when I've got that drive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, late last year I had a must have been a couple of months where I had brought in an operations manager. She had taken a whole heap of work off my load and it was traveling beautifully. And I actually got to a point and I hope she's not listening to this right now because I haven't told her but I got to a point where I was like I think I'm bored. I think that feeling I'm having is boredom. I'm not sure because I hadn't had that feeling before. And this is exactly what I was doing. I had to self-reflect and go to myself. Why do I feel so uncomfortable with this feeling? Yeah, because I'm sure there's people out there that would kill for boredom To just lay down.
Speaker 2:I know, not physically, but just it's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think that if it's serving you well and it's not affecting your relationships and not affecting your business and not affecting you personally, then I think it's absolutely fine to have that.
Speaker 2:But if it's not serving you, then sure, maybe you need to do something. And that is what I've been like. I tell you, know my mom and stuff like that, like I work crazy hours and I'm up early and I'm late at night and I'm just always thinking about it, doing things, talking to different people, and she's like you've got to settle down, You've got to you know, pace yourself around. And I say to her I'm young, I'm single, I've got no children, this is my time.
Speaker 2:This is my time, this is my working time and she's like yeah, I get that, but why don't you just be young and single and go on a holiday or something? And I'm like what am I going to do on a holiday? Just sit around, yeah, yeah, Sounds awful.
Speaker 1:Well, I can tell you from someone who's been in your position when I started the business and I was young, had no children, I was in a relationship and we did get married, but I did work my ass off during that time and I would say to you that the harder you work now, the less you're going to have to.
Speaker 1:You're creating doing some hard stuff now to create an easier future, or you can choose to have an easy stage now, but you're going to be continuing to have a harder future because you're going to have to play catch up. So it's very similar to people that and this might be a bit controversial but people that take maternity leave when their babies are born and it affects them Like they're choosing. That, which I actually think, is how do I want to say this without offending anyone it's potentially an easy option, but it's going to make your career harder in the future, where I actually chose to work and not take any maternity leave. But now that my children are in high school, now I've got flexibility and I reckon you need maternity leave when the kids are in high school, not when they're babies.
Speaker 2:That's my personal thought To really be there for the young adults that they're becoming Correct and give them that support that they need. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But so many people. They take that maternity leave early but then they're in a position where they actually have to get back to work for financial reasons. They have to work harder to catch up in their positions and their careers and then they can't be there for the kids when they're sick days and things like that. So, it is a little bit about choose your heart, but I can tell you right now that you will have a fantastic cruisy future with all the hard work you're putting in now. So tell your mum that.
Speaker 2:And I always, I always like say about you know, when you're older like I'm talking like you know, 55 to in your 80s that's when you need comfort and like that's when money does help. Yeah, like, right now I'm young, I don't need the luxuries of life, I can get by on pretty much skint stuff, yeah, and that's fine, just burn, burn and churn. And then when I'm older, I can, you know, have the nicer things, because I'll need it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I get that. I think mums are wonderful like that. Last year my mum made me cancel one of my trips. She was like you need to cancel something this year, like you've got too much on your plate, and I was like, okay, I'll cancel this one.
Speaker 2:And yeah, that's what mums are there, Poor m there. They always get the brunt of it Like you don't know. Yeah, I know and then six months later, I think you were right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, exactly. Now talk to me about taking over the legacy brand. How would you have described the brand before?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Before me, yeah, before you.
Speaker 1:Like when you purchased the brand or you purchased the business. Would you describe it as traditional old school Like? How would you describe it? So the brand?
Speaker 2:was a franchise, for it was originally Roy Weston, and then they obviously were bought out by Harcourts. So the business was Harcourts for 20, 25 years, okay. And then Chris made the decision to go boutique to be attractive for when someone wants to buy it. Okay, that was the point of Choice Property Group. Okay, there was no really and I know this from Chris firsthand, I hope he's okay with me sharing it there was no real like this wasn't his passion project or this wasn't his lifetime. I think he really enjoyed going boutique and he really enjoyed putting his heart and his stamp onto it. But it was only Choice Property Group for three years when I when, oh, so in December has been its third year.
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't think I knew that, so I think I just thought it was like a long, long history, so it was very much strategic from the start. How good's that. I mean good on him for being strategic that earlier on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep, so he knew, he knew he wanted to cut down some franchise fees and to make it that anyone could just buy it, buy it, move it, do whatever they needed to do with it, and so that is a big portion of why, you know, the refresh is coming in. It's to really assert the brand in there. It's not just a logo, it's not just something that we called ourselves. Now we are really affirming our you know our vision, our values, who we are in the footprint now, because it's still a young brand, so making sure that the company has been a legacy for 31 years, or 32 this year, but the brand is actually quite new. Yeah, so it's this really. I actually think it's a really beautiful time to do all of this now.
