PM Collective - The ART of property management
The ART of property management with Ashleigh Goodchild is a leading platform supporting collaboration not competition through an online community and events throughout the year with one purpose: to create happier property managers. She creates connections for property managers looking to create momentum in their careers and personal life. Join Ashleigh and her guests as they discuss challenges, struggles, mental health, mindset and give advice to property managers and anyone in the industry. To get the support in your property management career, join our PM Collective Facebook and Instagram community.
PM Collective - The ART of property management
Career Alignment in Property Management
Join us for a great conversation with Pat Mears from Rubix Realty Property Management, who shares his remarkable journey from a high school graduate to a property management expert. Discover how Pat's commitment to his values and interests led him to resist the allure of sales and instead embrace a career offering stability and routine, ultimately leading to long-term success.
Starting from humble beginnings in a home office to establishing Rubix Realty, hecandidly discusses the challenges of balancing work and family life, especially during the pandemic years, and how it led him to rediscover his passion through social media and video content and ultimately getting back to basics.
Pat guides us through how he has structured his business, what the next growth plan is and his favourite tech stack to use.
Hope you enjoy the listen as much as I did the conversation!
Business owners are building their rental portfolios faster than ever and Property Managers can’t possibly do it all!
Keep your property managers doing what they love and outsource the things they don’t to a company that thrives on positive feedback and guarantees a premium personalised service
www.propertyassistwa.com.au
The PIP Advantage for Landlord Insurance
Up to $70,000 contents cover included in our landlords policies
14 months cover for just 12 months premium in your first year
Further discounts when you have three or more properties insured through PIP
24/7 Australia-wide claims service
Online Real Estate Agent Portal for easy access and management
Visit their website
The team at The Grout Guy are the leading experts in regrouting, waterproofing, and tiling services nationwide. Property managers find comfort in their 10-year waterproof warranty on all full shower regrouts.
Visit thegroutguy.com.au to rejuvenate your properties tiles and grout now!
www.thegroutguy.com.au
All right, I am really excited today to have someone who I follow a lot on social media, but I don't think to this day we've actually spoken on Zoom, and that is Pat Mears from Rubik's Realty.
Speaker 1:Welcome, Thank you, good to be here and we have been following each other for a while. I know you've done property profiling and I see you a lot on socials. So well done for showing up on socials in the first place A lot of people don't, so it's really good to see you there. But for those that don't know you, I'll start off by just getting you to do a little bit of an intro about sort of who you are, what you do and maybe how you got to Rubik's Realty. And maybe how you got to Rubik's Realty.
Speaker 2:Okay. So I was in year 11. High school would have been 17,. Didn't want to be there. Mum was a school teacher, dad was a TAFE teacher. So my two options were go on to year 12, get a job. And I took get a job. So I applied for a real estate job. That was just part-time, um, and came out of the interview and they'd offer me a traineeship, hopped in the car and said to mom I'm leaving school, I've got a full-time job and I've been doing it, yeah, for 22 years. So always done property management. I have worked in sales offices. Never saw property management as a stepping stone into sales. So after 22 years, I guess I'm either crazy or I enjoy it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so did you say that you started off in sales then?
Speaker 2:No, no, no in property management as a trainee, so straight into property management.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, have you thought about doing sales or any other parts of real estate?
Speaker 2:Probably had thought about it like because that's just, you know, it was part and parcel. And then the business that I did my traineeship with got bought out by a property management only business which 20 years ago was pretty unheard of in our area and I guess it was sort of, you know, always knew I wanted to own my own business and that's why I sort of just stayed in it, I guess, to the stability, having an income, not having to work Saturdays, so you know, when you're 18, 19 and going out on a Friday night you don't have to, you know, get yourself prepped for an open home to sell a property. So yeah, I just liked the Monday to Friday, I think, just that stability of knowing that you know you've got the same pay and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and what was your parents' thought with you getting into real estate?
