BDM Strategies - Past, Present & Future with James De Jesus

Loved chatting to James DeJesus on BDM strategies, past - present - future. James had previously come on the podcast to talk about his first year in a BDM role so it was great to catch up with him to see where he is now. He shares his experiences from traditional cold calling to fostering relationships with referral partners and buyers agents. Not only will you get a glimpse into the current investor market, but you'll also discover the importance of future-proofing your strategies.

 We take a deep dive into the current state of the Perth rental market, including the challenges and opportunities in the building industry.

You'll get actionable strategies for negotiating fees in property management, understand the role of online management in today's scenario, and learn about the impact of lead sources on fee negotiation. James' insight into working with referral networks and the significance of personal development in our industry promises to leave you feeling prepared and inspired.

We discuss the vital role of a strong team and social media in propelling your business forward, streamlining content creation and property management, and understand how tools such as virtual assistants and apps can boost productivity.  

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:26

Welcome to the PM Collective, a dynamic hub designed to empower business owners, property managers and BDMs to excel in their careers Through access to intimate conversations, cutting edge of video training, mental health support and unparalleled motivation. Our community is the ultimate destination for individuals seeking to elevate their professional lives to new heights. So sit back, relax and enjoy our next conversation on our weekly podcast, the Art of Property Management. Welcome to the PM Collective podcast. I'm very excited to have a returning guest, Jane DeJesus, join us. James, thanks for jumping on board.

Speaker 2: 1:04

Hey, ashley, thank you for having me again. It's been a while.

Speaker 1: 1:07

Good to be back. Excellent. Now real quick fun fact, because I find it cool. How do you I pronounced your surname DeJesus? Can you please tell me how it's meant to be pronounced?

Speaker 2: 1:20

So yeah, so it's meant to be DeJesus, but in Australia and growing up it's always just been DeJesus. It's easy and everybody can say it.

Speaker 1: 1:28

Absolutely. What nationality is that surname?

Speaker 2: 1:32

Portuguese.

Speaker 1: 1:33

Oh, there you go, Excellent. Well, I never would have even had an attempt at pronouncing it like that, but I thought it was a pretty cool fact for you, so that's why we brought it up Now. Last time we had you on the podcast, you were in your first 12 months in a BDM role. But just remind me, were you the first 12 months just in BDM in general? Like what were you doing before that? I can't remember.

Speaker 2: 1:58

Yeah, so before that I was a property manager. So I was a property manager for a little over a year, for about 18 months, and then I jumped into the BDM role. Yeah, looking for a sales role actually, but I ended up in BDM and loved it ever since.

Speaker 1: 2:12

Excellent. So when we spoke you were the first 12 months in the BDM role and it's now been a couple of years. I remember very specifically what I loved about the chat with you was that you were very I guess I'll call old school in terms of doing all the right things like letterbox drops and that real sort of traditional BDM method, which I thought was really cool because I was lacking at the time of doing it and it was just really good as a refresher for me to go. You know what. Let's get back to basics and do that. So I'm really curious as to how your BDM role has changed and tweaked now that you're a couple of years into the role. Are there really things that you've been keeping or anything that you have changed and found that was maybe a waste of time and energy?

Speaker 2: 3:01

Look, I think the, in honesty, the cold call side I don't do as much anymore. I still do them, but they're not so cold, they're more you'd call like a warm kind of call and then obviously chasing your hot leads. Letterbox drops occasionally but it's not something we do massively Now. I tend to do it as like a quarterly thing and I kind of pump out my results for the quarter, say along the coast, kind of executive leasing what we've done, some of our key stats there, as well as when I do the kind of Southeastern corridor of Gosnells and things like that. So I guess there's those two big things that I used to do a lot and spend a lot of time doing that. I don't do A lot of it now.

Speaker 2: 3:40

A lot of my business and focus is just building relationships with you know, a referral partners, the reps in the business. Now working for RealMark, having a lot more reps to work with, really focusing on those relationships and with their clients and buyers as well as, yeah, buyers, agents have been a massive part of my business the last 10 months now. They've just been huge. So really trying to focus on those guys and their clients, whether it be through our office or through other office sales. But those buyers, they just had a buying and really just focusing on that.

Speaker 1: 4:10

And the switch from the traditional letterbox trucks, cold calling, etc. Have you found that that sort of has been amplified just because the return of those letterbox trucks and cold calls just weren't getting you Anybody like? Was it like a decision to work smarter or that you just didn't see the results from it that changed or shifted your methods?

