PM Collective - The ART of Property Management
The Art of Property Management is where the real conversations happen. The ones about leading without enough support, building portfolios and careers, and staying relevant in an industry that doesn't slow down for anyone.
Each episode, Ashleigh Goodchild brings her 25+ years of on-the-ground experience and some of the sharpest minds in the industry to talk about what it actually takes to build a property management business that lasts. The challenges, the director dynamics, the moments that nearly broke you, and the ones that changed everything.
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www.pmcollective.com.au
PM Collective - The ART of Property Management
Get to know Ashleigh Goodchild her entrepreneurial mind
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Embarking on an entrepreneurial journey can be as unpredictable as tossing a coin and expecting it to land balanced on its edge. Yet, this episode's special guest, Ash, managed to find her feet in the property management sector after a surprising pivot from naturopathy. With Bec Halton turning the tables and being this weeks host, we're treated to a candid recount of her venture into real estate, the inception of his business Soco alongside her brother-in-law, and why he shied away from the sales side despite her entrepreneurial flair. Bec shares questions from the public to find out more about her!
In the ever-evolving world of property management, standing out from the crowd is synonymous with success. And what better way to shine than harnessing the power of social media giants like LinkedIn and YouTube? Ash and Bec explore the impact of visibility and the confidence needed to create engaging video content that resonates with audiences. Wrapping up, they share some invaluable industry event recommendations. From mental health courses to intimate networking sessions and an exciting upcoming AI event, we've got you covered with insights that are poised to enhance your professional toolkit. Tune in for a hearty blend of personal anecdotes, industry expertise, and the kind of advice that just might make you rethink your approach to work and life.
This podcast is sponsored by Property Assist.
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This podcast is kindly sponsored by Longreach
Entrepreneurial Journey in Real Estate
Speaker 2All right , good morning everyone . I'm Bec Holton . I am completely taking over and hijacking Ash's podcast . So good morning Ash . Good afternoon Ash . Good morning Bec . How are you ? This is so weird . I'm good . I'm good . I'm really excited . I've had so much good feedback just on socials around doing this with you , because you are always in not the hot seat , you're always driving these podcasts , so I think you would be the first person if I was still podcast that I'd won on there .
Speaker 2So I thought this is a really good opportunity . You should dig deep and find out . Lots of questions about business and I've also got some personal questions , so permission to be open with everything , 100% go for it .
Speaker 1And I'm excited because I wasn't sure if there was going to be lots of questions , because I feel like I'm quite an open book and that everyone knows everything as well . So I'm so interested in what questions people have that they haven't come to me directly .
Speaker 2So , just for the listeners , I haven't given you any heads up on these questions . I've kept them well guarded and I didn't even up into five minutes , so I didn't even know if we had questions . So I think this is going to be super cool . So , first of all and I know you think that you are an open book and everyone knows everything about you , but we know everything about you . Currently , we don't know everything about you . You know from where you started and why you got into real estate , so do you want to give us your five minute elevator story ? Yeah , excellent .
Speaker 1So I came out of school and I went and studied naturopathy and I had I really love alternative medicine and I did about two and a half years and then what happened was I got to the end where there was a lot of crack hours and I think I had about a hundred massage hours I had to do and I had sort of finished my study . But I had that and so I thought at that time I'll go get myself a little job . And I got a job at a Century 21 office in Fremantle and I would have been 17 , 18 . So I just did that just to supplement me studying and then , as you do when you're 18 , you get a little taste for money . I think my first full-time job was probably about like 20,000 a year or something like that , and I really enjoyed working .
Speaker 1And what happened was , for those that knew , it was Tony Bonavida who owns Century 21 in Fremantle . He was quite well known in the area and that was about 20 , must be about 24 years ago now . Anyway , he passed away and the people that purchased that business were a flight attendant and a pilot who had no idea of real estate and I was reception and they honestly , like were clueless . I have no idea why they even bought it , and so I ended up having to jump in to help them with the property management . I ended up having to do their pay's because they didn't know how to use my over the time . I did strata and I just basically was helping them and because I'm a doer , I was happy to research and work it out and that's what I did and I ended up just working there for a number of years and learn a lot from going into the deep end with their real estate business . They did subsequently sell , but I moved over to a couple of other franchises and I had a pretty crappy boss at one stage . And when I had that crappy boss I was like I'm not working for ourselves again .