Speaker 2:So it was actually my dad's encouragement. So we used to do a family trip to the Gold Coast every September, school holidays, which from where we live is about eight to 10 hours drive. And my dad was a little bit into property investing. He taught trust accounting at TAFE and then so he worked alongside the real estate guy there and yeah, so that's how he sort of got introduced to property investment. He'd buy property investment books so I've read John Fitzgerald, jan Summers, that were my beginning property investment books. So you know polished one of those off on the way to the Gold Coast and another one on the way back and dad sort of said you realize that this is part of real estate. You know there's some people who just manage property, collect the rent, do the inspections, all that sort of thing, and I was like, yeah, okay, so I just sort of stuck with it. So I guess in a traineeship I was reception admin, property officer. The sales team did try to get me over to do a few things, but the lady who was the property manager at the time didn't want to share me. So I just stayed in property management. I've listed and sold one house and I did not enjoy it. And you know people say, what about the commissions? But it's not really I don't know, it's not about the money.
Speaker 2:I was approached by a property developer this could be eight years ago or something and they wanted to expand their client base and asked me if I would, you know, send information out to my database and they would pay me a commission for any that. I sort of sent their way and I said, oh, you know, come and have a chat. And I was sort of thinking, you know, like I don't have to do the listing and all that sort of stuff. It's basically hey, are you interested in buying? This is what we've got, yes or no? So I thought, you know, maybe a grand or two as a referral fee.
Speaker 2:And it was nearly $40,000 per sale. And at that point I was like, well, that client that I'm selling to has paid $40,000 too much. So I just withdrew from that. And that's when I was sort of like it's just, it wasn't for me. Ten sales, I'll be living very nicely. But at the same time it didn't fit right with me doing that. You know, making that sort of money for basically connecting someone who's already on my database with a property um, you know, getting paid at the time four times more than what the average sale commission was for doing a lot less so it's interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 1:because there's definitely two personality types in real estate. And I actually have someone who's coming in to do some shadowing with me this week and she is an older lady. She thinks she wants real estate, but it's just about finding the right part for her personality and that's the thing that I love, like if you are a complete introvert and you might just want to do trust accounting or you know data or admin, or if you're an extrovert, you might want to do sales or BDME, if you are someone who likes a bit of a mix of everything in property management. But there's a personality type for every position in real estate and it's about finding the right one and without sort of dishing on sales reps and without sort of dishing on sales reps but you know they do have that type of drive for those commissions and all of that and really like froth over all of that. But a property manager always comes from a and I don't want to say sales aren't helping, but it's a different type of nurturing that a property manager comes from.
Speaker 1:And I had actually a situation the other day where there was a fire in a property tenant's fault. Their child lit the room up while they were out shopping and I they had an excess to pay and the tenants couldn't afford it. And I said, listen, I'm going to pay that excess and you can pay me back. And because we couldn't get the works done until that's done, and I'm going to pay that excess and you can pay me back, and because we couldn't get the works done until that's done. And I'm not suggesting everyone can go out and pay an excess at all, but I'm just showcasing that nurturing side.
Speaker 1:And I had said to the owner hey, just so you know, this is what I've done, I've paid for it, they're going to pay me back, not going to affect you there, but just wanted you to know what I've done in the background. And she said she didn't have to do that, you could have just asked me. And I said, no, it's actually not your problem, no, like so I was very happy to do it. I wouldn't do it for everyone, but this situation I would. And it's just the personality and that nurturing that makes people love being a property manager and that's what you have just showcased there that taking those large commissions just for helping someone doesn't feel right in the gut to do that no, it was just.