Speaker 2: 4:35

Yeah, certainly. Look, you get the odd result from those things, but that's really is a long game and I guess it's still a long game and what I'm doing and how I'm processing leads and how I'm treating the client, but yeah, just the cold calls and letterbox drops, a few and five between us more for getting the name out there. Now I think my name's out there a little bit more, a bit more known, and I'm starting to build those relationships from other avenues that I never had the opportunity to when I was brand new to the game.

Speaker 1: 5:02

Yeah, absolutely. So. We were just talking about our predictions and the work as a BDM because, specifically in WA, obviously we've got all that investor activity and we are definitely finding the referral partners and the buyers ages a big part but I don't want to be naive to the fact that they're going to be there forever because they're not. And in terms of like, have you started thinking about a strategic plan of what to do when that investor market dies off? Because I think, like I don't know what you think, but I feel a little bit like not on the edge, but definitely I'm on the ball that this investor market can change at any time.

Speaker 1: 5:48

So as a BDM, even personally, financially, we are so used to getting real good numbers coming through and I know you're really high performing there but there could be a point where in six months, 12 months, it's going to change and we're going to have to shift again and that, I guess, makes me a little bit nervous. Like, is that something that you think about?

Speaker 2: 6:11

Yeah, look, I think I think it definitely can't last forever. It's all great and fun and games right now and it's, you know, crazy busy and you go, wow, you know you kind of keep your head above water, but I think that my thing is really I'm trying to keep the reputation of myself as well as the business with the local, you know kind of investors and people in the areas that I work a lot in, to being more your go to and I guess that's all through yes branding and your letter box drops and things like that. But just, you know, keep giving people updates, you know, every kind of quarter, every six months, depending on their circumstance, and keeping that constant communication with the communities that I work in so much. I think that's really what I'm trying to do now, while I don't have too much time to really pour into it, but still trying to put some time into that because this will change one day.

Speaker 1: 6:59

Yeah, and I like that. You said that you did change the letter box drops, for example, down maybe instead of quarterly, or thought, I'm sorry, instead of monthly, or thought you've changed that to quarterly. So you're still doing it, but you've just, yeah, just reduce the amount and put your focus where the money is at the moment, which is, like I said, the referring agents. How long do you reckon we've got in WA for the investor market? Do you have any like thoughts of that?

Speaker 2: 7:27

To be honest, look, I see I'm not 100% sure but from what I'm seeing and the growth in some areas that say Indian, I saw the buyers, agents buying a lot in. They're now pushing out of those areas a little bit because now the you know your $400,000, mid $400,000 kind of property is now looking at you know five, five, 25, 50, and it's like all in the space of kind of like a year. So, look, I think, personally, I think when the building game gets a little bit better in Perth and you know you kind of can build houses back in your six, nine months, 12 months max mark, I think it might pull back a bit. But in all honesty I don't know how. About you? What are your thoughts?

Speaker 1: 8:07

I agree. I think when the building industry improves we'll see better market, see more tenants able to like build a home and getting to their own home and things like that which I'd really love to see, because you know like it's a double ended sword, like we have not enough stock but the other not enough rental stock for tenants. But on the other end, if we can get reduce the amount of tenants that are needing homes by getting them to build, then that's going to help the situation as well. But I mean I keep on that like I am noticing a little change in investor activity, that some are getting a little bit frustrated at the Perth market and just going. You know what.

Speaker 1: 8:49

I can't be bothered. It's moving too quickly. I'm not getting a bargain. So I'm definitely seeing people look outside of Perth, but I don't know migration levels to seem to be so high at the moment. I am not seeing any light at the end of the tunnel for tenants, unfortunately. But in the building industry I think we're still a way off. But I'd love to say that we've only got six months left of it.

Speaker 2: 9:11

But yeah, I'm with you on that, I think. Yeah, the building game is still a while off, I think.

Speaker 2: 9:18

From what I'm seeing and hearing from people in the game. Yeah, you got some builders that are obviously doing it pretty well at the moment and a lot quicker than they used to be even. But, yeah, I think the majority that took on a lot of the work is still got a bit of a way to catch up and it's going to be like this with migration and everything. That's just, yeah, another level, I think, from what it used to be. It's a whole another level and unfortunately, yeah, for the tenants it's going to be tough for a little bit, but I think there is light at the end of the tunnel. It will calm down, but when that is, yeah, I think maybe another 12 months.

