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PM Collective - The ART of property management
The ART of property management with Ashleigh Goodchild is a leading platform supporting collaboration not competition through an online community and events throughout the year with one purpose: to create happier property managers. She creates connections for property managers looking to create momentum in their careers and personal life. Join Ashleigh and her guests as they discuss challenges, struggles, mental health, mindset and give advice to property managers and anyone in the industry. To get the support in your property management career, join our PM Collective Facebook and Instagram community.
PM Collective - The ART of property management
The Power of Personalized Service in Real Estate
Ever wondered if personalized service could be the secret weapon in the real estate world? Join us as we sit down with Deb Gidman, a remarkable real estate agent who left a large agency to launch her own solo venture. Deb candidly shares her journey, from initially setting unrealistic goals to finding her true confidence by focusing on personalized client experiences rather than sheer numbers. She shines a light on the challenges and triumphs of managing a smaller portfolio, the art of maintaining professionalism, and the supportive network of small business owners that have become her backbone. Discover how Deb navigates the demands of her business during holidays, ensuring her clients never feel left out through meticulous planning and collaboration.
Deb talks about the importance of trust and strong relationships in property management. Learn how her established rapport with clients allows her to handle tasks efficiently, setting her apart from larger competitors. We explore the significance of educating clients about property management’s nuanced dynamics and the joy of offering personal touches, like mopping floors for new properties, to foster stronger connections. The episode wraps up with insightful strategies on email management, emphasizing the power of personalized communication over automation. Deb's inspiring journey is a testament to the power of experience and transparency in building a successful real estate career, reminding us to cherish personal growth and find joy in the ongoing process of development.
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We have Deb Gidman back for another podcast episode, which is going to be more around the solo journey that you've had. So, deb, welcome, thank you. Now, if anyone wants to have a little bit of a listen to Deb's history, go back to the previous podcast where Deb's given us a bit of a history with her career. So she was previously at a very large agency and then she decided to go out on her own and Deb tell us how that's been. How long has it been now? 16 months, oh, 16 months, three days, and it's a little bit like that. A little bit like that, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:It has been eye-opening. It has been well. You've had the conversations with me. There's a lot of situations that I probably didn't think about.
Speaker 2:I was a bit of a wing it and see what happens and literally opened a trust account, got a name, did my formalities that I needed to do and then off I went formalities that I needed to do and then off I went and I kind of thought that you know, I'm so experienced and I'm a licensed agent. You know people are going to flock to me. Obviously they want me to manage their property. What could go wrong? And you know it hasn't actually been like that.
Speaker 2:So, but you know, there are so many great people in the industry that you can speak with, so many podcasts you can listen to, so many conversations that you can have, and what I'm slowly starting to realise, 16 months in, is that I'm not comparing myself to anyone else. I'm in my lane, doing my thing, and I'm actually pretty happy. So there are people that have done you know massively better than me and people that probably haven't done as well as me. So we're all on our own journey and as long as I'm doing my thing and doing it to the best of my ability. I'm happy. So yeah, it's been eye-opening and in a way 16 months actually.
Speaker 1:I know it might feel slow at times, but it sort of has gone quite quick.
Speaker 2:I know, if you look back on it, it has. It's flown by has.
Speaker 1:It's flown by.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first 12 months like probably the goals that I set, I wasn't there. Maybe I was unrealistic, I don't know. But this year things are starting to sort of, you know, like the ball is rolling and things are starting to fall in place and I'm getting more confident in everything. So, yeah, this year will be better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, excellent. So we previously have spoken about larger agencies and the reasons why clients would go to larger agencies and how they can still create a personal service. So, being on your own, obviously you are offering a very personal service, maybe sometimes quite an emotional service at times as well. But I also hear I find this space quite interesting because I remember doing a webinar for people that had under a hundred properties and I was doing a bit of a growth webinar just to sort of help with the motivation, and there was quite a few people from Instagram particularly that messaged me and said I'd love to come on the webinar.
Speaker 1:And I said to them have you got under 100 properties? Because they were perceived to have like they were looking very professional, their socials was up to date, they look like they're a big agency. And I was shocked when they messaged me and said I've only got 10 or I've only got 20. And I was thinking to myself it's such a perception marketing Like no one needs to know how many properties you have. But also what's interesting is that sometimes the solo offices want to look bigger and but I mean we don't embrace the exclusivity of having the small office. So what's your thoughts when it comes to client contact, are you that type of person that embraces and takes advantage and says, yes, I only manage this number of properties. Or do you want to look bigger because it could be perceived as more professional?
