PM Collective - The ART of property management
The ART of property management with Ashleigh Goodchild is a leading platform supporting collaboration not competition through an online community and events throughout the year with one purpose: to create happier property managers. She creates connections for property managers looking to create momentum in their careers and personal life. Join Ashleigh and her guests as they discuss challenges, struggles, mental health, mindset and give advice to property managers and anyone in the industry. To get the support in your property management career, join our PM Collective Facebook and Instagram community.
PM Collective - The ART of property management
Working with Purpose in Property Management
In this episode, the host and Leigh Sinclair, from Imagine Futures, explore the vital role property managers play in supporting their communities, especially tenants facing financial difficulties. The discussion centers on "working with purpose," highlighting proactive measures and community engagement.
Key takeaways include:
- Community Resources: Adding financial counseling links to email signatures to raise awareness.
- Communication: Providing resource information throughout the tenancy to foster comfort in seeking help.
- Education: Property managers familiarizing themselves with local support services.
- Cost of Living Crisis: Recognizing and empathizing with tenants' struggles.
- Cost-Effective Solutions: Implementing supportive strategies with minimal effort.
- Resource Availability: Utilizing statewide resources for financial, tenancy, and mental health support.
- Encouragement for Action: Making small, impactful changes to support tenants.
This episode underscores the importance of early intervention, open communication, and leveraging available resources to create a supportive community environment.
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Good morning everyone, or good afternoon, whatever time you are listening to this podcast. I am really excited to have a lady that I have recently met, and we are going to be continuing our discussions along the working with purpose, how we are in a privileged position of being property managers and how we can help our communities, and so I'm delighted to have Leigh from Imagine Places joining us today. Leigh, thanks for jumping on board.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm really delighted to be here today.
Speaker 1:So we'll start off just by you just maybe explaining your role a little bit more and what you do in our community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, so I'm the Executive Director of Imagined Futures, which is what's known as a place-based partnership. That's really looking at bringing together people from all parts of our community so all levels of government, not-for-profits, business, philanthropy to bring all those parts around the table to look at complex social issues that we have in our community at the moment. So we know that no one part of the community can solve these issues on their own, and so the power of the Imagine Futures partnership is that we can have those conversations and actualise different parts of the community to play different roles as well.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So I just realised I think I introduced you as Imagine Places. Didn't I Not Imagine Futures? Sorry, I know.
Speaker 2:Don't you worry. It's a common thing that people get a little bit confused about the name. So anyway, yes, it is Imagine Futures.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, excellent, and I hadn't heard of this organization before. So it's very important that we talk about these community and complex issues so we can bring attention to it and in that way we can sort of help use our positions to do better. So can you just talk to me about what you? You were introduced to me and you were holding an event, I think, down in Mandurah in Perth. What was that one about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so actually, I just happened to go along to that event to see if it's something that we could do in our local region because, as I realised I omitted to say, one of the key things about Imagine Futures is that we focus most of our efforts on the three local government areas of Coburn, melville and Fremantle.
Speaker 2:This is all about really having, you know, being able to get a really deep understanding of region and mobilise resources in place.
Speaker 2:So I was invited to go along to that workshop by the WA Alliance to End Homelessness, which is a fantastic collective who are really implementing these amazing sort of strategies to eradicate chronic homelessness in our community, which is fantastic.