Speaker 1And it just turned out that at that same time that I was a bit disgruntled in my role , my brother in law was also having a not great experience in where he was working . He was director for another company and we just said you know what ? Let's just go together . So the other reason driving force for doing that was because I was 22 when I started SoCo and I was always independent . I didn't want to rely on my then husband to work , for him to work , and I always want to bring money into the family . So I figured , ok , at 22, . If I get into business now , I'll have five years before I'm ready to have children and then the business should be set up . So that's what we did and that works for me . But I always have said that I would have been a business owner regardless . I could have been a hairdresser at 22 and I would have opened a hairdressing salon . It just happened that I was in real estate and that's what I do , and while I love real estate , I actually love business more .
Speaker 2Right . So you're quite entrepreneurial and we all know that now , given what you've done with your PM collective stuff , and we'll get into that in a minute but did you ever do sales ? No , and can I ask why ? Because you are so driven .
Speaker 1This is stability , I think the stability of the income that draws me , and while I love the pressure , I probably don't like the financial pressure , so that wouldn't have suited me .
Speaker 2Yeah , and young kids and family . I guess back at that point . So talk to me a little bit about I've already learned two things I didn't know about you . You can give me a message anytime and be that you studied that , so I love that . But talk to me a little bit about your journey with SoCo . So you and Bill have a great relationship in your business and you're a sizeable rent roll . Now have you done acquisition , how has that grown and at what point ? Like when you started , I'm assuming you were doing everything from reception to property , bdm , property management , until you got to scale . So can you talk to me maybe through some of those milestones in the business ? Yeah , so we started from scratch .
Speaker 1We both got a small business loan out and we started paying ourselves from day one . I'm very sort of big on that . I think it was very important for startups . Then by about six months we were starting to get some good traction . He did sales , I did property management . We just sort of ran our own race .
Speaker 1So , for those that don't know , bill's my brother-in-law , so he's married to my older sister . He's 12 years older than me , so I have known him since I was six years old and when he met my sister she was 18 at the time . So that's pretty much a brother-like figure . And so we went into business . That was always a very safe family option , without it being too close , like without it being your brother or your sister or your mum or your dad . So that was good . We built up to about 200 properties and then when we got to 200 , we were at that stuck figure . So we did do one acquisition . So we acquired a portfolio from Nigel Satterley just for the South Perth and there was a lot of opportunity in that business , a lot of waste of money , and so that was quite good .
Speaker 1I don't know whether I would do another acquisition . We've talked about it , but I don't see the value personally for us . I love you know , I'm glad we've done one , but I don't think I need to do it again . So we just pretty much built our staff . We have a very family-like environment and that's really , I guess , where we keep a lot of stuff and we're very much family first before employees are mentality and we now have a thousand properties .
Speaker 1Our property management is definitely a lot stronger than our sales department , but it's still a very active sales department and we are probably , I guess I would say , at the end of our you know , the business journey . So as we get older , we've been in the business now we had the business for 18 years . It's growing really , really well and I feel like you know we're at that final race . You know of another 10 years or 15 years and then we'll sort of yeah , I guess sort of you know wind up making our business decision then . But I will definitely do more businesses . But yeah , I found Soco has been a very easy business to run , very easy for staff . I'm not that type of person that's had any pain points in business . It's been very good and I think it's also because Bill and I are so different . We are chalk and cheese , and that's probably . While it's a frustrating thing , it's actually a good thing as well .
Speaker 2Yeah , well , it probably gives you really natural , like hard lines on where your skill set is and where his skill set is , and I think you know that certainly definitely works for Frank and I as well . We just know each other's strengths and weaknesses and we try not to cross and confuse the team . So on that , so tell me . So I mean , that's an amazing story . That's our four organic grades to a thousand . So well done , congrats . We know you're a great BDM and that's on my list . So there's lots of questions around that . So when did you decide to start PM Collective ? How did that come about ?
Speaker 1So that was about three or four years ago and it came about because I had quite a few business owners about three who just I want to click all within the same couple of weeks . And it was January and it was the start of the year and they messaged me and said , ash , can I just catch up ? I just want to go through a few ideas I've got with business and I it was just random , like two or three people so I said that's cool , but would you mind if we just did it in one catch up ? I've got a couple of other people that also want to have similar conversations . So they were like , yep , that's fine . So we caught up for a coffee and just had a general chin wag and then those people said this was so helpful , can we do it again next month ? And then they bought some more people .
