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Are Property Managers Doing Enough to Ensure Contractor Safety?

• Ashleigh Goodchild

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I had the opportunity to chat with Malia Sharpe & Sam Pyne from On Tap Plumbing. The discussion was around critical responsibilities of property managers regarding work health and safety. This discussion is particularly relevant when engaging contractors for maintenance and repairs. The episode highlighted the importance of ensuring that contractors have the necessary licenses, insurance, and safety protocols in place. 

Key Responsibilities of Property Managers

Property managers must ensure that contractors have the necessary licenses and insurance before engaging them for any work.

It is crucial to confirm that contractors have appropriate safety protocols in place to mitigate risks associated with their work.

These days, property managers are faced with a lot of challenges, one being pressure from landlords to find the cheapest provider. This can often lead to hiring less qualified contractors which poses significant risks

Property managers must strike a balance between cost-effectiveness and ensuring the safety of all parties involved. This involves pushing back against the pressure to choose cheaper options without proper vetting.

Here are some important things for property managers to consider when handling maintenance:

  • When onboarding contractors, property managers must be clear about the tasks involved and the qualifications required for those tasks.
  • Knowing and ensuring that contractors hold the appropriate licenses for the job, such as plumbing or electrical tasks.
  • Be aware of any additional training requirements, such as working at heights, especially if the job involves accessing roofs or elevated areas.
  • If property managers are unsure about the necessary licenses for specific jobs, it is crucial to educate themselves about the requirements. Reaching out to reputable companies like On Tap Plumbing for guidance can be beneficial.
  • The use of technology, such as the Tapi system, can help property managers track compliance and insurance documentation. This system alerts property managers if any documents are expired before issuing work orders, ensuring that all contractors meet safety requirements.
  • Having a dedicated person in the office responsible for onboarding and maintaining contractor records is essential. This individual should regularly follow up on renewals and ensure that all documentation is up to date.
  • Informing Contractors About Potential Risks: Effective communication between property managers and contractors is crucial. Property managers must provide detailed information about any known hazards at properties, such as asbestos or structural issues, to ensure that contractors are adequately prepared.
  • Addressing Tenant Behavior: Informa

This weeks sponsor is On Tap Plumbing & Gas - 24/7 Plumbing servicing all of Perth from Mandurah to Two Rocks.

www.ontapplumbinggas.com.au

6206 6888

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Speaker 1:

All right, today's podcast topic is a little bit more serious in nature than I normally do. We've got Mal and Sam from ONTAP Plumbing and we actually have spoken about this topic before. Sam, do you remember?

Speaker 2:

a while ago, yeah.

Speaker 1:

But Mal's come in, because I've been told Mal is an absolute expert in this area. What's your position at?

Speaker 3:

ONTAP. So I'm the HSEQ manager at ONTAP. So the health safety and then I cover environmental and quality as well.

Speaker 1:

Amazing and just for my, I haven't heard of that type of position being in businesses before. Is that like a common position that a lot of like big companies have, or is this?

Speaker 3:

something yeah.

Speaker 1:

So people have just someone specific for that role.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, and it's coming to the times of now that they have that role. It's quite established that there's going to be teams getting built within those companies because of the sheer workload and requirements that are needed.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and the seriousness of it as well. Like I've just been to a um, a REFA conference and it was a lot about the work um safety laws and it's. It is very, very serious and I just don't think that property managers have really they, I don't think they still understand the seriousness of these things. Like, are you finding that general consensus as well?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I would say so. I think, um, I think even when we touched on last time it was you know the concern we had that it was perhaps going to take some sort of incident for people to wake up and realise, you know, we need to be doing something about it. So it's great that we're here now talking about it, because I think it's good to just give people a bit more insight into you know, just sort of not being aware or just sort of you know that naivety doesn't actually fly anymore, which is the thing you can't just pass it on. Oh, this person should know that. Oh, I thought they knew what they were doing. You actually have to have proven and taken steps to demonstrate that they A a contractor knows what they're doing, doing it safely, all that sort of thing, and I mean I could be wrong in this, so don't come for me if I have got this wrong, but I don't remember this.

Speaker 1:

Actually this topic being in a property manager registration course either? I don't, and if it is, I don't know if it's covered as much as what it should be.

