PM Collective - The ART of property management
The ART of property management with Ashleigh Goodchild is a leading platform supporting collaboration not competition through an online community and events throughout the year with one purpose: to create happier property managers. She creates connections for property managers looking to create momentum in their careers and personal life. Join Ashleigh and her guests as they discuss challenges, struggles, mental health, mindset and give advice to property managers and anyone in the industry. To get the support in your property management career, join our PM Collective Facebook and Instagram community.
PM Collective - The ART of property management
From Chaos to Control: Tackling Overwhelm in Property Management.
Do you want to know the tips on turning chaos into control when feeling like an overwhelmed PM? In this podcast episode, Ash welcomes property management expert Jo Oliveri to discuss the topic of overwhelm in the industry.
They explore the impact of technology, the importance of efficient team management, and the need for a strategic approach to technology implementation. They also discuss maximising efficiency and capacity, pushing team members to grow, effective time management, and the significance of morning huddles in a property management office.
Jo shares her personal task management method and emphasises the importance of self-care and team empowerment. Ash concludes by recommending Jo's courses, businesses, coaching, and a product called Food Source.
PM COLLECTIVE - GUIDE AND SHAPE AN ENJOYABLE FUTURE
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Specialising in agency operations, team development and technology integration, we provide the insight, support, and training to maximise your performance.
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Welcome to the PM Collective, a dynamic hub designed to empower business owners, property managers and BDMs to excel in their careers Through access to intimate conversations, cutting edge of video training, mental health support and unparalleled motivation. Our community is the ultimate destination for individuals seeking to elevate their professional lives to new heights. So sit back, relax and enjoy our next conversation on our weekly podcast, the Art of Property Management. Today, I am delighted to have the lovely Jo Oliveiri back on the podcast. Jo, thanks for jumping on with us again this morning. My pleasure Good to be here Now.
Speaker 1:We always like just to have more of a conversational based chat and I think something that's really relevant for us at the moment is the overwhelm that property managers can have and business owners can have and how to get out of that hamster wheel, how to get back to basics and maybe as well like how to identify when you are in that moment that you just feel like there's just so much going on and I can't I don't even know where to start to fix the way I'm feeling, because I think that's the first thing that we have is number one, identifying that we are maybe in a little bit of trouble and need to get out of it and then maybe some real simple steps of what to do to come back.
Speaker 1:So I will let you before we get into that topic though I should have done this first is get you just to do a soft intro for, like I say, the weirdos in the world that don't know who you are because I should know who you are If you can just give us a soft intro about your experience and how you are so involved in the property management industry.
Speaker 2:Thanks, ash. Yeah, I've been involved for a couple of decades, started off in Perth and I just found that when I started working in property management, I had this kind of like epiphany that things could be done differently, and it set me off on this pathway of learning, of working for various companies, and every company I worked for was intentional. It was the next step. I actually wrote a list of who I wanted to work for and why and went out and created positions when sometimes they weren't there, all to, kind of like, do what I'm doing today. And today I'm an international business coach specialising in property management and I work with the engineer, workflows and systems, and we were very much focused on processes and policy, all coming back to a better experience for the client and the team that choose to work in property management. So that's a very quick overview of what I do, but yeah, I love our topic today.
Speaker 1:And something that I've always disclosed my mind is the amount of technology that we've got around, yet it's created so much chaos as well, and we just don't seem to. And if you see it differently, please say so, but we just don't. We just we have so much technology more than we had 20 years ago and we are feeling more stress and overwhelm, and I fully accept that there's definitely difference in client expectations and demand from owners and tenants, and that definitely contributes as well. But I'm a big believer that, at the end of the day, we can only control ourselves. We can't control other people's behaviour, so we'll not fully anyway. So we do need to take that responsibility for ourselves and make those tweaks internally of how we are going to ensure that we do not become victim of overwhelm and stress and things like that. Is that sort of how you would see it, or are you starting to see some improvement with technology?