Speaker 2:It's a great question, ash, because, funnily, I've done a lot of calls, a lot of BDM calls, and I've actually played with both sides of that, because I don't know what people want, I don't know, okay. So I always take every client as they've not had got. I do ask the question have you got other investments? Then it's a slightly different conversation, but most of them don't have any idea of being an investment landlord. They may look online and the questions are always how many properties does your property manager manage? And all of those sort of pre. I hate that question.
Speaker 2:They're all the same. And so sometimes I think if I say to them I've only got 10 properties, what does that look like? Does that look like I'm not very good at what I do? So I just, I don't ever say how many properties I've got, I just say I manage a smaller amount so that I can offer a personalised service. So I try not to get into numbers. Sometimes they do ask me and I will say and I did have somebody say to me the other day, is it just you? And I was on the spot and I said yes, it is actually. And he said well, what do you do when you go on holiday?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I said well, I do actually have things in place. So I have been on holiday whilst I've been working, and I do two hours of work on my laptop in the morning, so you can work from anywhere. As we know, I can take calls from anywhere and if there was any out of office stuff that had to be done, there are people that I can call on to help me. There are outsourcing companies, you know that can do things like that, but there was colleagues that I work with. In fact, somebody reached out to me just the other day. She was away. Could you help me out with this appointment? And you know I'm more than happy to do that.
Speaker 2:So I think the smaller businesses do rely on each other, but I generally try not to get sucked into. How many properties do you manage? Because I think, like you say, perception is massive. So if they think you're because I think when people call me they don't think it's just me you know they quite often say could you manage to get one of your rips out to me, or do you think you can get a property manager out to me? What do you say when they ask you that?
Speaker 1:I say I'll come.
Speaker 2:Okay, yes, I'll come. You know, and I did an appraisal at seven o'clock the other night on a property management property, which probably wouldn't generally happen in property management. But they'd already moved away from their investment property and they were going to be down. I couldn't make the day that they wanted, so I went at seven o'clock. But yeah, I think I do want to put the perception out there that I'm bigger than what I am. But it's funny because I was thinking about it on the way up here. Ash, being in the industry, if I said to you, I'm a licensed agent, I can manage your property or you can have a registered property manager. Which one would you choose? Yeah, but it only means something to us in the industry. It doesn't mean anything to that investor that's calling from interstate. He doesn't understand the difference in that.
Speaker 1:And they're all different over east anyway, the licensed, or what they call licensed agents and certificates. It's all weird, so it doesn't mean anything to me. It doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 2:So I'm thinking you're getting a licensed agent, you know, and it doesn't mean anything. So I suppose, along my journey, I'm thinking about the language, I'm thinking about how I communicate, how I convey. I want to keep that. I'm a boutique agency. I think that's a map. I still believe in that, for if I was going to look for a person to manage my property, I would like a boutique agency. You know the buck stops with me. I know everything, I'm doing everything. You know there is. You run the risk at an agency that somebody may leave change over of staff or things you know be getting missed from department to department. So I do believe in it, but I don't know how much value that holds for an eastern state investor.
Speaker 1:Well, it would only hold value if it's been a pain point for them where they were, where they did have a change, and then they'll be like you know what. We can't deal with these larger style agencies. We're going to go for an individual. So I mean a few things that come to mind.
Speaker 1:The first if we talk a little bit about the number of properties that you manage, you could and I don't know how this would sound, but you could potentially sort of not answer that question directly but just say listen, I've got capacity for 60 more properties on my portfolio, so I've got plenty of time. So I like talking about capacity, because I think that's really important and I encourage landlords to actually ask a potential property manager or BDM what capacity does your team have? Because if they've only got capacity, well, first of all it will probably throw them with a question but, like in my team, I've got capacity, I think, for 130 more properties in our team with existing labour. So to me that sounds like there is time available to take on more clients as opposed to reflecting on the amount of properties we've got. So I don't know how that would come across.
Speaker 2:No, I like that capacity because, yeah, you're flipping it, then saying I've got time, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the other thing with the how many properties do you manage? And the reason why I hate this question is because my team do manage a high amount of properties. So just by asking that question doesn't come across great, and I did do a little video once on better alternative questions an investor could ask. But for me, what's more important is how long they've been on your team, for Are they happy? Do you have a happy team? Because I might have a team member managing 180 properties and they've been with me for 10 years. They're very happy so, but would I expect a new person coming into the office and looking after 180 from day one? Probably not. But something that grows, develops, becomes easier the longer you look after clients. Yeah, well, that's it.