Speaker 2:

I wouldn't know that. But yeah, I definitely think a big part of that. I know it's hard because you know property managers are expected to be so many things and this is just yet another thing to be a somewhat expert on. But it's across the board. With all businesses, we've had to get much better at what we do and understand the risks involved with our guys on the road, in the office, subcontractors, various sites that we work on. So we've actually taken a lot of steps over the last few years. Millier has driven that a lot just to get better. And, look, we know we need the finished product. It's forever evolving and finding better ways to do things and reporting and all that sort of thing. So, yeah, it's an interesting time and like there's some challenges, but you know you've got to. You've just got to get on board with it and it's ultimately about bringing people home safely right?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely so. Today's discussion is on the work, health and safety, property managers, responsibilities to contractors and what we should be disclosing to you guys what you know licenses, insurance, things like that. I will be honest. I mean I use you guys and I use you guys because you are what I call a corporate company, as in. You're not the retired plumber. You know what I mean. You're not that small time person. So I feel like there's a lot of safety in that. But there definitely has been times and a lot of pressure that property managers have where they have owners that are just driven by price and really just fighting for the cheapest price, and these landlords do want property managers to go to places like High Pages or Facebook or community groups to find someone who can do the job for $100. What sort of risks are involved with property managers potentially going down that road and just sort of getting a job done quickly by someone who is a lot cheaper?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so it does come down to that, and I understand that that's been the way for a long time With the new Work Health and Safety Act that did come in in 2020, it's really pushing that for all companies, no matter who they are, what they do, they have that responsibility and the duty of care. So if you are finding a trade that is a one-man band and you know is cheaper and may not have things in place that they need, you know it's just going to not end well if something does go wrong because they A don't have their things in place and then the property manager also doesn't have their things in place.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think they just perhaps there will need to be a bit of pushback with some of that and say, look, we can't take the risk of using this particular person just because they're the cheapest we need to be confident from us as a business and me as a property manager, that you know this person has all the health and safety in behind them, has the right checks, has the right qualifications, has the right experience.

Speaker 2:

It's just, you know, I know that's going to be a bit of a challenge and it is finding the balance between you know what's commercially viable and what is actually practical. But you know, when there's a risk to people or you know fines or things like that, then you know it's just going to have to be an action that's taken.

Speaker 1:

And this is a problem. So you've got, hypothetically let's just use this as an example an owner that wants some repair done for $100, where a general you know one of the contractors on your books might be $150 or $180. So you are using, so you're as a property manager. You might be pressured by a landlord to use someone from high pages because and the job needs to be done quickly. So then the process of actually having to ask that contractor hey, before I send you the work order, can you send me? You know, this and this and this and this.

Speaker 1:

And that contractor is probably thinking, hey, before I send you the work order, can you send me this and this and this and this? And that contractor is probably thinking, well, this is too hard. It's literally just like a blocked toilet or something and I'm having to go to all this effort of supplying it, and I think that's where it doesn't happen. So what response like? What things should a property manager be requesting off a contractor before issuing them work orders? What sort of onboarding should a property manager be requesting off a contractor before issuing them work orders? What sort of onboarding should a property manager be doing?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so there's a few things. I think the first biggest thing is for the property manager to understand what the scope of work is. So if it's going to be electrical work, for example, or plumbing work, they need to wrap their head around what that scope is and what's going to be involved in that. The second thing is you need to confirm the subcontractors or the contractor's licenses and qualifications to what they're actually going to be doing that day or on that job. So that's making sure they've got their electrical license. If it's working at height, they're having to get on the roof, for example. They have to have their working at heart training. There's a whole lot of things that need to be provided and the property manager should be checking off and reviewing that, requesting and reviewing.

Speaker 1:

This is, I think, the biggest factor in it all. What if a property manager doesn't know what licences you need? Hypothetically, as a plumber, I don't know what licences you might need. I don't think you need a working with heights check, but I'm sure that you probably do. Now I think about it as probably gas pipes in a roof space sometimes, or hot water pipes there. So maybe I don't know. I mean, and I actually wouldn't even know if getting into a roof space is working at heights or is working at heights on the outside of the roof.