Speaker 2:Well, I've got a little saying that I usually use in any presentations or workshops I do, and that is that technology keeps the business humming while team keep the business human. And what we've failed to do with all of this technology is to understand how to use technology in team in the most effective and efficient ways. And so technology in many ways has become a burden. And it's not that technology is difficult to use, it's just that technology is sometimes introduced for the wrong reasons or it's not implemented correctly. And when you implement technology, it's got to fit into the whole big picture. And obviously, when you implement technology, it's got to get a return on investment. So it's got to either improve internal processes, improve the overall customer experience and achieve the promises that you make to those clients when you first bring them on, and improve the capacity for the team as well.
Speaker 2:So what we've seen over the years is technology has not improved capacity. The capacity for a property manager has actually gone backwards. It's nothing to do with anything other than the lack of understanding in introducing technology. When you introduce the technology, replace it with other processes internal processes, the human processes and identifying, team task assigning, aligning and all those things. Everything needs to be intentional. It's not quite intentional enough. Hence why we've got the problems we do today, that feeling of being overwhelmed and anxious and not knowing what to expect when you go to work each day. It saddens me, it really does. It makes me sad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love the improved capacity, because one thing that I notice in the industry is that we can sometimes think negatively towards the agency where their team manage 200 properties per person or something like that. I feel like, as an industry, sometimes we glorify the people that only have their teams looking up to 70 properties or 80 properties. My team do manage a larger portion. They do manage 200 properties, between 180 and 200. It's a personal goal that they choose, though it's definitely not because I put pressure on them. I love how you talked about improving the capacity, because that is so important and it shouldn't be something that is a negative. That's what we want. We want to improve the capacity.
Speaker 1:I know when I've brought on new programs and I've said to my team listen, this program should allow us to get to that 200 goal or that should help us improve the capacity. With my team, for example, they were getting very, very overwhelmed when they first started managing high numbers. What I've said to them is that me, by bringing in this product, I am aiming to continue to have you managing 200 properties. I'm aiming actually for you to do that in 35 hours of work per week. They know that that's the goal and the intention behind the app. I think we should talk about those numbers more and as an industry, and definitely don't think that it's a potentially a crap place to work because you have to manage 200 properties there you can actually be managed really, really well and efficiently.
Speaker 1:I love that you said that. The second thing that I love was the improving the customer service, because that's definitely something for me. Those two boxes it's funny because when you talked about that in a recent course that I went to of yours, I actually realised that that's how I choose new products. Where I didn't realise that's what I did until you said it, I was like, yeah, I'm doing exactly what Joe says. That made me feel a lot better with how I do that For me. I don't know if you've had a recent update on this, but I read somewhere a long time ago that the average real estate agent has 14 to 16 apps or programmes that they need to use in their job.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it's out of control. A lot of apps and programmes we just don't need. We've had the guys who develop tech, who are reacting to the outcries that they hear in our industry and they're like I can get a solution for this. What we tend to do is like, OK, that's a great band-aid, Not realising it's a band-aid, and by introducing something, it's actually breaking something else down the track because we're not implementing correctly. We're not implementing with a plan and intention and an objective for actually implementing this.
Speaker 2:Right now in our industry, we are having a race to the bottom with fees. You're just like how low can we go? I think we're the only industry that's doing that. Fees for service provided are skyrocketing. One of the biggest costs that's out of control is salary. So when we look at that and I'm not saying property managers are not worth what they're paid what I'm saying is we need to look at that and say how do we maximise the efficiency and capacity of every person on our team so that our business remains viable? Because if we're not profitable, we don't remain viable.
Speaker 2:So it is important to have technology, but it's important to understand what technology is needed and why you've got it, what the long-term objective is and the short-term pains that might be associated with that technology. Because what we see is technology can be introduced and they don't go through the pain that you go through when you're introducing something new and so they decide not to use it and they might sit there and they're never using it or they get rid of it far too soon and focus on the wrong thing. So it is by design. Everything we do should be by intention and by design, with clear objectives in introducing whatever it is you're going to introduce.
Speaker 2:But also Something that really concerns me, Ash, is we're hearing all the time and I bought this up in the workshop last week what is the average number of properties that a property manager can manage, and, as you know, there is no average. But what's happening in the industry is that everyone is listening to that and they're not understanding what goes into understanding the capacity of a person. And it's not the person, it's the role, and it's the role that we've given them and the tools and support that we've given them to achieve the capacity that we expect. And obviously, with fees just under attack at the moment and our overheads rising, then we need to be very intentional in designing our team for maximum capacity. So I think this is what's leading to a lot of the anxiety and feeling of being overwhelmed, and it shouldn't be there.