Speaker 2:And they had teamed up with the Peel Community Development Corporation to put on this wonderful event that really brought together property managers with local community sector organisations to talk about how property managers might be able to support their clients better when they start to hit rough times. We know that the earlier that we connect people to help, the better the outcomes, and so, and you know, and again, a lot of this work, this about bringing together people that wouldn't ordinarily connect so that we can deepen our understanding of each other's operating environments. And once you start to do that then you can start to see all these opportunities for doing things differently, and often it's quite small tweaks, but it's like, oh, I didn't understand, I didn't quite realize that, or you know, it's so if we can have these forums, we can open up these conversations and we can discover new ways of doing things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what we sort of continued the chat with on a Zoom shortly after that. And I said to you just before we probably could have just recorded that conversation and uploaded that as a podcast, because it was quite interesting. It definitely opened up my eyes of just some really obvious things that I could do in our business straight away. That cost me nothing, it's helpful and that's what we're going to talk about in a moment. You shared with me a really interesting stat, which I sort of didn't know, but it made sense, and it was something along the lines of people sort of seem to struggle for about 12 months before they actually reach out for some serious help. Can you just talk a little bit more about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this is some work that's been done by the Financial Wellbeing Collective, and they have realised that people on average have been in financial difficulty for a full 12 months before they get to the point where, often in desperation, they will reach out for help. But we know, you know, it's a really frustrating thing because we know if they had reached out at the beginning of that 12 months, there's a whole lot more options available and more that can be done and a whole lot of stress that can be avoided. It's such a wonderful thing that is available through the Financial Wellbeing Collective and, you know, it's just worth having a phone call and just checking out with the financial counsellors if there's anything available. There might not be, but there is a whole suite of things that people don't often know about.
Speaker 2:So there's nothing to lose but a lot to gain, and one of the things that we're really keen to do is encourage people to act early, and one of the struggles that we have in the community sector is often that we don't actually know those people because they haven't we haven't had any interaction with them. They're those people that are sort of the next level out. So that's where property managers really come into the picture here that that relationship is already there and you may also you may be able to identify those people and then sort of at least let them know about what's available, very powerful and provide that little bit of a warm referral, a little bit of encouragement. You know it is hard to pick up the phone sometimes and ask for help. So if somebody's just a little bit understanding, don't need to be an expert but just say look, this is really normal, it's hard out there at the moment Give these people a call, they're great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a situation this week. A tenant has been in arrears. He had accessed the rent relief grant that we have here in WA, so that had sort of been exhausted and we just couldn't get a hold of him, despite trying and trying and trying and this problem started in July. He finally has called me this week and I haven't spoken to him at all because there has been other people that have called on his behalf because obviously he was embarrassed he had gone into a downward spiral as well and we are now at the point of court. And he called me up and I explained was telling the owner why it's really important that we try and keep this healthy relationship with him and I was absolutely not going to tear him to shreds, even though I was really, you know, pissed off at the situation. But when he called up and I didn't know who it was, when I answered the phone and I said hello, stranger, and you know, try to keep it all quite nice, light hearted, I said it's so good to hear from you. I said you know what's going on. Anyway, we had a really, really good discussion, we worked together. He indicated that he thinks it's better that he breaks his lease and I said you know what? Like a very mature decision. I think that's a great idea. I said you leave me with the owner, I'm going to deal with the fees, you don't have to worry about that. You just tell me when you know it's going to be good for you to be able to vacate the property.
Speaker 1:And so we had a good conversation in a crappy situation. But there was no point going down the frustration path with him, like the next best thing is to to work together, and I just wish that and I did. I think I did say this to him. I wish he did reach out earlier because I can. I can help um with different ideas, but yeah, it does get to a point and I feel like it's tenants just get to a point where it's um, it just spirals so far and they don't have the ability to get out of that hole.
Speaker 1:And I've mentored, in a way, a couple of really young tenants as well and try to help them and in my mind I think maybe they don't have a sister or a mom or family that can actually get them out of this rut they're in. And I'm trying, I'm saying trying to say to them listen, just pay $100 a week. If that's all you can afford, just pay $100 a week, let's just keep it ticking over. Let's not, you know, let's not, you know, catastrophize this. Just let's just make little baby steps, because if you make little baby steps, for me I can actually help you and I can actually, you know, pacify the owner for a little bit longer for you.