Speaker 3:

That's right. Well, I think the time is now that you have to know there's no excuse that's with the new legislation, you have to go out of your way to find out again what the scope of work is and what's required, and I find that property managers can seek the help of companies like us. You can ask the question because we are the ones that you know are providing this every day to clients. So if you're ever unsure and you've done your own research and you still are finding that there's gaps in your knowledge, reach out. Reach out for companies that are doing the work?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that was my next question. Who do you reach out to? And that makes sense. You go to a company that's reputable, so a larger company like yourself, and find out. You know, can you? It's like me saying, guys, can you please send me through your licenses and your insurance that you have, and then I would use that as a bit of a base for my other plumbers on my books as well, and just making sure that they also provide the same. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because a lot of like the commercial clients that we deal with ask for a lot more information. So a lot of companies out there will already be doing this. It's just a matter of perhaps, in that residential space, asking a few more questions and just getting a bit more clarification on Because, yeah, you ask for a plumbing license. You trust that the person knows how to do plumbing work right, but that's only one part of the risk involved in doing a job. So they're having their health and safety systems and procedures in behind that. You probably need to request some of that type of stuff as well. So it's not just a straight license but more like what do you guys do to mitigate risks when you're on site? And of just a bit of evidence and proof around that and how you you know how you're keeping you guys safe, what steps you're taking to remove hazards, high risks, whatever it may be. So there will be a bit more involved, right?

Speaker 1:

And then we currently are using TAPI, which is fantastic, because that system allows us to upload all the compliance and the insurance and before we send a work order, it actually, you know, will say, yes, you've got active policies in place, or, if something's expired, it will tell us before we actually send the work order, which is great. I haven't seen any other systems do that, though. So I guess this is just a notice to property managers that if you don't use a system like TAPI that records it all, then you would need to have a system where there's. I would recommend one person in the office is responsible for onboarding new trades, making sure they've got all their information and then following up with the renewals on a regular basis. Like that would probably be what I would recommend. I don't know if you guys have seen any other systems in place.

Speaker 2:

No, not in the resi space because, look, as we've said, I don't think people are as proactive about this just yet as perhaps they should be. So, yeah, maybe it's not quite there, it might be in some systems that we don't know about, or it's a function that's just not being used. But yeah, it's certainly something that's going to need to happen, because I think the risk is, you know, like, as an example, if someone goes to fix something on a roof, they fall off there's, you know, someone gets hurt or whatever it is. If the property manager, let's say, hasn't clarified if that person has working at heights, training or anything like that, there is risks of fines and further issues coming from that right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, definitely so. It's that whole part of the. There's going to be penalties if there's any gross negligence and part of that, if you're not doing your own risk assessment as a property manager even before any work's done, you're not identifying what hazards are on site that can be prevented before sending trades there.

Speaker 1:

Such a morbid topic, I know, I know, but it's one that needs to be spoken about a lot more often, just more if anything, just like a reminder, a trigger, like you need to get it done. Sam, you mentioned about the commercial, how a lot of this is quite standard in commercial, but not as much residential. I mean there's really no difference. So the commercial space, this is completely normal.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for a large part. I'd say like, if you know there's site inductions you need to do. They're asking for swims, or guys licenses Safe work method statement.

Speaker 3:

So it is a risk assessment and it is used for more so high-risk tasks that the legislation determine. But it is the same as a job safety analysis, so a JSA I don't know if you've heard of that before either You're using very big words for me. Yeah, so it breaks down the task into different steps, and then what hazards are involved in each of those steps, and then you do a risk rating, so then you can put controls in place for each part to make sure that that's safe to continue on with that particular job.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, wow, there's so much in depth to know. Yeah, wow, okay, so let's go now. We've set up, we've done an induction for a tradie, we've got all their licenses, we're recording them correctly in our office and we go send out a work order. We're recording them correctly in our office and we go send out a work order. Now there's going to be risks and information that a property manager knows before issuing that work order. Do you find that, as property managers, do we do a good job in letting you know about a lot of risks, or is there something that you're finding quite common that we're not letting you know about before going to a property?

Speaker 3:

I think the more detail the better in a work order for us. So for ONTAP, if we get a work order in, we will make sure that any of those task notes on sorry, those notes on the work order are put into our task notes. So if a tradie goes to site they can real time see okay, they've listed these hazards. This is the work that we're doing. So more information the better. So if you've done that risk assessment as a property manager for that house, then you will document them on that work order.