Speaker 1:And this is a little bit of a random statement but even in your personal life you're pushed to a certain point of stress or whatever it might be, and then it makes you appreciate the good times a little bit more. Because you've been through that and I'll bring that back to an experience with one of my team members. I pushed her with 200 properties going back maybe about eight, nine months ago, pushed her, and with a bit of support, but by I know this is going to come across sounding a bit odd and people might just think I'm mean and I'm not mean, but by pushing someone past their limits a little bit, what it did is it allowed her to pick up the pace with her work, with her time management. It helped to improve that because she had to start getting really savvy and efficient and maximising her potential. And then what happens is, once we did that, we then bought her back to 170 properties and I literally just had a conversation with her this morning because she goes to me, ash. I've now got six emails in my inbox.
Speaker 1:She was so proud of herself and I said that is so good. I'm really really proud of you. She goes. I can't tell you how good I'm feeling with 170 properties now I feel like a million dollars. But I think it's because she pushed for that 25 properties extra and then we've scaled it back and now she appreciates that she can do 170 easy. And yet there's going to be some people out there who manage 80 properties and think how the hell does she do it to 170? Does that make sense? I don't know. It's a really weird thing.
Speaker 2:But yeah, 100%, ash. And instead of saying push, I like to say that you enable and empower a person to achieve that, and I come from a family of we've got some elite athletes in my family who represented Australia at the Olympics and I can see the way that they train athletes to empower them to believe that they can achieve a second off their run when they think, oh my God, I'm lucky to get to the end of that distance. But they empower them and make them believe. And as a business leader, you're actually responsible for doing that, for empowering your team, enabling them with the tools and resources and highlighting to them this is how you're going to do it and I shared with everyone at the workshop last week.
Speaker 2:You'll remember that matrix, the growth matrix, and I believe that when we've got portfolios, we know the capacity. As a business leader, we also know at what point that capacity is reached. So to me, it's like I kind of like visualise like blowing up a balloon and I can blow it and blow it, and blow it and it's huge, but I know one more blow in that balloon is going to make it explode. And so it's the same with your portfolios you blow, blow, blow till it reaches a maximum capacity, and then you release the pressure and you start a new portfolio. And then you expand, expand, expand. And you know at what point I need to release the pressure and start a new portfolio. And this is where we have that design and intentional team come in and why I firmly believe we should always, you know, recruit green and groom, and if you're managing your business this way, you can then enable and empower your team to have that belief that they can do it. You've got their back, so it's very important.
Speaker 1:And I think as well, like I know my team's goals when it comes to their wage and their pay and I know, like, what point they wanna get to with that, and so then that allows me to go okay, well, if that's what they wanna be paid, then I need the portfolio to be this size and, with regards to, I need it to bring in this much revenue, and then I can start looking at these efficiencies and programs. And that's probably what led me to the point of doing a really detailed tech order so that I could go okay, well, what products do I need to make this possible? And it's their goals. It meets their wage goals and their portfolio goals. It's a win-win for everyone. They win, I win as a business, and we now have a really good, efficient system. So it's for me, it's knowing how much I guess you wanna make from the department and then sort of going okay, well, how are we gonna get here? This is how much we allocate for wages, this is how much we allocate for subscriptions and memberships and things like that.
Speaker 1:So if there's a business owner out there and they are, and I know there's a lot and they are feeling overwhelmed, they're feeling stressed, they're feeling a little bit on eggshells with their team. Maybe they feel like their team's got a little bit too much control of the department and then maybe they feel that they've lost a bit of control. What and just that? The whole overwhelm, just feeling constantly exhausted. They would be obviously signs that you need to do something in the department to reset it all. What would be a couple of the first tips you would give a business owner that is feeling that pressure at the moment that they could do to get started in the right direction?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, there's a few things you can do and you just touched on something there, ash in understanding what motivates your team. So you know, if you know what motivates your team, you can push them through the threshold by enabling and empowering them. And I always say it's like you know, for the property owners that we manage their property, for we are the how to their why. Now your team become the how to your why as a business leader. But guess what? It's the reverse for them, you become the how to their why. So the business leader becomes the how to the team's individual.