Speaker 2:You build relationships with people. You know them, like people that are in portfolios for long periods of time. I mean I had somebody that was on 180. She'd finished her work by 11 o'clock every day. She was the one standing up going. How can I help? Because she'd built such trust and rapport and relationships with those people that she wouldn't even have to phone. She'd just send an email going. I need to send a plumber.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was it, or I've sent a plumber.
Speaker 2:Or I've sent a plumber. We know how much a maintenance you know. If you haven't got trust, it's a great. In fact, we should do this. We should work out on a brand new PM managing a brand new property how long does a maintenance task take? Versus an experienced PM with a portfolio where there's trust on how long it takes? I would say it would be. It would differ massively. And so when you can deal with those things in a quick, efficient manner and you're not having to send an email, then phone call, then wait for the return, then send a quote, then get approval for the quote, then send the, that plumbing thing could have been done within the hour. So that you know if you've got a whole, if you've got 180 properties where you're having to do that massive rigmarole, it's not going to work, whereas if you've got 180 and you've got the rapport and the trust, and so making sure that we, when we get asked that question as property managers, we're actually just not giving that client the number.
Speaker 1:Make sure you explain that to them and justify it, and use that as an opportunity to educate the client why are you asking that question?
Speaker 2:They're asking it because it's been on a when they've Googled what questions to ask.
Speaker 1:I'm sure PK on his investor course has 10 questions to ask. I actually had a joke with a client once and he started going through the questions and it must've been my third call for the day of the same questions and I actually had a joke and said to this guy listen, I'm going to have a guess at what your next question is. And I guessed it and he was like, how did you know? I was like because I've answered these questions already three times today and it's interesting because they ask the questions but I don't even know if they know what the correct answer is no, do they.
Speaker 2:No, do they? No? And this is when I come back to so many of these vistas, our first time. They're doing their best, they're educating themselves as much as they can. They go online, they Google. What questions should we ask? But you're absolutely right, they don't know what. So what if we said I managed 300? What?
Speaker 1:does that mean I wouldn't say that you're very efficient and how awesome is it that you are managing 300. Managing 300. Yeah, come and work for me. Absolutely, that's right. I see good efficiencies in that. And if someone managed 300 properties, I would probably be curious at how long they were in that role for, because if they were only in that role for a couple of months, if I was an investor I'd be like I'd question management, is that doable, are they happy? But if someone's been in the business long term managing that number of properties, they must be happy, happy, absolutely, and being rewarded accordingly.
Speaker 2:That's a great question actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really important to educate your clients. And you can educate your clients on that, yes, by answering it when they call you, but even on your socials and like, like I I've did ages ago now, which was, oh, you know better alternative questions to ask and how many properties, um, your property manager looks after.
Speaker 2:so get it all out on the socials yeah, I this just sprang to mind and I just wanted to have quickly raise it with you. We know the software that I'm using have introduced this new sort of lead component and when you're creating your listing kit, it surfaces data from your software your arrears, your response time to emails, all of these important things to actually show your points of difference rather than just going we all manage 120 properties, we do. You know what I mean, because I'd say we're probably all saying the same thing, really. So I thought that was a great sort of like thing that, yeah, they're actually going to surface data and say we have 0% arrears, we have a response time of four hours 26 minutes. We you know actual information that landlords might get excited about because, yeah, it's real, live data.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like we manage 200 properties and we do it pretty goddamn well according to our stats. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Very cool I like that Personal service with arrears you're doing so. Obviously you have time to offer a very personal service. You call them up when they get their council rates or email when they get their council rates to find out how they want them paid. What other services would you be offering that maybe a larger agency couldn't, and therefore use it as a bit of point of difference? Mopping floors Mopping floors yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah. So I mean, we all know the builders clean on new properties.
Speaker 1:Just curiously why do you mop the floors? Why would you not just tell the owner, hey, it needs a spring clean and it's $150?
Speaker 2:Because I can just pop down and do it Again, just building that rapport, and saying to him I mean, I don't let it go unnoticed. I say to him look, it didn't actually warrant a big clean, but it did warrant. You know, the benchtops being wiped and the mop and I've just whizzed down and done that myself Because if somebody did that for me, I would feel like they're looking after me, I would feel like they were giving good service. So that's the reason that I'm doing it, and I'm just trying to give great service in order to build my rent roll, because I feel like my customers are coming from referrals. Now they're starting to speak to other investors and so that is. You know, we've all got our growth plans. I'm not a cold caller. It's never going to be something that I do. I thought I'd try it. I hate it. So I have to think of other avenues, and this is one of mine is giving great service to my current customer base in order to get referrals.