Speaker 1: 9:48

Yeah, yeah, I think so. At least another 12 months to have a clear idea of, like you know what this will only last for you know. Three more months, six more months, 12 more months. Yeah, the couple of questions for you is, at the moment, working very much online. Are you doing a lot of in-person managements or are you doing everything online at the moment?

Speaker 2: 10:08

Look, I do so north of the river in my coastal corridor. A lot of it is in person. I find a lot of that. I like to get in person, if I can, at least on a zoom, something to put a face to the name and kind of build some sort of report. But I am finding and that's actually interesting to ask because I wanted to ask you about that as well was yeah, I find anything a lot of, obviously, the interstate investors. Basically all they kind of want is what are your fees, how much can you get for me and how was my vacancy going to be? Because I want no vacancy, you know. So it's hard to. I'm finding it. I do a lot of that stuff online. It's hard to build that rapport or any sort of relationship with these guys because they just don't want to give you the time of the day and I try and get them to zoom and a lot of them don't want to get them to zoom either. So that's what I'm finding, but I guess, yeah, what are you finding as well?

Speaker 1: 10:56

Well, I guess it depends on where the source is coming from, and so if they're finding you through social media, they're finding you through Google. I think that Real Market's got a pretty good SEO, so I you know they could be finding you through that and I there's actually I don't know with you. Listen to Jason Hull from the Door Show oh, door Show Grow or something like that. He's in America. Do you listen to his podcast?

Speaker 2: 11:22

No, I haven't. No, I might have to check it out.

Speaker 1: 11:24

Yeah, he talks about like where the leads come from and how likely that landlord is to be, you know, very fee driven, and he's actually found that the people that want to negotiate with the fees the most are the ones that come through like your SEO and through your Google search. So because that they're just getting on doing property management curve and finding you there, which totally makes sense, and so I guess for me, like, don't get me wrong, people do ask, but I don't think I feel like sometimes they just need a little bit of a win with a very small fee yeah passifies them.

Speaker 1: 12:07

But because they I mean for me, because they come through a referral network whether it's buyers, agent or other existing clients it's less of a problem for me because they're not shopping for me, because because of the SEO they're shopping yeah, that referral. So I would probably say like it's a really good thing for people who are listening, just to have a little think about where that lead is coming from. So and I and I guess you're, at the end of the day, everyone's got a different business plan. I'm not going to be here sitting saying don't negotiate, because there's sometimes you will negotiate and there's reasons why you would, and so and it depends on where you are in your business as well, but it's, I don't find it.

Speaker 1: 12:49

There's a massive problem for me and I think what's the mindset and maybe this is the an arrogant side of me thinks that If you don't come with me, like if you don't bring your business over, and because I'm being set on my fees, then it's not a no forever, because I know that you go to someone, maybe cheap or fees, and I'm actually even saying that cheap fees means cheap service, because I actually don't believe that either. But quite often I'm seeing a lot of business coming back to us from other agents and I don't know if you're seeing a bit of me.

Speaker 2: 13:26

I've had a few recently real recently that yeah, it's like calling a couple weeks later and they're like, oh, still haven't gotten an MA yet or anything, and I'm like, well, the option's still there. But I think, yeah, you're right, though, when you're letting in terms of where your lead source comes from like my buyers agents, referrals, referrals through, obviously, the sales team and a lot of other things, I'm not getting too much pushback. It's the guys that find me on on through the SEO that they're going, hey, you know kind of sinister fee where, yeah, the buyers agent referral networks, they're coming to you because they've been referred to you. So the fee negotiation might be a tiny win or nothing.

Speaker 1: 14:00

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I think that that's just something for like people to be mindful of, and if they are coming to you from the SEO and asking you to negotiate, like I'm, absolutely I couldn't care less where they came with me or not, because you know what. I've still got your name and your email address and your number. Yeah, I'm going in my database and I'll speak to you again in 12 months. So I feel like it's like a win-win, because you definitely don't you don't want to not get those leads from from Google, because but they're just like. They're just like your, your future leads, you know yeah now ones, but you get them in the down track.

Speaker 2: 14:37

No, I agree, I agree it's then. Then they just get in the pipeline and you, yeah, slowly, slowly, over time, yeah, you need that sort of business to though.