Speaker 2:Why am I working in property management? What do I wanna achieve from this? Is it a long-term career in property management? Is it a step towards something else? And you know, then, what are my personal goals. Is it traveling constantly? Is it having six weeks leave? You know, and this is what I loved about working in the US, because you know we could pretty much let them know how much leave we wanted each year, and I went in with a big I want six weeks. You want me to work for you. I want six weeks leave because I wanted to travel back to Australia frequently. So that became part of my negotiation for my job, but it was all part of also too, as a business owner, you're in control of understanding. How much leave can I give this person and what does that look like in my budget?
Speaker 2:Now, in terms of bringing the team in, one of the most important things I see that's happening within the industry at the moment that is causing this anxiety and loss of team is mindset. So as an industry, we believe we're pretty hard done by. You know we have a lot of anger and you know violence at some point from owners and tenants, but it's not just our industry. I mean, we've seen teachers. There's been a 30% increase in past year in violence in the classroom. You know restaurateurs are being attacked by diners. So every industry is facing this level of people want to attack if they don't feel that they're getting the service. So I think the first thing is get rid of that mindset. You know we are here to provide solutions to our clients and if you get rid of that mindset, you're coming with a more focused mind, more focused eyes on dealing with the issues that are in front of us and finding the solutions or resolution to whatever's going on, Because resolution is not always what the client wants. We're backed by policy and process and all those sorts of things legislation. So you know, then, what it comes down to is once we have the right mindset, then we understand the you know the task that we need to do each day in order to achieve the objectives and you know targets that are set for us.
Speaker 2:A lot of property managers want to do everything, and they need to stop doing that, and this is where we need to split task. We've just been doing a complete review of our workflow program, flusos, and that's. It was kind of like a slow start, but now the industry is starting to see. You know, like FluSos actually is the kind of like the guardrail, if you like, of giving me the focus I need to focus on the task I need to do in order to stay within the timeline around those tasks. And there's a clue in property management Is every task has its own timeline.
Speaker 2:So a lot of property managers feel overwhelmed by saying I've got all these tasks in front of me that I have to do. It's like well, you know, in property management, tasks are never all completed. We can never go home and say all my work is done, I've got nothing left to do. You know, if anyone says that it's like Houston, we've got a problem because property management is ongoing. But what we want to hear is all of my tasks are up to date and, as business owners, you want to be in that position to distribute the task if there is a portfolio that is overloaded for that day. So you're in a position to redistribute the task load.
Speaker 1:So I think that's where my problem sits, because, like exactly what you said, there's always tasks and I am not disciplined enough and I, as I say this, I know exactly what I need to do and what my problem is. I am reactive to a lot of tasks that come in during the day and very reactive to my emails. And just before we press record on this, I mentioned to you that I started, you know, actually getting a notebook and writing down the tasks that I have to do for the day and I feel so much better doing that, I feel so much more in control this week by just implementing that tiny little thing. But I do have a mindset issue, because when those tasks are done, let's say that I hypothetically finish those tasks by lunchtime, just as an example.
Speaker 1:Now I feel like maybe I should go. You know what, ash. You've done your task for the day. The rest can wait till tomorrow, because that's all I had to do today Go treat yourself to a facial, you know, or a hair appointment but I don't do that. I then go on to the reactive journey and then keep on going and going and going and that reactive journey never ends. So I feel like I'm always on it, and I know other people will be feeling the same with that. So that would I be right in just saying it's just getting strict with this is your task. You know your list for things to be done today, whether you put in writing, like I am, all through an app and then that's it, ash. The rest is for tomorrow's task.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's really, you know, doing tasking. I mean you're a business leader, ash, and you've got other things going on and I run five companies and I'm on and off planes all the time, in and out of hotels, so it's busy, busy, busy. But you know, you've got to manage your time really well and the way to do that is, when you're doing your daily tasks, put in there what you're going to do as your personal way of relaxing. You know, and that might be you've got a yoga class, or you're going to Pilates, or you're going to do a run, or you're going to go to the hairdressers. That becomes part of your to do. So you know when it's listed in your day. You know, great, I did my run today. Or you know, whatever I did for myself, it's part of your to do list.