Speaker 2:I was just like gobsmacked and like and that was his introduction when he came into the meeting was this is what we pay, what do you think? And I was like, yeah, that's great. And then the rest of the meeting, I don't even know how long he was there, but my head was just going this, this bloke's a rort sort of thing you know like, because he was a sales rep for the company. So what's he making off each like what's? What's the actual build cost after you deduct all the um commissions along the way? Yeah, I like this place is not going to be a very healthy build if that's what they're paying out for just a name to sell to. So, yeah, so that was, that was. Yeah, I was. I guess that was my moment where I was like, yeah, it's not, definitely not about the money. And it didn't fit right with me knowing that that you know investor would have paid 40 grand too much just to give me my piece of the cake.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely I agree. So you got into property management at a young age then and then you sort of learned all the parts of it. Did you do a bit of BDMing, or did you just stick with your property management and then decide to go open your own business?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I stuck with property management. So the first business where I did my traineeship, I left the office once to do an ingoing, and that was because the property manager was off. And they're like do you know how to do one? I said yeah, so off, I went and did that Back on the three copy carbon paper, oh anyway. So then that was the only time I did go out, tag along to a couple of routine inspections with the property manager. But they're like, oh, I can't afford for you both to be, you know, out at the same time. I was like, okay, anyway, so I basically spent the time in the office and then when we were bought out by this other company, the boss retired and all of a sudden I was handed, say, 180 properties. We had a senior property manager above me, another property officer managing about the same, and suddenly it was like, okay, these are your routine inspections. No-transcript proper training, because I hadn't been out of the office.
Speaker 2:And I think back now, 22 years later, I had no idea really what I was doing. You had like the basic concepts but didn't really know how to handle certain situations, but also I didn't have life experience. You know, like that I do now and even now, 22 years later, I'm still learning things. I still have a situation I'm like, well, where does that come from? Sort of thing. So I did that. I stayed there for a couple of years and then went and worked for another company. I stayed there about 12 months, still really good friends with the boss there and her family. They've been to our wedding and I went to their son's wedding. So that's great. You know, like we left on good terms. She knew why I was leaving and all that sort of thing, and we've just maintained a great relationship. And then I went out on my own. I, yeah, just started doing rental appraisals and all that sort of thing, and it'll be 15 years in July since I started Rubik's Realty.
Speaker 1:And what drove that? Or was it always that? Eventually you knew that you'd be a business owner and it was just the right time?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I always knew I'd be a business owner. I remember sitting in a little lunchroom as a 17-year-old and the boss at the time said do you think you're on your own real estate? One day I was just like yeah, and he's like good, good to see, and that's what he asked and he walked off. But I did what do you call it?
Speaker 2:At school I did, like a week you go and work at someone's business and it was a real estate office and it was mother and son and they started from zero and they did mainly property management but dabbled in sales. And I think when I saw that that was for me like this is what I want to have. So I started off in at home in a bedroom and then I looked at putting a staff member on. So I moved into a serviced office and then it grew and I had two employees and I rented a bigger space and then one left for personal reasons and then the other one left and it was just me. But I was still, I think, because I'd grown it from zero. I, my capacity, grew with it. So I wasn't sort of walking into a job and going, oh wow, I've got X amount of properties. This is crazy. It was just my abilities and capabilities had grown as the business grew and then COVID hit, so no one could come into my office apart from me. So I got rid of a massive rental bill and I moved back home.
Speaker 2:So I'm back working from home again, which has its challenges. I've got a two and a half year old and I've got a one year old. So some days when Meg works I'll be at home with the boys. They still have nap time, which is great, so that's a really productive two to three hours to get things done. And I just kind of cruised. I guess probably for the last, not last year the last 12 months I've been really pushing it with socials and that sort of thing, but probably the three years from covid um, I don't know if it was burnout, but I just took my foot off the pedal. I was comfortable with what I was earning, comfortable with the workload, and then, um, yeah, like had a lot of sales hit, so I've lost quite a lot of properties to sales and I'm basically just was treading water, like replacing.
Speaker 2:You know, two would sell to sales and I'd pick up three or four and then you know, it was just a circle going around and I started listening to podcasts and I know what to do, like the basics are basic, what you've got to do, like the basics are basic, what you've got to do to get out there to bring in the business. But just hearing other people's experiences and their stories, I was so amazed how many people just fell into property management. I was like what do you mean? Am I the only person who actually had a night? This is what I want to do with my life and I'm like they just failed you. So yeah, and then I started listening to it and it was all like really about around the um video content, which I hadn't done before.