Speaker 3:

So then the more communication again is better.

Speaker 1:

So things like. And I mean, am I on the right track? We're talking about if there's asbestos in the property. If a property manager doesn't know there's asbestos, I mean they wouldn't be telling you, but I'm sure that you would notice as well. In most cases.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, there's going to be things that may not have been picked up, like asbestos, and then if we have a technician that does go to site and finds that, then that's where they have the empowerment to stop work and they can report it to the property manager, and then that's something that you can document Great.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, tenant behaviour, like if we and I've got a few where they're a little bit of a problem. I haven't had a situation where they're necessarily like it's a dangerous tenant at all, but if there's been a situation where they're just a little bit nutty for example might have been you guys that we sent out to a property and there was a naked tenant, an older lady, do you?

Speaker 2:

remember a long time ago. I'm not sure if it was us.

Speaker 1:

I'm pretty sure it was you guys, I'm positive it was you. Yeah, it might be, and we didn't know she had this behaviour. Older lady, you know well, in her 60s, if not older, and yeah, she would approach the door naked and go oh, I didn't know you guys were coming along. She did know you were coming along. I mean, is that type of information like important and how does that change your process on your end? Would you send two people instead of one? Or like what does that look?

Speaker 3:

like it's absolutely important. It's just treated like any other hazard on a site. Whether you know it's the same as how we're going to control working at heights is.

Speaker 3:

If we know that there's a difficult tenant or you know something that we need to be mindful of, we will put things in place there may be two technicians sent to the job, or even it could be as simple as letting the technician know, hey, this is the case, and then make sure that they're comfortable and they're not taken by surprise. So yeah, we would just treat it like another hazard of any other kind.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, we would just treat it like another hazard of any other kind Just send out the single over 40.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'm joking people, it's just a joke.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, don't send out the young person. And then common like on-site risks, would like we said asbestos, like things like dodgy stools.

Speaker 3:

It could be like even structural if you notice there's any structural issues. Yeah, electrical wiring like concerns around that, anything like that.

Speaker 2:

You know, if it's an older property, there's chances are there's going to be more hazards, right? It's just if it hasn't, or if it's something you've taken over recently hasn't been maintained well or whatever, it may be just sort of flagging some of those things and just say, hey, there's a risk here. We've noticed this, we're not sure if the wiring's safe, we're not, you know, we're not sure if there's asbestos on site, various things. So people can just we can make notes of that and let our guys know. So at least they're perhaps doing a bit more detailed review before the commencing work as well, just to ensure that. And then we can obviously report back on that type of thing. And then that's for a property manager. They can log that sort of information against the property. So, going forward, any other contractors you know you can provide that information to them. So people are aware.

Speaker 1:

Do we, as an industry, do a good job in letting you know this information, or do you find that we need to get a bit better at it? Like are you finding that there's a lot more risk when you get out than what we've advised you of? It's okay, you can be honest? No, no, no, you can be honest. It's like as if we're not doing a very good job. But you should tell us.

Speaker 2:

I think that we rely heavily on our technicians doing their risk assessment when they get to site for these jobs yeah.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Look, sometimes things you just come out of the blue and you're not aware. But yeah, we communicating, like some people are busy, they just, you know, flick a one line on a work order to fix the tap or fix the hot water. But if there's history on the job or there's things that they're aware of, just those extra little bits of information that just mean we can pass it on to our guys is, yeah, massively important.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean I don't think this really happens, but it's just the first thing that crossed my mind is that sometimes if we have a problem tenant, for example, we're probably very hesitant to like want to write it down because we're just worried about, like, what if the tenant accidentally sees that? What if that work order accidentally gets sent to the tenant? I mean I know that, like with the programs, it sort of says it's just for contractors, but sometimes you just don't trust that and you'd hate for that to come out.

Speaker 1:

It could be a little minor reason for some people but, yeah, I agree I don't think we do a good enough job of passing that information on.

Speaker 1:

But I think one of the reasons why we don't is then it comes back down to property managers knowing their property and really what happens is they have a leasing consultant do the viewings and the home opens.