Speaker 1:I'm stuck, I'm stuck. So if people don't want to necessarily have that conversation with us which I sort of I understand, like I do totally understand it then let's look at some options of what we can do subtly in our role that can put it in front of them without physically having to have that conversation as well. So the first one is you mentioned it to me and I think the idea had come from Alicia about putting a link for this financial counselling on the breach notice or termination notice when we send it out to the clients. So, property managers, you're sending out a breach notice. Why not include in that email if you are struggling? Or you know, here's a link of, yeah, how we can help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there are people that are available that can help, and just providing a list. So in WA the Financial Wellbeing Collective is available to anybody in the state and that's freely available.
Speaker 1:It's not means-tested or anything like that. No, no.
Speaker 2:So it's an amazing resource, but also there are a range of other supports that may be a little bit more locally based. So it's worth reaching out also to your local government, who often have a list of those supports and, and, and just perhaps you know, adding two or three other numbers in there as well. And again, because it can be a little bit fraught, people have all sorts of perceptions about property managers and things, so they may be reluctant to have that conversation, which is understandable. So, like you said, it's so important that we can give people other options that may be a little bit less threatening to them. The other suggestion that came up at that workshop down in mandra was that perhaps this information could even be sent out at the beginning. You know when a lease is being signed, so before any, before there's any sign of trouble. So again, we're looking to just plant a seed in people's minds.
Speaker 2:So once you hit, you know, or if you hit sort of tough times, you're like, oh, that's right, I saw somewhere that maybe there is something that's available.
Speaker 2:And then if that is followed up again with information when a breach notice is issued, then that again further cements it. Information when a breach notice is issued, then that again further cements it, because we know that communication is really hard and these concepts are hard to get across. So we are always looking at how do we get, you know, get these sort of messages sort of presented as frequently as possible and in a way, like I said, people are much more receptive when they aren't in crisis Because when they're in crisis, like you said, they start much more receptive when they aren't in crisis because when they're in crisis, like you said, they start to shut down. It spirals really quickly. How do we get that? You know, when people actually have the brain, space and time to sort of go oh, that's interesting, that's available, and then once things start to go a little bit pear-shaped, they might go oh what was the name of that?
Speaker 2:You know what was that again? Or that you know what? Yeah, what was that again?
Speaker 1:um, or they may even just um ring up and ask for that list again from you. Yeah, I just in terms of the wording. I don't know whether you've got any thoughts around it and I'm just thinking about how we portray it, like if we were to put it into an email. It is a. Is there any right or wrong when it comes to the language we use? Like should we be saying if you are struggling or if you like, are there better words to be using?
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, that's a really good question and it's something that we really grapple with as well. You know, we have this sort of flagship project at the moment is the when is the Door project, which is really which speaks to this conversation that we're having at the moment, and it's called when is the Door because in the community services sector and government sector there's a lot of focus on no wrong door, but we became aware that people didn't know that there was a door in the first place. But we really became aware that people didn't know that there was a door in the first place. And so this work that we're doing is really at that kind of intersection point, like how do we communicate with people in a way that makes sense with them? Because one of the traps of working in our various silos is that we all have our own language and ways of describing things that may not actually resonate at all with people who are just living their lives and never have to think about this until they do. So we try to, we've worked hard to try and sort of work around this issue and I'm not entirely sure we've landed at the perfect kind of description. Really, we sort of go and talk to various groups and sort of try to understand how they conceive of things. But generally we try to keep it fairly open.
Speaker 2:You know, if you're starting to, like I said, starting to struggle, starting to notice that money's a bit tight, know that, cut that kind of thing. What? What is most important is, as I said before, that we really frame these things in a way really normalizing um, these issues, because we all have, you know, over the course of a lifetime, no one gets off scot-free and we really want to step away from this notion of shame, because shame really prevents people from, you know, it makes, helps people get stuck. Really, we need to sort of really sort of normalize and and and have that frame of this happens to us, you know, these sorts of things happen to us all at one point or another. Help seekings really is such a functional way of addressing these issues. There are supports in the community. Let's see, you know, let's take that sort of take the reins and see what you know, what can be done to to remedy what's going on. Yeah, I.