Speaker 2:But also I started thinking back to the basics when I first started. How did I grow initially? And it was just that extra contact being available and that sort of thing. So I kind of I'm back to where I kind of started, like 14 and a half years ago, and it's kind of really I found my passion again for the industry. Like there's been multiple times over the last 22 years where I've just been like what am I doing?
Speaker 2:But I think the thing that stopped me from pursuing another career is property management is so challenging and sometimes it's a welcome challenge and sometimes it's not. But I worry that if I went and did another job, would I be there going. This is so boring, you know, like I don't enjoy this. And one of my really good friends she's a property manager she just down the road actually and um herself and another friend, but like colleagues, so I think they've kept well, the three of us have kept each other sane, like we've got a group chat and it's like so this just happened. This is where my emotions are, and then we just sort of bring each other back to and it might just be hey, this is a situation, this is what I'm thinking of doing, and then you get two different perspectives and you still do what you were going to do, but you've just sort of just that bit of chat, I guess, to see what do you think and and you're definitely not alone in property management, you know and and that's um.
Speaker 1:That's why the coffee conversations that we have around um australia are so good, because it's literally just sitting with other people who get it and can maybe go oh, actually, I had one of those situations that come up this is what I did or even to the confidence, say, yes, you should go, go back and tell that client. So having that support is really, really important, and I know a lot of people who have been out of property management but then got back in have said that they've really needed that support. So, like you said, you've got a group chat fantastic. Other people might have the coffee catch-ups. Other people might even just listen to a podcast, um to to hear those stories, to make themselves feel better about um, about, yeah, their situation, that they're in um, or just give them a little bit motivate and more motivation as well. Um. So, at the moment, as it stands, then what's? How many properties do you have and how many staff?
Speaker 2:um. So I'm managing 160 um, which is, and then I've got a virtual assistant um, and that was something I'd put off for a long time. Like my mortgage broker is a bit of a mentor. I mentioned it to you when we did the um. I went to that um pm summit last year and he talked about the annual investor audits and she kept telling me like when you do your annual catch-up and I'm like I'm like you know, you may know rent reviews, she's like, yeah, but this is when you have these conversations and then and then suddenly like you're there and I'm like, oh, and I remember texting you going you'll keep going on about this, and I'm finally like it's unlocked, so, um. So she was always like get a virtual assistant, it'll really help you.
Speaker 2:And I put it off, kept putting people on the ground, and then it was like what have I got to lose? So I employed someone. She'd been with me about 18 months and, because I'm so mobile, if I had to approve someone, I'd take the laptop with me and I'd pull up on the side of the road at nine o'clock and be like, hey, you've applied, you've been approved, and then I'd enter him into property me, and now it's just google chat. Hey, this has been approved, blah blah, and by the time I get back at midday I can have a deposit in the account and that one's wrapped up, and it's just like. Just, you don't realize how many little things churn your time so it's collecting minutes.
Speaker 1:I say to everyone and people will sit there and go, but that only takes me five minutes, that only takes me two minutes, that only takes me 10 minutes, but they all add up into about six hours a day definitely so.
Speaker 2:I've now just started last week um a part timer, um to sort of focus on my leasing, um and ingoing side of things, because that's probably the next area, that's the most time consuming for me, and we'll just see how that develops and where that goes and hopefully get us to 200 by the 30th of June.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to ask what your next step was. So, and that's good to get someone in now to get you to that next level. I mean, you can't get to that next level without, you know, having that support in. And I find that a lot of people don't think of that future, that future self or that future business enough and they wait until they get completely you you know unindated with work or their teams are completely stressed. But I, personally, what I do is I try to employ someone three or four months prior to it I'm prior to me needing them, and that allows them to come into a calm office, enough time for training and to build that capacity. And it's good when you can get your business to a point where you can afford three or four months of wages before you need it like.