Speaker 1And then after that we realized there were some property managers and that weren't able to leave they like leave for a coffee during the day because maybe their bosses didn't allow . You know , yeah , yeah , a lot of personal appointments , but it's not , it's a work appointment and they didn't allow it . So I was like you know what ? We should record these conversations because everyone needs to hear these conversations we're having . Let's do a podcast . And so then I just started recording it on a podcast , googled how to do it and then create those conversations each week so people can just listen to them in their own time . So that's sort of how the podcast started and the coffee and conversations , and then over time , like I've now been approached by people in strata saying , as strata needs this , can we do some strata catch ups ? And so just introducing a few other things . The catch ups are so good because they're more of an intimate environment . Whether there's one person that shows up or 15 people that show up , you can definitely have those safer conversations that you can't have online .
Speaker 1And when I started about three years ago or maybe it was four years ago , the property manager Facebook groups were quite strong and there was a lot of negativity coming out of them . I think they're better now , but back then there was a lot of negativity and it was because people didn't know each other and they didn't know where they were coming from , where they commented or gave advice , and it was just so precious and I remember thinking I need to get these people together because that person that made a comment that is . You know that everyone's being upset about is actually a really good human being who's really giving some good advice but just not articulating it maybe the right way . So it was very much trying to create . You know , let's just catch up in person a bit more , guys , and really support each other that way . Then online , where I just didn't feel like it was working well for the industry when I saw those comments .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah it was . It was pretty awful back then and that you know . I think that comes from the . I know your whole approach is collaboration , not competition , and you know why . We think salespeople have big egos . I think in the property management space people like to think that they have all the knowledge you know , and it does sort of come through as a bit ego driven as well . So PIM Collective , and then you've got property profiling as well , and so so three really big and I'm sure you've probably got more , but they are three really big projects , I guess is the best way to put it . What tell me about yours ? So you're a full time BDM , you're a business owner and you've got property profiling , mpm collective , and you have three of your own children , six in your collective household and you are really involved with your kids . Talk to me around and I'm just sort of summarising a couple of questions what's your biggest work , mum ? Entrepreneur hat .
Speaker 1Well , it's very interesting that we're having this conversation today , because the hack is really don't sweat the small stuff , like today it's 43 degrees .
Balancing Work and Family Life
Speaker 1I double booked myself a couple of times . I had to reach out to a couple of people to help me and I really just couldn't be asked driving children to school and driving back . Now , this is probably really bad advice , but I just needed a day of just chilling out . I just don't want to be in a car today and I actually just really , you know , I really need to focus on a couple of things and I was feeling , I was feeling a bit stressed . I am feeling a bit stressed about a couple of things . So , for me , I've just gone .
Speaker 1You know what kids today , if you guys , you know , want to stay at home , they're like hell , yes , and we're at home today and I'm doing all my appointments from here and just chilling out a little bit and giving permission to do that , which is very , very hard for me and I don't do it very often , if maybe this might even be the first time like really rare , but I'm just trying to get a little bit better at that and I think as well we can focus on so many things that are really really not that important . Like you know what , if my kids have to order canteen three times a week , it doesn't actually really matter . Or if last night I wasn't home till six o'clock , it's okay for everyone to have hot dogs for dinner . Like it's not a hot dog , no , a hot dog . Sorry , I just said it wrong .
Speaker 2A hot dog , please tell me , you know what a hot dog is . I do know what a hot dog is , not a hot dog though .
Speaker 1Sorry , dyson , I thought that , yeah , yeah yeah , it's just like trying not to stress myself out with that . It doesn't actually really matter if we have a cruck food week one week , because I actually really like baking and cooking . So I do do cooking and stuff on the weekend and try and be prepared as I can . So that would probably be one of my hacks would be being convenient with food . It's probably the biggest thing , isn't it ? Like food and shopping and dinner is a real time consuming exercise for anybody .
Speaker 2And a mental load that you don't need . Yeah , and I think one of the things that you often say to me is and I appreciate all the advice you've given me with kids and balance and things but I always , whenever I talk to you , I find you always calm and I don't know if you're just like a duck on water and it's like you know , but it always comes across and I think that's an amazing thing .
Speaker 1You probably should ask my children that , because I think the question would be . They answer would be a little bit different . And I did have a source for it the other day . From screaming so much in the morning I get frustrated , so I come across as calm , but yeah , you talk back on the water .