Speaker 2:But we were talking before and it's really important because at the start of the week we have this, you know, massive list of things that we've got to do for the week, and what we tend to do is write down everything that we have to do and that becomes our to do list, and every day we're kind of like crossing off, did that? Oh, but I'm adding this on and I did that and that's created this. I'm adding this on. I just got that call and there's an opportunity there, so I'm going to add that on. So your list needs to be, you know, like start your week by understanding all the things that you want to achieve for the week and that you need to do as part of your you know, day to day do, to do as I call it. So you know, mark it all down and then you're in a position to say, well, that's Monday, can get that done, monday, tuesday, wednesday. So you can break it down and then it's more in control. I actually just like to use my notes on my phone and I've got my week list and then I've got my daily list and you can put your bullet point on your notes and your phone and as you do it, you just mark it on there it's done and you're seeing them all being done and it gives you that great sense of achievement, seeing that you're marking them off and if you've got time left at the end of the day and what you'll find is, the better you get, the better you get at doing this and the better you get, the more time you buy back into your life. So start to use that.
Speaker 2:I know, ash, you're a very creative thinker. You know that is your time when you can say one hour of just creative thinking time. My creative thinking time is on the plane. It's amazing what I come up with when I'm on the plane. But you know, like you, you've got to do what energizes you, and creative thinking energizes you for your team.
Speaker 2:It's different things. It could be, you know, like going for a long walk so you might say to them you know, have your lunch, but I'd like you to just go for a 15 minute walk and just kind of like energize yourself. So you know, like understand your team when they're they're they're getting their jobs done, but they're getting tired, what is it that empowers them? Or send them off? Look, here's a voucher. Go and get a copy down the road, get out of the office for a bit and just sit 15 minutes and you know recharge. And it's amazing what, that little 15 minutes away with a cup of coffee or you know no wine at that time, but you know a nice cup of coffee or cup of tea, or you know something that just kind of like makes them breathe.
Speaker 2:And another thing that's really, really important.
Speaker 2:That I learned quite a long time ago is reflect on your day, and I've actually got a little rock by the side of my bed that is smooth and it just fits in the palm of my hand and that is my kind of like trigger for holding onto that.
Speaker 2:Reflecting on my day, feeling grateful, you know, consciously thinking about the things I feel grateful for, even if it was pretty shitty what happened, because that pretty shitty taught me a lesson about something. And even the bad things that happen, I always believe they happen for a reason. If you reflect on them, it's you know your way of saying, maybe we could do this better, or maybe you know, like it's me, you know what am I doing that I can do better. So that reflection time, which is just, you know, five minutes and think of three things that you feel grateful for that day, just helps you to then settle your mind and be ready for the next day and, you know, not going to be with this feeling of anxiety or like I just don't want to go to work tomorrow because I, you know, I'm fearful of what I'm going to face and you know so it's all those things that are disempowering, aren't they?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just keeping them in your mind and not translating them down into paper or you know in writing is something we hear of so much and it is so beneficial that I just love constantly giving people reminders, because I needed that reminder and I feel so much better this week. It's just these reminders to do that and it's really that feeling control, and, as we're just talking about it as well, I think that it would be a really great thing for my team to do, and I think that I might have some team members that probably would say, but I'm too busy to sit and do this. But what I'm thinking is what a great start to a Monday is everyone sitting together, the whole team sitting together, with some nice you know music in the background or having a coffee, and all sitting there journaling their plan for the week. And I love that you mentioned planning that facial, planning that yoga session or something like that, which is I'm not doing that and I need to do that.
Speaker 1:So thank you for the reminder, and I think that'll make me feel a bit better and less guilty about doing it because it's on my to do list. I've got to do it. I think that as a team, yeah, imagine all sitting together. What a beautiful way to start the week, writing out a list of what we need to do or you could potentially even do it on a Friday when you finish the work week or what you need to do for the following week, so that then you can go into that weekend relaxed in control, knowing that that list is there for Monday, like that's. That's what I'm thinking would work beautifully, exactly.