Speaker 1:I think it's a good goal. So for me, when I'm looking at capacity, I have a look at my team. So at the moment I'm actually I'm going to have to start thinking about my next move because I've got capacity for probably, let's say, 50 properties. So, on my team, using existing labor, and then I would go okay, well, if our office is bringing in 25 properties per month, hypothetically, then we would go okay, well, that's two months before I'm going to need someone. But you know, sometimes we have a little bit of a drop off or whatever it might be. So really, let's say, three months, I'm going to need someone in that seat. I need to start looking now so that we're not looking when we physically need that.
Speaker 1:So that's just something for the listeners to listen to Always know what your capacity is for new business right now and, yeah, match that with your new business coming through to know when that next person is needed or potentially. You know we've got more support happening with our VAs. We've increased our VAs actually to give some more one-on-one support. But you're doing pretty well, because 160 with a VA is and a part-timer, that's good, really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting when you see on the property management pages I don't know how many times a week it gets asked, and I do have to stop myself from saying stuff sometimes when someone's like I'm managing 80, and I'm like okay, but all the factors come into play. You know like I took my new part-timer out to do routines last Tuesday and I just sort of explained that I grouped them around each other and we were like literally like it was a hot day but the air conditioner hadn't kicked back in by the time we pulled up. At the next one she's like, oh, you weren't joking. And I'm like, yeah, like just save so much time. And then maybe one day a month I've got three. But they're like here, there and you know I'm all over the place because they just don't fit in with any other grouping. It's just, you've just got to be smarter with your time. I think you know just, yeah, manage it a bit better.
Speaker 1:We've got one of our new girls where she where our office and where she lives and where her portfolio is is about 40, 50 minutes away. So what we've done is with her planning and her time management. We've said, okay, for the next month, have a look at what tenants are vacating and, on the day they're vacating, arrange for the routine inspections to be also done in that area the following day so that your final bond annual routines are done on the same day while you're in the area. It's just about those little tiny planning things that you do, um, and and, like you said, grouping your inspections together. But the this is the problem that I've got and it actually drives me up the wall and and I'm now, you know, um, exposing my annoyance.
Speaker 1:When people ask that question how many people should a property, you know, how many properties should property manager manage? And then when people don't give a direct answer and people go in there and go, oh well, there's so many factors. It depends on if their houses and their units and their areas like. I know that everyone knows that every single portfolio is diverse. Every single portfolio has its things. So therefore, all portfolios are somewhat the same because they all have a mix of dwellings. They all have a mix of areas. So let's remove that off the table and let's just get down to the numbers and the numbers.
Speaker 1:I would actually look at it as a department as opposed to an actual one property manager per portfolio. Um, and as a department, you know, you, you might be looking, um, you know, whatever your number is, that works like whether it's 100 properties per um person or 150 per person. But if you work on 100, 120 per person or 150 per person, but if you work on 100, 120 per person, that's actually not a portfolio of 100, 120. It's taking into account the trust account, the BDM, the department manager, the VAs. It's taking into account all these people and if you've got 10 people on that team, you know, including your VAs, then technically you should be able to have around 1,000 properties on a portfolio. It doesn't matter what individual jobs they're all doing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's as a department.
Speaker 1:So that's what I work with and so yours works out, because that's sort of, you know, getting to that 200, maybe low 200s is perfect for a one and a half people in a VA like yeah, definitely but don't you feel like some people? They just look at that little number on the bottom of property me or whatever program you're using and they get fixated on it and they go I can't manage anymore. It's like property me. Can you please remove that number so we don't know how many properties we manage? We just do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it. And I think if businesses worked on a model of we're going to pay you this much per management, then I think the problem is someone goes from earning this managing 120 at this office and then the next office wants to pay him the same because that's the norm. But to manage more or less, and I think, two, you become comfortable with what you're managing. So with the last place I was employed, we had about 150 160 properties and there was a property manager. Myself and reception did our like, leases and applications and that sort of thing, and I came in and introduced all these efficiencies into the office and at a certain point I got stopped, and it wasn't because I was making too many changes. They weren't comfortable with it.