Speaker 2Yeah , but I think I think what you said there's key right . Don't like no one's going to die if you have hot dogs for dinner . No , and in fact your kids would probably love you even more because you had hot dogs for dinner . So it's just where is that pendulum swinging and what feels right at the time and actually sorry .
Speaker 1So now that you said the pendulum , I think I heard as well that someone said to me once it's never a balance , it's always a tilt . Sometimes you tilt in favor of work and the kids are just going to have to wait , or sometimes you favor , you know to the kids and the family , and works got away . And if you just learn that it's not a balance and there's always going to be one side that has to drop a little bit , that's totally fine .
Speaker 2No , and I think what's coming across and it always has with you is it's let go of perfection and just do it . You know , like that , I've a lot of working mums and especially we're working parents that I know are trying to be the perfect parent , perfect salesperson , the perfect property manager and the perfect this and the perfect everyone , and that's never going to ever come out well for anyone . So let I just want to talk about BDM for a little bit , because they were quite a few questions . So one of the questions and I think this is a good question for everybody in your BDM circle what would you do differently now if you were starting out but you knew what you know ?
Speaker 1Oh , that's so easy . I only got my BDM at SoCo about 13 , 14 months ago and I should have hired her , hired a BDM a lot sooner and definitely regret not bringing a BDM in my business and not seeing a BDM as an investment as opposed to another wage or another cost . That was a big mistake and I love doing BDM and that's what we kept on saying . Why would we ? Why would we get someone in when you like doing it and you're good at it ? And I found myself I was going very , very well but I was not doing a very good service to my property managers when I put paperwork on the desk and had no idea of anything else and told them to work it out . I was really being it was a big problem in that business by doing that . So , having a BDM , I wish I had done that a lot sooner and I still now do all our lead generation and I pass it all on to Sam and she handles it all because she handles it a lot , a lot more process driven than what I would .
Speaker 2Yeah , she probably doesn't have as many balls in the air as well , so she can , you know , focus on on that and again talking about BDM where ,
Lead Generation Strategies on YouTube andLinkedIn
Speaker 2where . What is your biggest source of leads ?
Speaker 1So LinkedIn and video in general . So I'm like YouTube . I get a lot of traction from YouTube content and LinkedIn and it really comes down to the fact that those two platforms they're not saturated with property management activity . I always say I'm not doing anything special that no one else is doing . All I'm doing is putting it on those two platforms and while everyone else is still doing Instagram and Facebook , which I still do , but everyone's doing that .
Speaker 1And to give you an example , I was trying to sort out my my panel for an event coming up and I was on LinkedIn and I was like I need to find out who the big players are on LinkedIn and Perth so that I can invite them to be a panel guest . And when I went through my LinkedIn feed , I could not find anyone in Perth on my . As I was scrolling and I put a big link on LinkedIn and I found the first person that came up . I send him a message and said can you please be on my panel ? And he said listen , I don't think I'm fantastic . I said you know what ? I'm seeing you . That's the main thing I'm seeing you on it . Is this in the real ?
Speaker 2estate space or just in general in the real estate .
Speaker 1In the well actually probably would have been in the property management space , why ? But I was specifically looking for W Well , so it's just a space where no one's saturating the market , so it's very easy to stand out even though you're not doing anything anymore than anyone else .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , gotcha . So just a little plug for your power moves , which I know is coming up and I know you plug it everywhere . But some I've done some LinkedIn training as well and I've done Carmen's on , you know , confidence on camera . So to put all that together in a day , people need to get onto that . I can't stress I'm coming in , I can't wait , but I can't stress that enough for all the property managers and BDMs out there , even salespeople .
Speaker 1I mean that's open for everyone , isn't it Really ?
Speaker 2It's not even real estate based .
Speaker 1It's very generic for anybody yeah , an agent's , finance broker , sales reps , business owners , bdms , the whole lot Like . I think that what I love about LinkedIn and video is that it costs you nothing to do . Like I hate spending money on marketing and if you can just learn how to do a better video or how to use LinkedIn better , like you , you look like the skills that I learned from Carmen three years ago would , hands down , probably have been the best skills that have helped my business grow . Because of that confidence . And I said to Carmen the other day , if anything , I've actually probably gone a little bit too far , because I noticed in some of my videos that I've been doing , specifically on TikTok , I am looking really crap , like I've just rolled out of bed and I just come and I said I'm taking confidence to a new level and yet no one's saying anything about my appearance because I look like shit and I'm going to pick up the game a little bit , but that's how comfortable I'm becoming and I probably need to perfect it up a little .