Speaker 1:I'm just sort of, I guess, like trying to think and reflect on some of our clients and if they're struggling, I feel like sometimes it would be that because they're so ignorant to the fact that they're struggling, they can sometimes blame circumstances, so they might go oh, I'm not struggling, I just need to find a job. I'm not struggling, I just need my kids to stop eating so much food. I'm not struggling, I just need to, you know, get better at budgeting, like it's sort of. I'm just thinking of that type of language and just wondering, yeah, like what would be the best, just, and maybe that's something for property managers to think about, think about your clients and just think about what would resonate. So maybe it might be more practical to say something like you know, I don't know, is making your rental payment on time this week causing you a lot of stress?
Speaker 2:Yes, perfect, and yes, and indeed, when it comes to the financial stuff, we say things like are you beginning to struggle to pay your bills? And I think that's a really great insight, that really practical behavioral stuff. So it's not making a call on what's going on more globally, it's saying these are some of the signs that things are not going well and in that financial space, that's really important. Yeah, food on the table, paying your bills, paying your rent, that kind of stuff. And to make it very concrete, I think is great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I like the idea of making sure that you reach out to your local government in regards to who they recommend and they offer. And, if I'm honest and I don't know whether you've had any sort of feedback on this, but I'm feeling like that there will be some clients, some tenants, that are probably a little bit, and I don't mean this in any negative way I feel like there's a lot of tenants that are maybe too lazy and feeling like it's too much hard work to, you know, apply for something and make that phone call and have that bit of yeah, just put it in the too hard basket. So are these, like you know, this assistance that is available? From your experience, is it quite a simple process or is it a time-consuming, you know? Could people be too lazy to do it?
Speaker 2:Look, this is a really you know and it is kind of you know again. I think this is speaking to like we were saying earlier, that if there's we're not going to solve all the problems in the world with this process or if there's some kind of you know fundamental thing going, you know, going on affecting someone's ability to process or reach out for help, or that kind of thing because of this global approach, we're really just trying to catch those people that are able to make you know we understand that they're probably the most of the situation that those people with capacity don't fall through the cracks just because they don't know what's available. But having said that, it is really overwhelming navigating the service system. It is a nightmare and it's hard for me and it's my whole, it's my whole job. You know like what, what's the eligibility criteria and do that. Does that service still exist? And you know like it's tricky and so what we've really tried to do through the where is the door project, just try to strip that back as far as possible.
Speaker 2:What your first like? Who could do that unpicking or that work for you? What's your first point of contact? So, again, if we refer back to the Financial Wellbeing Collective, great. They're the sort of service that you can pick up the phone and speak to anyone and they'll have a good idea of what other supports are available and can kind of just talk that through. So really synthesize the information in a way that's easier to understand, because once you start going and looking yourself, it's like a, it's a bit of a nightmare. So that's really the focus of the work that we're trying to do, you know. But, as I said, particularly in our local area, for example, we have local community connectors whose job it is to unpick what's going on, prioritise what your first course of action should be, trying to take that mental load off the client or walk alongside them. I mean, obviously people need to still do things, but it's just a way of trying to minimise that issue. So how do we work with that?
Speaker 1:yeah, what, um? What does financial counseling look like to a tenant that calls up? Are they just given advice or are they given like money?
Speaker 2:I, I actually don't know yeah, so, um, so essentially, um, you can bring the financial well-being collective line and they offer sort of a range of support. So, if they can offer face to face sessions with someone to people who may be in debt to kind of talk about how to manage that debt, small business support as well. They also offer financial coaching services. They offer a really cool program called Energy Ahead, where auditors can come out into people's home and look at what their energy use is and let them know. Go well, actually your fridge is really old and it's using a truckload of power, or may not be the case. Fridges often are an issue. Or, you know, if you're looking at saving money from an energy point of view. These are the three top tips. Like, it's incredible, what you know. So again, that's looking at helping people understand what they can do, moving forward. So there's a range of practical kind of supports. But certainly if people are struggling to pay the bills, they can have a phone call, they can have a face-to-face conversation, whatever suits them basically.