Speaker 2:This is my opinion. They were struggling to justify their time because I'd, instead of something taking two hours, it was now taking 30 minutes or something you know like. But even like and we didn't have a we probably the furthest property would have been 15 minutes from the office, like you know um around circle, but I would be like well, that's the corner. I'm going to do my inspections today and then next week I'll do this corner. So instead of, like you know, if you're going from this end to this end, that's 30 minutes in the car that you don't need to do and it's like, well, that's even just, you've saved yourself 15 minutes on that day. But if you add that up over a month, that's an hour that you've saved, and it just depends what you're going to do with that time that you've banked up.
Speaker 1:Yeah I mean. But imagine as a property manager, you do your job and you get it right down, super efficient, and you are now managing, let's just say, 150 properties, really quite easily. You've got it all well handled. And then let's say that you're starting to get that down to 25 hours of work a week and you're like, okay, I can't look like I'm fluffing around for 15 hours a week it's getting a little bit obvious.
Speaker 1:Then imagine being able to go to your boss and saying, okay, I'm really doing well with my portfolio, I'm doing 150 properties, I'm really managing my time really really well. I think I could actually handle some more. What are your thoughts about increasing my portfolio to this and adjusting my salary to this? Would that be something that is you know, you're open to? And I mean I think most business owners would probably say, yeah, sure, if you can manage that, you know in a really good timely, you know fashion, then yeah, you should be rewarded for that.
Speaker 1:But I also don't necessarily believe that someone should be penalised for really having some great time management as well. So I say to my girls all the time, like I would love for you to be able to do your job in 25 hours a week. Like good on you, because if you can manage a high portfolio and you choose to keep the time as opposed to getting more money, then that suits you and that keeps you happy. It keeps you in the position longer, everyone's happy and as a business, you should be happy because you've got low-stress staff, a well-managed portfolio and hopefully, someone who stays with you long-term. So I mean sort of a win-win Like. Instead, don't worry about the fact that, um, yeah, they've been able to to do it quickly yeah, well, that's it like you.
Speaker 2:Can you either look at it I'm paying you for 38 hours or to be present 38 hours a week, or am I managing you to paying you to manage this many properties? Yeah, so I mean you think when you have a short week due to a public holiday or something, you get five days worth of work done in four. You know like because like I don't want anything waiting and it just you just get it done.
Speaker 1:So yeah, there's always going to be curly situations that come up. So sure your property manager might have a really good week where they've you know they've been able to take it easy, but then the following week they might have a really good week where they've you know they've been able to take it easy, but then the following week they might have a really curly situation that takes up their time for seven days. So I feel like it's a bit of give and take and I think, like you said, managing a portfolio is sort of the headspace that I try to get into. I pay you to manage a portfolio. I'm not paying you for an exchange of time. So you know, I would rather that stress-free property management that you know I hold a lot of value for as well.
Speaker 1:So the more we talk about that and the more business owners listen to that, then hopefully they will sort of start getting that too, and I think property management directors get that. Sales-led directors don't. So it's really and unfortunately they're the ones that don't listen to this podcast, but the ones that probably should, because that would be beneficial for them. Maybe I'll take that little snippet out and put that on my socials about. You know why a sales led director should be listening to the podcast. Um. Now a couple of questions for you to um finish off. The first question I've got is what programs are you using in your business? What um what software?
Speaker 2:uh, so property me for the trust accounting? Um, we use that, so we use a lot. I actually did a review recently and where, if we start using me pay, we'll be at 95 use of the program. We were using external inspection software but now that property me is doing the 360 inspections you know it's. Yeah, I just went back to that. Um, so far it's working out well. We use virtual tours creator for our 360 tours online. Um. We use adl forms, which have just gone online. Um. I've been with adl forms well. I first used them 22 years ago and um I've just sort of stuck with them and they've gone online and there is teething issues. But they're very open to feedback and the price was a lot more competitive than other options. But I think, too, they understand that this is a new transition for them, so they're happy to trade off that extra money for feedback to get it right. What other? We just use Ignite for our applications and I've just started on IRE BDM very recently.