Speaker 2Oh , but you know what that's . And again , please don't take this the wrong way but when you'll never want to glam up to go to you know , like , obviously , if I see you down the street , it's how I see you . So I don't think , I don't think there's anything wrong with that . I look at your TikTok videos and your Instagram videos sometimes and go just going to do it like it's quite motivating to do it . Just put the camera in front of you and do it , and I think we just all find excuses like my hair is not done , my makeup is not done , the lighting's not right , I don't have enough battery . There was like a million excuses , and I'm really big on that . I do so . One of the questions that came through on Instagram actually was what is next for you ? So not your business , but for you yourself , like personally , if you were to look at five years away , where do you see yourself and what space were you being ?
Speaker 1in that question . I would say to you that I would be definitely putting more attention I've been trying to make this work related , but probably putting more attention into other businesses and other business ideas that I've got . I probably would love to travel a little bit more with my kids and that type of thing . But I mean I really like I love what I do every day . I'd be happy doing exactly what I'm doing now for the next 10 , 20 years .
Speaker 1So I feel like I don't necessarily need any goals because I'm sort of like I don't need a holiday because I only do what I want to do every day of my life anyway . So I don't need to have a break from my life yeah , my life . So it's like my kids definitely , I think , as they get older , I am looking forward to being in a position where I can potentially retire in 10 years and then give them the support that they need to start their own businesses . So in 10 years time they'll be like 18 , 20 and 22 . So I would love to be in that position to be retired and have the time to do charity work , which I like to do , but also help them , set them up in their businesses and be a support there . That's probably where I'd be quite happy to be .
Speaker 2Yeah , cool Living up in Guilderton , obviously yeah , now I've got a roof up .
Speaker 1Well , the plan is to retire up there , and that's a great place because it's only sort of , you know , close , so close to Perth anyway , so I can keep my life up there very easily .
Speaker 2I love it , and I think I'll finish on this one . I'm not even sure how long we've been talking , for how much time , and does it matter ?
Speaker 2I don't think it matters your podcast , so whatever you want to do . But so and I've tried to sort of surmise , because there was about 20 questions that come through , just so you know people are very interested in and I and whenever I put up a poll or questions I never get any responses . So I felt like a rockstar , that people were actually responding to my little questions and polls , so I tried to surmise them and put them in groups .
Speaker 2So we just went going backwards and forwards . But so I've got . I've got two it's probably two parts to this question . So a couple of people have come through and in the way and I couldn't have this wrong , but the way I was interpreting what they wanted to know is how do you know and this is around your entrepreneurial skills how do you know when an idea is worth investing in pursuing ?
Speaker 1Oh , you never know , you just do it . You literally just do it and see what happens . But I think if you're doing it for the right reasons , then it will always work out . So , pm Collective , that is because a support network was needed in the property management space . Nothing else mattered than that . And I could have given up a lot when it comes to like the catch ups . And you know , there was times where only one time , but when no one turned up and I was there by myself having a coffee and I looked at the positive and thought you know what , ash , you never get time just to sit and have a coffee by yourself . This is actually quite nice . And then , as time goes on , it builds up and now we get good numbers . But you never know . But you have to give it a go and you can't give up after the first negative experience . You've got to keep on doing it because the bigger picture is that it's needed in the industry . And with property profiling , same thing .
Speaker 1There I was not doing it for money , I was not doing it for anything more that these investors I felt were getting mucked around by that were buying interstate . I felt that they were getting mucked around by sales agents , and I didn't want them . I didn't want that happening . I wanted them to buy with a bit more confidence . It was never about the money , it was about them being looked after . Even if I had to do it for free , I was happy doing it for free , and I did do it for free for a while .
Speaker 1So the reason for doing these businesses has never , ever , been money , even SoCo . It never started because I wanted to have a business or have money . I did it because I wanted to have an income , but it was never about anything more . So I think that if you're starting a business for the right reason , then it will always work out , but and there's never any goals associated with them it is just doing the right thing and continue to do it , even if it's not going as fast as what you wanted to , because I can look at the big picture and know that it's . If it's only helping one person , then it's still a benefit of doing that and I'm okay . It only helping one person and not a hundred . So that's really where my headspace is at .