Speaker 1:

Then they might outsource the initial property condition report and then the tenant goes in and sure, a property manager might go and do their routines. Maybe they don't, and there's a lot of people that don't and have an inspection officer that does it. So really they actually don't know the property very well and they're relying on other people for the outsourcing. Still the buck stops with them as a property manager who's the one dealing with the owner and the trades. Yet and I just I guess I worry that as time goes on in the industry that that's what it's going to come back to property managers having responsibility, but actually property managers having responsibility but actually outsourcing a lot of that physical work. So not sure what the answer is to that, but I think probably senior property managers probably should at least do the property condition report at the start, maybe, or maybe make sure they attend, like once a year or twice a year.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think, like just seeking a bit of outside advice from you know some sort of consultant, just to say, hey, you know, this is fairly new for us in this industry. You know what sort of things should we be. You know, adding to condition reports or inspections to identify hazards, what are the risks for property managers when engaging trades and you know other contractors. So, just getting a good understanding and doing some training, probably like quite regularly just to assess Because I think we just need to, we probably just have to add in a few things, you know, to stuff we're already doing just to mitigate some risks, and then it's just about that follow through and continuous. You know you can't just say, you know I checked this at the start of using this contractor five years ago um, could be completely different, property could be different, trades could be different. It's all you need to demonstrate that you're doing it on a regular basis, like reviewing and ensuring that stuff's getting done safely and correctly I just had a little bit of a brainstorm.

Speaker 1:

you're talking about that, thinking it might get to a point where the industry needs so sure you've got your routine inspections, which are there to check.

Speaker 1:

You know that the tenant is looking after the property, but there's and I guess that's the. I mean. Yes, you could argue that the reason for a routine inspection is also to check that, but I feel like that risk assessment of each property is nearly a separate inspection in itself. It's actually nothing about the tenant, nothing about the way that they're living in the property and whether they're watering the lawn or not watering the lawn. It's absolutely just about doing a full risk and safety assessment on the home. Maybe owners pay an extra amount for that, Maybe that's something that they could outsource with an actual I don't even know if a building inspector or something like that could do it, but whether or not and I'm throwing you under the bus with this question but whether or not that's something like that a plumber could do, like, could you send out, could I send you out and do a full risk assessment on plumbing, or is that not really?

Speaker 2:

viable? No, because I think, like, the risks apply regardless of whether there's a trade going right, there's risks applying supply. Regardless of whether there's a trade going right, there's a there's a risk supply into the property that a property manager is potentially exposed to. Yeah, so it's probably like at the very early stages, when you're taking over a property, that something like that needs to be done, because, yeah, you go into a property to view or do inspection or whatever it may be, and then you identify maintenance, um, but you know there could be long periods in between where there is no maintenance and there's not going to be trades going. So it probably needs to happen earlier, because there is risk to your own staff, right?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so like, yeah, so the property condition report, um, but then having a separate checklist which is just on, um, on like a maintenance checklist, and it might be things like um, you know, the wood to exterior wood is secure, or I don't know. You know what I mean, like in decent condition, maybe it's to do any steps secure, and I don't know, within certain heights. I'm just making this up as I go along. But you know I mean things like that, I would imagine all floor services, even yeah, definitely.

Speaker 3:

I think it needs to be siloed, you know, to have that separate risk assessment to be done at the get-go.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, okay, let me have a little bit more to think about.

Speaker 3:

Maybe not so targeted towards contractors, though. Yeah, I think like Sam was saying, it can be an overall risk assessment of that property for the property managers, for whoever else might be having to attend that not just the contractors.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I think there's absolutely something in that space that we will need to see and, like you guys have said, it's unfortunate that it's probably going to take a incident for these systems to sometimes be taken a little bit more seriously. Well, in something like that, you know, just that one compliance check, for example, you know we tend to only action things that are a pain point at the moment, and it should be taken seriously. I just don't think we talk about it enough to understand and property managers don't understand the actual, the monetary risk involved as well. So I don't know I'm putting you under the bus again with this question, but do you have some like examples of what like fines and stuff like what they roughly look like if we don't comply?

Speaker 3:

I don't.

Speaker 1:

I'll throw it on the bus, I know, but just like a rough idea, yeah.