Speaker 1:So what parts of the brand did you know from the start that you wanted to keep true for the locals?
Speaker 2:keep true for the locals. The branding I spoke to a few marketing agencies originally and they were saying you know, lou, this is your time, this is your story. This is about you Rebrand, rebrand with what you want, and I was looking into that, but I think that the brand would never. Chris is such a part. He's the only reason it's here and this is his brand and I wanted to make sure that we do a refresh, but we keep it Choice Property Group and it is a nod to what Chris has done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he is a huge part of our community and he will remain a huge part of the local community plus our community, and I wanted to make sure that we continued the services that we provide. We are the only boutique and when we were a franchise, we were the only full service agency. When we were a franchise, we were the only full service agency. So we offer residential and commercial property management and sales, plus all the subdivisions and project development, which a lot of agencies don't offer the full scope. So that was something that I wanted to be very, very specific to continue.
Speaker 1:I don't know if there'd be a huge amount of offices in Perth that would offer the whole scope. Yeah, yeah, yeah, interesting. Do you know how many like? Or if it's Perth, no, nope, no, I would say that it'd have to. I mean, I don't know, I'm just trying to think of someone else that does the full scope, but that's, that's quite interesting.
Speaker 2:There are a few, yeah, and obviously franchises and they do their own thing. But, yeah, as a boutique and I thought that was very powerful to have a boutique to offer everything and then to have the franchise backing and obviously my corporate backing and that knowledge and those learnings to bring like a franchise into just one boutique. Yeah, Like all of those systems, all of that kind of stuff. Keep that but be very um tailor rule to our clients and our staff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so keeping all the services that you did. So nothing's changing internally and in terms of the actual the brand sort of keeping the name which was important and I assume a little bit of a just a little tweak visually.
Speaker 2:Yep, so it'll be slightly different. I really like the black, the bold, it's strong, changing a little bit of the orange going into more of a copper yeah, because that is a natural element in the Perth Hills that you can find. You can find it everywhere, but it's a natural element. I liked that, and then we'll be known as CPG. Yeah, so we're going to, yeah, just slowly be known as CPG over time. I like that. I'll still be trading as Choice Property Group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fantastic. Do you think it's easier or harder to take over an existing business and brand as opposed to completely starting from afresh? But you probably never started from afresh, so it's probably a hard question to ask you, I don't know.
Speaker 2:yeah, I suppose it's like you're trying to take over something, but you're trying to you have, like there's so much to take over, like bank accounts and licensing and compliance and all this kind of stuff that you're having to move over, plus running the company, to continue it at the standard it is at and then trying to, you know, put your own foot on it. It's like I heard someone say the other day. They were like yeah, it's like trying to fly a plane while building it. Yeah, Like you're like, oh my God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly what it's like. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I suppose having the footprint and having a legacy of what really works is good, having some really good staff, really loyal staff members that really care and that have been there for a while. So the knowledge there as opposed to you know you're starting off and you're kind of just getting a few managements and selling a few houses and then you're not having that income, the turnover. So I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I guess any situation is going to have a pain point. Like you said, yeah, at the start, the pain point is if you were starting afresh, it would be growing having that income for you it's, yeah, tweaking old habits or whatever it is, so it is probably a same same. I think that probably the biggest difference would just be sort of a financial one from the point of view. Sure, when you start up you don't need as much cash flow where, if you're buying one, you're starting off with a big loan but then you've also got probably a decent income coming through. So it's much for muchness isn't it, I suppose?
Speaker 2:and also just the kind of the attitude or not attitude, because I don't want that to be taken as poorly. But you know, updating outdated processes, systems, software, so all of that kind of stuff, and I suppose that comes into. Chris has always told me like slow down, just do it in a few years, and I'm like has to be done now. Yeah, yesterday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's like some of the overwhelm actually comes from me, Like if I just shut up and just paced a little bit, maybe I wouldn't be so overwhelmed. But I know that it will be easier for my staff. I know that we will be able to service our clients like we will have an elevated service when we do implement these things. And it's trusted and it's tried, tried and proven.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, tried and trusted. I was going to say tried and proven. Yeah, yeah, try and trust. I was going to say tried and trusted. Yeah, yeah, same same. How did you? Was there anything strategic that you had to plan to get your team on board with? You know, you're a I mean, I know that you sort of were in the business before, but you're still a new young person who's now taken on a different role in the business. Did you have to be and I'm sure there's pain points, and I don't necessarily want you to talk about pain points because you know you know they've always personal but the was there anything strategic you had to do to bring everyone in? Like, did it include more, I don't know more lunches or more like a great big launch day, or did you have to do anything specific? Um, no, everyone was pretty.