Speaker 2And it's obviously working and worked for you and I think it's the whole . Let go of the outcome and reap the income right , Like just do things feel right . Which transitions really well into that second part of that question , and it was from someone who's working under another , in another office , and they want to start their own . No-transcript , and the question it was confidentially written to me , but the question was what would be the first step for this person that you would say you know , make sure you've got this before you do that type of thing .
Speaker 1I would continue staying in my workplace , having an income while I was studying my licence , for example , if I was going to open a real estate and I would be doing my study in the evenings , I would be doing it quietly , I would be getting my triennial and all of the qualifications that I needed and I would 100% say either have six months of savings for what you need to live or go get a business loan for six months of expenses that include your wage . I'm really , really passionate about that , because I see a lot of businesses where they don't take a wage from day one and I just don't think that's the right way to have a business . I think you need to pay yourself if you are working . So trust that process and I have only ever heard good stories . So study and qualifications while you're still employed , have the six months of savings or six months business loan and then go into it .
Speaker 1And my other advice would be that I see more success in business owners that go into it 100% like full time , and that's why they need to get a wage . Because there was a comment on one of the communities recently where someone said , oh , should I go get a part-time job while I'm studying my business and if you are only going to work part-time in your business , you're only going to get half the result . So if you want the results quickly , you need to go in and just trust yourself and at the end of the day , if it doesn't , work out then you've got a little loan to pay back and you go get another job .
Speaker 1There's plenty of jobs around . If you always think of what the worst case scenario is , which is really not that bad , then at least you understand what you have to go back on . It's never a daunting process . So for me , that's what I thought when I started it , and I think at the time my loan was $30,000 . And I thought to myself well , there are other 22-year-olds out there getting car loans for $30,000 . So I'm in my little path for $1,000 . So , worst case scenario it doesn't work out , I'll just go get a job and pay that money back , yeah .
Speaker 2I feel like people are getting loans for less , like new boobs and silly stuff . So you're right . And before we finish up , I In the next Well , is there any , obviously ,
Property Management Event Recommendations
Speaker 2your events ? Is there any events that you recommend people go to this year that you've seen ? That you think , oh , that's a really good event Because there are so many , there's a lot of noise in that space and even I was looking at the calendar going well , I could probably go into state for two and do maybe four local ones this year and there was just so many to choose from . What would you recommend people do this year ?
Speaker 1Yeah , Definitely a saturated space at the moment , but I personally love the events that are either non , not directly real estate related . So I would say that , like live PM , have got a great mental health first aid course coming up . I think that that is a must have for property managers because we need it for our tenants , our colleagues and also our tenants and owners . So mental health first aid with live PM highly would recommend that . I do highly recommend video coaching and so something a little bit non real estate but so important and that confidence I would highly recommend . And then I would say I mean to be honest , out of all the events , I think people get great value just out of those coffee and conversation catch ups . They're free , plus you a coffee .
Speaker 1It's intimate enough to have those . You know to have those more semi private conversations . They're all around Australia and so if you are a property manager that maybe has it , doesn't have a business owner that like allow , like pays for things , there are those options which you're going to get some really good value out of and some good tips and good apps and things like that . So I would recommend those . They would probably be my main ones that I would suggest . But if you , but you know , for the price , conscious person , the . There's lots of podcasts out as well , and then the , and then the coffee and conversations , but there is a lot of noise in that event space . We don't . I've got one coming up that I'm excited about and I don't know if you've seen it , but it was Josh Cobb's AI , have you ?
Speaker 2seen . Oh yeah , yeah , well , that came through . Yeah , he always does good stuff , josh , he does .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah . So I've looked into that one because it's yeah , it's knowledge that we need to have in all aspects of our life , as well as our , our work , so that AI is really just upskilling , upskilling us .
Speaker 2Yeah , for sure , and you might be able to put the link in the show notes for that one for everyone . That's probably all I've got time for today .
Speaker 2But you know I it's just goes to show with the response I had that people , you know you are such a , you know a figuring out especially over here in Perth , but I know , even nationally , you know people know who you are and it's not because of it's not because of what you do , it's because of who you are , it's because why you do it that I think has resonated with so many people . So thanks for letting me get your podcast . I just I feel like you needed your space on it and I'm so glad we got to do today . So thanks for your time and , yeah , I can't wait to see . I hope everyone gets a lot out of that conversation because there's some really cool things that I write down as well .
Speaker 1That was a fabulous idea and , yeah , thoroughly enjoyed it , so thank you for arranging it for me .
Speaker 2No problem .
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