Speaker 1: 14:45

Yeah, we're very, and I'm not asking you to delve your secrets like that, but just because I think people find it interesting with your referral networks, you guys agents, have you found that that they have organic to come to you, or have you found that you've actually sourced them and like and put in that sort of, I guess, the hard yards of finding them and starting that relationship?

Speaker 2: 15:05

A couple. A couple I have. I have had to work a bit harder to kind of, I guess, build that relationship. And then a couple I've been referred to through a few of the sales reps. That's helped. So I just get my foot in the door and then I've nurtured and kind of build that relationship with them since I've been at RealMark which has been really, really good. So I'm not just getting the leads from the reps, I'm getting them from other agents that they're buying the property and doing all the walkthroughs and all you know that kind of fun stuff, pre-settlement and pre-purchase. But I love it. It's to me that's kind of the fun of the game. You know seeing different things and what's out there.

Speaker 1: 15:39

And it certainly helps having like an award winning team and like the likes of Shane Beaumont and all that in your team, because there's definitely seeing and getting hit up by so many investors right now. Like he would be such a source for a database.

Speaker 2: 15:56

Yeah, it is really good and I'm blessed that I have that around me to kind of, I guess yeah, work in my way and yeah, what can I say? I'm blessed and I appreciate it. It's been amazing.

Speaker 1: 16:07

Yeah, excellent. And is there anything that you have done specifically in the last two years that you have got better at doing since last time we spoke? Like, where has your personal development and all of that improved, do you reckon? Good question, good question I don't even be able to answer it, I'm throwing it, no.

Speaker 2: 16:32

I just got to take a step back from the, you know, to have a think. I think the way I deal with people I think I've always been a bit of a people's person but the way that I deal with different personalities and, you know, I guess, different conflicts, different questions, the way I handle people really is being got a lot better. And even handling myself, I think, like I'm very high energy, I'm very fast. I guess I won the award for speed at, you know, the rule market thing. It was like because I'm very quick and on the ball all the time but not everyone's like that and for me I think that's really been a big win for me is learning how to deal with different cultures, different type of people and their personalities and adjusting myself.

Speaker 2: 17:10

I'm not perfect and I still sometimes going and go oh my God, james, you'll wait too much. Man, like, calm down. But learning that has been a massive part. Yeah, for me, I found, especially in the higher end stuff, the higher end rentals, you get a bit of a different demographic and I find just here, working with them, I've learned how to, how to handle them and how to what they want, what they look for, and, yeah, that's been amazing.

Speaker 1: 17:31

And you'll probably agree that bias agents is as wonderful as they are, and there's an amazing one. There's also some really difficult bias agents out there, so really, yeah the special request. I don't know whether you get special requests from these bias agents, but that's hard.

Speaker 2: 17:47

Yeah, definitely you always get the odd ones, but overall they're pretty good. They are pretty good.

Speaker 1: 17:55

Now in terms of your future. Again, strategic planning. Don't need to give away your secrets or anything like that, but do you have anything in the pipeline that you are like? You know what? That's next to me. I'm going to get this done, that done, or like what's your strategy for the next six months, with what you're going to plan to achieve.

Speaker 2: 18:18

Look, I guess for me I don't have anything kind of set in stone, to be honest, but I really want to get my social game better. That's a massive part for me. I've got such a bit of a like. I guess I can play and tell interstate and things like that, and even locally now being with the team, I really want to up that side of my game. That's massive. And then building the team like around me is getting a bit more support to be able to take it to the next level. On my own. There's only so much I can do. So really building that team to keep growing is what my next plan will be next year.

Speaker 1: 18:50

Yeah, in terms of like a team, like a BA or an assistant.

Speaker 2: 18:55

Yeah, yeah, in terms of yeah. So I've got like a leasing agent who's a gem and is awesome at what she's doing, but, yeah, having someone that can do more of my admin, coping with my admin stuff, even with some prospecting kind of side of things, but be like another BDM and other mini James that helps me out and we run around together and, yeah, try and take this thing to the, to the next level.

Speaker 1: 19:15

Because you're covering all Perth at the moment, aren't you? You're not doing just like North or South? Yeah, the whole lot.

Speaker 2: 19:21

Yeah, so all up the coast down, you know kind of Cosmals, armadale Tree, v-ways. So yeah, I'm stretched at the moment a little bit, but yeah, I make it work.