Speaker 2:Well, we always do audits on a Friday, because audits help you find the things that might have got missed so you can finalize it. And then I always have my team doing cheer calls or happy calls on a Friday, because that way they finish the week on a high. They spoke to the owner, so you know they call the owners and talk about you know what was done. It was all intentional. So we had a list of all the owners and every four months we spoke to every owner and then we started the cycle again and it's amazing how that kind of like helped the team go into the weekend on a high not, you know, catastrophizing or dramatizing things that you know that one little thing became such an issue over the weekend and there was no issue, you know it's just we need to resolve it. You know, either work as a team and or you know. But really what I was saying is don't catastrophize and dramatize, because it becomes bigger than what it necessarily is. And there is a solution for everything. There is resolution for everything, and sometimes we need to eat humble pie and have a look at the way we're doing things.
Speaker 2:And the other thing I did for my team in California, which was just golden, is. I actually had a chill room and in that room I painted it as heavenly blue the color and I just used to have a nice candle burning and I had a lounge in there and they could just go in there and if I saw that they were stressed I would send them into the chill room and say, just sit down and relax, just kind of like meditate for five, 10, 15 minutes. We had some motivational books in there that they could just pick up and it's little things like that that will make a big difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's really, really great. I went to an office in California it was actually a couple of weekends ago and they had this beautiful room set up and I said what's this room for? Beautiful chairs, and I think it might have had the books. And she said that every morning the team had to come in and read 10 pages of, like a motivational book or a selfie Beautiful. And I thought what a nice thing to do. You don't hear of that and, yeah, those listening to this podcast. There's some ideas like I love the idea of a chill room and I've actually got space to have one of them and I mean, you could have it.
Speaker 1:just, you know, an oil burner in there you could have. Obviously, like the books to read you can, yeah, maybe have like I would probably put a big jar of lollies or something in there and snacks, and just when you need a breather, you just go in there, chill for a minute. Like such an awesome idea and something that, if you're listening, it might be a really great idea to introduce into your office as well. So all these little random gold nuggets, you know what I mean, that people listen to that go. You know what I could do that in my office and that's just going to help everyone.
Speaker 2:Very, very easy to do and very effective. And, of course, the other thing is you know this is something I used to do myself is I always wore a little band around my wrist and as I entered the office every day, I pinged myself very hard, which was my way of adjusting my mindset to focusing on what I need to do that day. I was focused, switched on, ready to go. You know, just knew the drill For a business leader you have the huddle in the mornings and huddles is no longer than seven minutes and huddles are just the business leader directing tasks back and forth between the team, understanding what they saw that needed to be done the evening before and, you know, understanding if a team member is away or team members overloaded.
Speaker 2:So it's redistributing those tasks because ultimately, the business leader isn't in control of their business and they've made a promise to their clients to deliver certain, you know, standards and achievements. So you know, by directing the team, you've got them focused, switched on, ready to go for the day and that's how you, you know, take their focus away from. Oh, you know I'm just feeling anxious, or that's normal for humans, and we feel anxiety and stress, but you know we rely on our leaders to empower us and enable us and get the job done.
Speaker 1:And that, my beautiful listeners, is how you have a happy property management office with a happy business owner Exactly. I hope everyone enjoyed that Listen. I said to one of my other guests that I had earlier. I said these podcast recordings really feel like a. It's like my own personal training and, you know, and consulting. So by speaking to people like yourself and others, every single session, every single recording, I take something away to a you know what, like that's a great idea. I'm going to you know that's a good or that's a good reminder. So for me, this is really is my, my personal development and training, speaking to people like yourself and, and you know, making sure that my business is as happy and sustainable as I possibly can as well.
Speaker 1:So I appreciate your time, jay. Thank you so much. And for anyone that wants to reach out to Joe, I'll have her details tagged in here so that you can check out all her wonderful courses and businesses and coaching as well. And Flu Sauce is something that I have done a product demo on and introduced to a few people. So I would highly recommend that you get on and have a look at the teaser that I've done and get a demo with Joe as well, because it's a product that I think everyone should know about as well. So thank you, joe. I will speak to you soon.
Speaker 2:Be a bye, everyone Bye.