Speaker 1:I mean in fairness, I'd probably mop a floor versus doing a cold call. Any day as well. So I get that mentality. I'm going to throw a question which will be a bit of a curveball. I reckon there'll be people listening that will have this thought, and it would be, deb, if you are mopping floors where does that line, that boundary stop? Are they going to continue to expect more from?
Speaker 2:you and again, it's a great question and I'm fully aware that I'm over-servicing my clients at the moment and I would actually be having a go at the team, my larger team, if they were doing what I'm doing. You know the ones that want to order something from good guys and then arrange to be at the property while the oven's being delivered. We don't have time for that. That's what I would be saying to my team when I was there. But my feeling is that if I bid this client in and I build this relationship at the start, I'm going to have longevity with this client. They're going to stay, but they're also not going to question, Like I say, the lady that had built the rapport with them. They're not going to question, they're going to make my job easier. So I'm quite happy to do it. At the beginning I might be making a rod for my own back. It might be that this client expects me to go and do a vacate clean in between tenancies.
Speaker 1:And we'll do another podcast and talk about that when that happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not doing vacate clean. No, unless you want to pay me a thousand dollars, I'm definitely in the wrong industry. I need to be a cleaner, but for me and for now, it's the decision.
Speaker 1:I've made Interesting because in the previous podcast we were talking about offering that personal service and saying if you are a property manager in a large team, sometimes asking yourself that question of if I was on my own, would I do it any differently? And in turn with you I would say, if you were in a bigger talent, would you do the same? It's same, same, but different.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, and I probably wouldn't be doing it. No, but no yeah.
Speaker 1:But at the moment, that's that point of difference that you need to use. Yeah, and I think points of differences do change as you grow. I think so, and you don't have to have one point of difference that lasts you forever. There'll be a point of difference for zero to 50, a point of difference for 50 to 100, a point of difference from 500. So, making sure people know that that's very fluid and you just take advantage of whatever stage you are at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I'm speaking with all my owners at the moment going it's me for everything. It's not always going to be me for everything, it's not, but I'm happy to sell that now because it is, and then when I do get bigger and bring somebody else on, we just need to make sure that the standards that I've set are maintained.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing. Last question Benefits of being a solo operator that you use for your clients.
Speaker 2:The flexibility for me to do whatever. So sometimes they will call me on a Sunday morning and I will take the call because, yeah, like I say, I've got skin in the game. It's my saying you know what I put in, I get out. So I am very hands-on with my clients and I do communicate, probably more than, like I say, with the bigger team. I always said to them we finish at five, you know, we're not getting paid to do after hours. So we put things in place so that the PMs weren't doing what I'm doing. But I'm happy to do it for now.
Speaker 1:The one thing that I would encourage every and this might sound a little bit what's the word like?
Speaker 1:Controversial, but I know that for me, being in a larger agency, if I have a client that I recognize is not suited for a larger agency, I have no problems referring them to someone like yourself, which I've done, or someone that is that smaller team, because the way that I see it is that I would rather a client go to someone that I know and trust as opposed to going to the open market and just picking someone out and not know their service and vice versa. There'll be times where someone is in a smaller office and they might have a more demanding client and they actually might be better off being referred to a larger agency where they don't have to worry about that. So I think there's so many different types of clients recognizing and not being afraid to refer people on if you think that there is another setup. I mean, I'm not referring you know someone to a competitor of mine as such, but I wouldn't see a smaller agency being a competitor because they are offering a completely different service.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. There's room for everybody, and I think one of the things that you have really brought to the forefront is this collaboration, not competition. I love to use that. We're all in this together and yeah, if the small, because I will go away to Bali for two weeks.
Speaker 1:You tell your clients that you do that.
Speaker 2:I didn't last time. I only had a few clients. I'm going to Thailand in January for two weeks, so I've already teed up with another colleague of mine that if there's anything on the ground but no, I don't think I will need to tell my clients because I will still answer the phone calls and I will still answer the emails. I will still be working because it's my business and I'm happy to do that. Two hours in the morning while I'm sat having a cup of coffee is no skin off my back, so it should be seamless to them. So I probably wouldn't tell them I'm away.
Speaker 1:I get that question asked a little bit. I don't personally like auto replies on emails. I would rather just like answer it and have someone monitoring my emails and responding, as opposed to making a big drama out of it.
Speaker 2:You have a bigger team as opposed to small.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing. Well, it's always lovely chatting, deb. Thank you for coming on and I really do enjoy your growth and your journey, and it is a journey and I think that you have got past that destination where you're like I want to be at this point. Don't worry about that destination. It's very much a process and a journey and you're doing a wonderful job, so thank you for coming on.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Ash.