Speaker 2:Just, we were all pretty, I think, because I'd worked for the company for about six months as head of department, head of property management, before I even went 50 50 with Chris. And then, when I was 50 50 with Chris, I was still head of department, head of property management, for over a year and it wasn't until January that I stepped away from that head of property management. So I was so ingrained in the team, I was like one of them, I was getting told off by them Like I was. It wasn't like a I'm the boss now this is what we're doing. You know, I was in the trenches with them for most of it.
Speaker 2:So for 18 months leading up to they really got to see me working, they got to hear me, they got to see my work ethic and what I was doing. So they kind of I liked that camaraderie that we had, that they came along with me like it was our journey, yeah, and so that was nice. Some of the feedback that I got from our commercial property manager. She said you know, lou, like we want you to succeed because we like you, you're our mate.
Speaker 1:Yes, cool, and I think that because you've got that property management background and you will continue to be in the trenches with them, that you'll probably find that it throwing out.
Speaker 2:You know, a sales agent that decides to start a rent portfolio comes into the business, he's going to be seen differently than someone like yourself, and I think that they sometimes it is felt, you can feel it when you're a property manager and you're like you don't get it though a property manager and you're like you don't get it though. I think that was, you know, sometimes something that I had to deal with with. You know, organize not organizing kind of just explaining like just let the team have a laugh, let's go out, let's go have a lunch at the pub, come home, come back to the office and just have a debrief, like you need that a little bit more. I'm someone like that. I have that understanding of I will work harder when I'm looking after myself or just go for a walk a few times a day, like go have a nice cold water and go have a yarn with my mate. I'll come back and I'll be a lot more.
Speaker 2:I'll just be better A little sane, not about to yell at someone.
Speaker 1:Correct, correct I had that the other day. We'd had a really tough week at work and even though the problems weren't necessarily my problems, I still was feeling the problems that the property manager were having and still were helping consult and counsel them through them. And yeah, it got to Tuesday and I sent a message in the group chat and I said guys, I'm going to the pub tomorrow, I'm in Mandurah, I'll be at the pub for lunch. Whoever wants to come down, that's where I am. I need to change the scenery because I'm about to lose it and we had there was like a few of us that went down and doing those types of things I think are appreciated.
Speaker 1:It keeps you looking normal as well, and yeah, and the team do appreciate it.
Speaker 2:So having that attitude yeah, those you know pizza lunches or like, oh, we're going to do this. That's not really appreciated. It's kind of like when you're in there with them, like this is shit. Hey, yeah, like this is hard. Yeah, like this is hard. They're like right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's those I've spoken to many people about this where if you have what's the word? Things like just gosh I can't think of the word Not it's sort of expectations, where it's like every Friday we do this or every month we have this staff meeting and then what happens is the team grow to expect that it's an expectation, but those random things are appreciated so much more and that's something that I believe has made a big difference with our staff culture. It's the random acts of kindness or random stuff that's more appreciated and it goes as simple as like a cup of coffee. Like if someone was going to the shop randomly, I might go okay, who wants a coffee, and I'll go get the coffees. The next time someone else goes I'm going to go get coffees. Who's getting it? And it's just because it's just so random that coffee is so much more appreciated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know I had one of my PMs the other day and she turned around and I could just see the look on her face, like I just we do have a very close-knit team. But I looked at her and I said I'm going to go to the French patisserie, I want cake. And she's like okay. And I said come with me. And she's like I've got too much to do me. And she's like I've got too much to do. And I grabbed her and I said come with me when we were in the car and I was like you're a bit flustered, aren't you?
Speaker 2:And she's like, oh Lou, you have no idea. I think I needed to get out of the office, actually, and I'm like, yeah, have some cake.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly Exactly.
Speaker 2:We need to? Yeah, it's definitely. I think just having those moments of understanding like we're all human, and sometimes you just hit that point yeah and yeah, when you have a boss, I think that is not getting that and just wanting to continue that churn and burn is just detrimental to people, I think, more so than people realise. Yeah, like the burnout and the like, just the emotional pressure, especially when you even, like I was saying to someone the other day, like he was like oh, how are we going? I said there's no fight, there's no real fires to put out, there's nothing bad's happening in the portfolio, it's just the workload. Yeah, it's just the workload. Yeah, it's just that. That the volume you can. Yeah, it's just the work volume. Um, and you know, just having like someone to come in and just take over that for like half a day, can you just look after that while I bang my head against the wall?
Speaker 1:yeah, come back yeah, exactly, and then have a piece of cake and I'll be happy after that.