Speaker 1:And what about your like viewings and home opens? Just through Ignite, so yeah, Is that a 24-7 scheduling or not? You just put it in your diary.
Speaker 2:We just put it in. So we ring the inquiry and make a time and then we ring the next person and direct them to that one. But if that doesn't suit and it's vacant, then we create another one. We just advertise them online. So we encourage them to register so that if we do cancel because we've approved someone from an earlier inspection, they get a notification so they don't waste their time turning up. But as we grow, the more vacancies we have, I'll look towards using IRE's inspection software as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that'll make life easier. So if you've only just started using IRE BDM, what were you doing before? The good old excel spreadsheet yeah, there you go, look at you and bouncing with uh, with IRE BDM yeah, your life is about to change.
Speaker 2:I hope so. I hope it's gonna, yeah, push us forward to achieve that goal, um, by the due date and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:So Now can I just tell you real quick because my laptop battery is about to go flat. But I want to give you three tips on IRA. Bdm is just to make sure, and you might already have this done, but I have three campaigns set up. So I've got my campaign for new investors that don't yet have a property and are looking for one, like property profiling campaign. The second one is for people that contact your office and have a property, want you to manage it. And the third is for any lead generation that you're doing where it might be a completely cold lead and you're putting them in as a cold lead. And then they're the three different types of campaigns I would have.
Speaker 1:And my second favorite thing to have to use in it is the short links. So the short links. So I have them set up on my website so if I'm out on the road and someone calls up about property management, I can say listen, I'm just out on the road at the moment, but if you head over to our website you can actually download our fee package straight away. And when they use that short link it goes into my database, automatically, sends them their email with a fee package and it just is good from a time management point of view. So I'm sure there's lots of other features, but they're the two that I use and I just love.
Speaker 2:I love that you send out the fees like you don't pre-qualify. They are what they are. I don't negotiate, so I'm just like, well, this is what it is and see what comes back. And if they're fee shopping, they're not someone that I necessarily want on our books anyway.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I mean you just have to think about the time that you take. I mean there's definitely benefit for people to get you know belly to belly and make those phone calls and we still do phone call follow-ups as well off that database. But it's just a time management thing for us. It makes our life easier. It's a process you know it's a bit easier. Or what you might be able to do is if you get someone a new client that messages you, you know do is if you get someone a new client that messages you a um, you know their details to send an email with a fee package. Sometimes I also screenshot that and just send it to my va and then my va just pops them in, which is means that you're it's getting done while you're out on the road and you're having to send it in the evening.
Speaker 1:So that's another real quick way of um managing it using a va. I find that that's pretty helpful as well. But that's it. That's really exciting. And if you were my last question for you, if you were to go back to you know, having to find new business, as, like day one of being a business owner or BDM, what's the first thing you would do? How would you spend your first day?
Speaker 2:I think I would make the video content because it seems to give me the most traction. I've just started using Ellen Bathgate for socials, so she did my first article and a buyer's agent I've been following on LinkedIn has rang me based off that article and he said I've seen some of your stuff and then I've read that article. It was great and I think we can work together and I was like Amazing. Yeah, so that was really helpful.
Speaker 1:My two favourite things LinkedIn and video content.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very good.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad that worked for you and that's definitely a lesson for everyone to hear that, yeah, you, if you do the video content, it just makes it so much easier for people just to get to know you, um, and get you and feel comfortable making that first phone call. So it's, yeah, so important yeah, definitely amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for your time. It is lovely to uh, for other people, to listen to someone else's journey, what they're up to, programs they use. You know, um, how they've got their department set up, what their next step is, which you've talked about. Um. All of that is super helpful for people that are that are also in a similar position as you, so I really appreciate you sharing that, um, and I will talk to you soon no worries, thank you.