Speaker 3:

I just know that they've definitely increased since the new Work Health and Safety Act has been released, and the increases come from not only monetary fines but prison time as well, so legal penalties and that comes down to really gross negligence, which there has to be a lot of things in place for that to take place. However, yeah, it's more so. Individuals take it seriously. You can't just get away with not knowing and not having things in place, because you can, as the individual, be held accountable, not just companies.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

But yeah, unfortunately I couldn't tell you like what actual?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I think I saw something the other day I'm not sure where it was, but, like you know, an individual maybe getting fined $20,000 or $30,000 for something that they hadn't done on a like strata property, something like that, or even what. It wasn't necessarily like negligence, but they could have done better and there was a fine that was along those lines. Even businesses get a lot higher.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But it's like just touching on what Malia said. So even for us in our business, we can't just defer to Malia and say, well, that's her area of expertise and her responsibility. Us as owners of businesses have to actually be well aware and well across it and take responsibility for a lot of that stuff. You can't just say, oh, I've got a health and safety department that looks after that for me. If something goes wrong there, that's on them. It's like no, no, that doesn't fly anymore.

Speaker 1:

That's a good mention, because a lot of real estate agencies are built with sales lead directors who have a head of department and probably put all that responsibility on the head of department to be actioning this, where they probably, well, they do need to still know what's going on and still have an audit process to make sure that's getting done and not relying on that. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And I wonder, I mean I'm not sure I'll ask you, but like, are there? Are owners liable, like potentially?

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Because that could be a driving factor right for helping getting improving things. If owners of properties, potentially, are liable if things aren't done right or if there are risks that you know, that's where it kind of needs to start too. That helps the property manager, you know, do their job better. If an owner's more on board with using a contractor that's maybe not the cheapest but does it safely or a property management department that takes extra steps to you know, improve safety or do things better, which perhaps means their costs are slightly higher. But if there's a risk to you as an owner, then you're probably not necessarily going to go for the cheapest contractor and property manager, because if you do, there is risks there for you and you personally. So maybe that's a way of helping to kind of improve things within the industry as an owner going. Well, look, there's a cost difference here but there's a massive risk. If I go with these people, as opposed to SoCo, for example, then I'm going to go down that path because that's a lot safer for me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I like that because that's another idea that business owners could have, or BDMs could have, with new business. Imagine providing, like going in for a new management and then having some sort of like tradie handbook or checklist where you say to a new owner here's our list of contractors that we use, and you have your list of contractors with their licenses and their insurance information and so, even though it's not relevant to them right then, and there the fact that you've got that book and you've got all the license that's required, and then you have that as part of your owner induction process to say here are the trades we use. So if something comes up, these are the ones.

Speaker 1:

If you have your own trade that you want to use, this is what you need to make sure that you've got and we need to put it on record and you sort of maybe try and get that record keeping at the start so that when the item comes up and it is quite urgent because plumbing and electrical tends to be urgent most of the time then it's already in place or you've at least had those discussions with the owners before. But it's going to make you look like a very thorough, competent property manager.

Speaker 2:

Like you said, I see it as a strong selling point for us as a business as well. If you're really proactive and leading the way with this type of thing, I think that's a strong case for you as a business. So it could be the same for property management. Like if you're demonstrating to an owner when you're signing them up look, these are potential risks. I want to make you aware. This is how we mitigate them. You know that is a compelling case for, okay, these guys are very professional. They seem to be leading the way. I'm going to go with them because I feel more confident.

Speaker 1:

And when you're against, like three other business owners or three other BDMs, and you're the one that's provided that information. The others I can tell you right now haven't? You're going to stand out. There was a couple of good little gold nuggets in today's session for people to implement and stand out.

Speaker 1:

So I appreciate your time coming in. I know it's a little bit of a morbid topic, but one that's very important keeping the conversations going. If you're in Perth, on-tap plumbing are the preferable plumbers to use. As you can see, you guys have got it all covered. So you guys do a great job, I know in our office and, yeah, really good just to have those conversations. So if anyone has any questions, I'll speak on behalf of you guys that you guys would be happy for them to reach out, maybe even come into the office and have that chat with the team about those insurances and compliance and maybe some risks and things like that. I think would be super handy for those that want a bit of team training. I don't know if you do that or not, but I've just offered it.

Speaker 3:

We're more than happy to help out, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Because it makes our guys safer as well. Right, Absolutely. That's what we're trying to do too, so we can work together on it.

Speaker 1:

It's win-win Amazing, excellent. Well, thank you guys, and I will speak to you soon. No, worries.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, Ash.