Speaker 2:So I suppose, yeah, what I'm trying to say is like I try and just be, try and organise my team enough that they're structured enough that I can be that floater and that cheerleader Team's cheerleader, like it's okay, I know that you guys are dealing with awful people sometimes. Yeah, and I'll sit in your chair while you go bang your head against the wall, so when you come back, all your emails are dealt with and that's the thing like your role and our roles is literally just to make their lives easier, and it's very much what I call that servant leadership.
Speaker 1:You're not I mean, yes, you're leading from the top, but you're actually leading from underneath, because it's basically you saying what do you need from me? And I will give it to you, whether it's cake, support time, whatever.
Speaker 2:And when you're leading from that base of just tell me what you need, very happy to do it Exactly. And so I had a really good meeting with the team the other day and I said to them look, this whole brand refresh and this whole thing that we're doing, it's really important. And it is really important and it's very public facing. But I want to make sure that it's internal as well, because it means nothing if it's just a pretty thing on the outside. And it's been. Really.
Speaker 2:I've been working really hard with what kind of leader I want to be when I'm the best leader, working really hard with what kind of leader I want to be. When I'm the best leader, what makes me, what makes me feel good and being able to support my team. And it's connecting, like when I'm connected to the business and to the team we fly, like it's when I'm you know I'm too chaotic, or I'm around like and I'm not giving, I'm not talking to my team, I'm like you know they're talking at me. I'm like, yeah, yeah, no worries, it's when I sit down and actually connect. We all work really really well.
Speaker 2:And so then I've implemented our one-on-ones, but our one-on-ones are not structured the way that I would have usually made our one-on-ones. You know one-on-ones can be very much like performance tracking or this or that. It's not that. You bring to me what you need. This is your time, and I need you to connect with me because I don't want to be guessing where you're at yeah, seeing what's happening. I want to hear if you want to share what's going on in your personal life and why things are happening or lo, this isn't working. We've brought in this new system. It's actually making my life harder. I want to hear that is your time to bring that to me. So that's. I'm really excited for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good approach and to have it very. That's one thing that I want to have very structured and never change, so I'm connected emotionally with the team and the business and knowing where they're at personally and as a group. Yeah, perfect, so Good approach.
Speaker 1:Hopefully it works. Last question for you who do you go to for support? Do you go to family friends, consultants? What does that look like for you, or a bit of both?
Speaker 2:I'm very varied. I'll go to different people for different things Business stuff. I have an amazing auntie. She's incredible with business and things that she's very good at problem solving. She's yeah, she's an incredible person. She's so dyslexic and she's created this incredible business. And just the way that her mind works and when she starts talking about it, it's like her personality changes and it's like, oh my God, you're so cool. And so sometimes I'll just ring her up and I'm like what the hell? And she'll just go like, oh yeah. And then Joe from the Efficiency Co. I ring him all the time. Yeah, poor kid.
Speaker 2:I know he does lots of hours in his car, he's fine, and then I don't know, I suppose, yeah, I'm very like I speak to Chris as well. Yeah yeah, he's obviously got the legacy of all the knowledge and everything like that, but he has this thing of just this no drum, nothing is too big, nothing is. He never freaks out, and that is, I think, how he's got that. 32 years of business ownership of successful business ownership as well is that it's just never been like everything can be negotiated, everything can be worked out.
Speaker 1:I say everything is figureoutable. Yes, I don't even know if that's a word, but I like to use that one.
Speaker 2:I was asked the other day about you know what makes someone a high performer, like what's the difference? And I was like I don't know. I think the difference between someone who is a high performer and someone who is just doing the job is that attitude. Everything can be worked out? Yeah, of course it can. And then everything just keeps going yeah, and it can be worked out eventually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everything can be solved, whether it's with time, money, action. You just have to work out what it is. That's the pain point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and sometimes just I and I'm learning the more I go is just asking the question pretty quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, stop assuming like just being like what, what's going on? Yeah, quick questions, quick answers, yeah, yeah, yeah no, that's perfect, amazing.
Speaker 1:well, I appreciate you sharing all that with us, because I think that there is a lot of people that in the in the world that don't naturally reach out to say, hey, I'm thinking of doing this, can I sit with you and, you know, have a chat, for, you know, over coffee, where what we try to create is that same sort of thing in these podcasts, that people that might be in that similar position can be like a little fly on the wall and listen to that conversation and go, oh, that's actually what I needed. And so, yeah, for those people that are in a similar situation, if you've got any questions for Lou or I, just reach out and we'll be happy to help as well and go into more detail on anything. But I think you're doing a great job. I love following you on socials and everything that you're doing. You're doing fabulous, so it's great to have you in here to share it all with us.