Speaker 1:That's pretty cool. I mean, I'm sure that there's absolutely property managers out there that are struggling themselves. Without a doubt, they're not immune to being in trouble either. So maybe, potentially, if you're listening and it's something that you could do with assistance, maybe reach out and experience it yourself as well, and then you'll be able to better educate your clients. Yeah, that's a really, really cool. I like the idea of sustainable investment properties, but I've only ever looked at sustainable investment properties from an investor's point of view, in terms of how they renovated or put air cons in or what blinds they use, et cetera, and not from a tenancy point of view. So that is pretty awesome. I mean, not sure this is even outside the box again, and maybe I don't know who the right person would be to do it, but even doing a webinar or a program for tenants with someone who specialises in this area to actually just educate in bulk your tenants, um as well, maybe they there's ways that they can investigate it themselves or troubleshoot their energy usage and things like that.
Speaker 2:it's a really good idea to think outside the box yeah, absolutely, you know, and I'd be very happy to connect you to the right person to to that conversation. But again, it's like looking at the suite of things that are available and what fits yeah where are those kind of points that we see opportunity and can be followed up on quite easily without much investment of even time, but have really quite far-reaching impact? And that's what we're looking for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fabulous, excellent. So that's given me, personally, some great ideas, so I'll be getting on to it. And one thing that I didn't mention that we have started in our office after chatting with you is we have now just included the program on our email signature, so simply just putting the logo We've chosen to do where's the door? Is that the right one?
Speaker 2:That's the one we used. Yes, that's right, so I didn't want to say it wrong.
Speaker 1:So we've chosen to use where's the door logo and providing a link if people need financial counselling, so that it's just a very simple thing that we're able to do in our business.
Speaker 1:On, our email signature goes out, it gets people familiar with it and hopefully there are people that that use that. So we've talked about email signatures, adding a link on there for whatever suits you and your community, introducing it into their breach notices that get sent out to give them an option if they do need to speak to someone, and then, at the start of the tenancy, making sure that you are providing that information before there's any concerns. So, again, getting them familiar with it. So we've talked before the tenancy, during the tenancy and then ongoing. And then look into education programs that or maybe you can experience it yourself with calling up to see what it looks like so that you can better describe it, to better describe it and create those conversations with your tenants about how it's really yeah, it's a really great idea to reach out and and look at these things. So is there anything that I've missed that you think would be helpful for property managers?
Speaker 2:No, I think that's a really great summary of you know, some of the things that, like I said, small but impactful, and just the importance of, like you said, that sort of education and looking around your community and seeing what might be available and picking up the phone, like you said, and having a conversation. I think that's a really wonderful idea about the financial counsellors because, like I said before, you know, none of us really are immune to this and the cost of living crisis that we're in at the moment it's just hitting so many people so hard and so, yeah, that sounds fabulous.
Speaker 1:And all of that from a property manager's point of view or a real estate business's point of view. It costs nothing. These ideas cost you nothing. You literally need to spend, I would say, 15 minutes of your time setting up that email signature, setting up that template for the breaches and it's done, so it's sort of really no excuse not to do it really.
Speaker 2:And when it comes to the when Is the door project, like I said, we have developed that project very sort of locally. But having said that, a good chunk of the resources maybe 70 of them apply statewide, so it's worth perhaps even checking that out. We've kind of put together the resources by financial um well-being and tenancy support, mental health supports and family and domestic violence support. So they're all kind of in three streams but it's worth checking out so that you can kind of get an idea of what you might be looking for in your own region or what might be available in your own region, as well as the statewide resources.
Speaker 1:Perfect, I love it, excellent. Well, thank you so much for sharing all that and I hope those that are listening do make these small changes in their business. Feel free to reach out to Lee or myself if anyone's got any questions, but definitely the first part would be to check out this program that Lee's been talking about and then also your local government, if you are not in WA. Thank you for your time. I really look forward to doing some more work with you and, yeah, definitely bringing attention to it. Yeah, thanks, ashley.