Speaker 1: 19:32

It's interesting, like how do you know as a BDM when you're ready to bring on that next person?

Speaker 1: 19:38

Because I've had this discussion with our BDM and I'm like you need to tell me when you're ready for me to get you some support or somebody else in, because, from a BDM point of view, where you may or may not and this is just in general for people listening you may or may not be receiving a commission for each.

Speaker 1: 19:57

You know this thing comes through to bring someone in to potentially do North or the River or South or River or different areas. You're ultimately, you know, going to lose some of your commission. If I'm going to be completely honest, and so I found I'll answer it so you don't have to, because you know I don't want to put you in an awkward position, but I found that with our BDM, she's like oh no, I'm going to keep on going, I'll tell you when I need the help. So I guess it's really important as a BDM to recognize where your limit is, because I want to make sure and that BDM's out there don't push, push, push, push until you know you end up doing 60 hours a week because it's really hard to let go of you know someone that you're sort of sharing the role with.

Speaker 1: 20:45

I mean, that's just like me, sort of honestly speaking.

Speaker 2: 20:48

Yeah, I agree, I agree, I think, because what happens is, I think you get to a point that your service starts to lack something has to give. So, whatever it is, but something has to give. And I think, yeah, I'm kind of like, yeah, about to. I guess I've always said kind of I've got my limit, and when I hit that number consistently, you know for a quarter or six months, then I want to look at right, well, I need somebody here to and, yes, I think I might take a bit of a hit for, you know, three months say, but hopefully that's going to help me then help us as a team get to the next level. So taking that minor sacrifice to take it to the next level is, I think you have to do it at some point.

Speaker 1: 22:00

It's very different to a sales rep. Me bringing on a PA is like it's exactly the same and you know in that situation they might share a commission or whatever, but it does help you get to that next spot. I think that we will. Probably. We're sort of starting to introduce a couple of tasks to a VA, but it's hard because you know, managing authorities are different, fee schedules can sometimes be different and it's sort of like actually we found that a little bit hard to introduce but we're going to probably keep trying that for the next sort of six months and get that support.

Speaker 1: 22:38

I recently well, actually not recently now, but five months ago I actually found my own VA. I'd rather call her a PA because that's what she worries, because I just needed a double me. I just needed someone just to help me just with all the crappy stuff. But just like the social media and the connecting and the engaging and the posts, and every time I have like a random idea, just texting someone and saying, hey, can you schedule this into socials, like when you're on the road, so much having someone just to quickly do that rental appraisal for you or adding someone to a database, just stuff like that. Because what I found was that when I was out on the road I would have been a whole long list of things I had to do when I got back in the office. So I was trying to eliminate that, because then sometimes I forgot. So I got my own PA directly.

Speaker 1: 23:30

I paid personally, like not through business or anything like that, and she helps me hugely and I have to say like for me it's worked really, really well, even if it's just to help with your social. So, like I do, I still create all my own content, but sometimes just being able to message someone, say, hey, can you schedule this in there, it's just so much easier and has really cleared my mind and, you know, my brain space to not have that constant to do list and you know I need a post again, I need to do this and then do that. Not sure, because one thing I have noticed really great with you is I have been noticing your social media and you have been posting. I've seen the properties and all of that that you've been posting. So it's definitely coming up and I'm seeing it. So that having some support with those random photos of you and your videos.

Speaker 1: 24:26

I don't agree. But just yeah, just flicking that to someone, that you might even have a marketing person in the office that can do that, I don't know. Yeah, but I agree.

Speaker 2: 24:34

I agree with your big time when you're on the road and you've got all. Then you get in calls bombarded to you got all these things going on and you're on the road all day. You get home and it's like right now I've got to do my whole to do list and it's like, wow, okay. So yeah, I feel you 100% on that.

Speaker 1: 24:51

Have you heard of an app called Brain?

Speaker 2: 24:53

Toss no.

Speaker 1: 24:55

Brain Toss is the tip for today's podcast. Okay, and you literally why. You're like on the road or whatever it is. You just like press the app and you just can like voice tick to phone or you can take a photo of something. But it's so simple that the minute you just voice record or take a photo of something, it automatically emails you.

Speaker 2: 25:15

Oh, wow.

Speaker 1: 25:16

It's really cool. So I would recommend that because then if you have got someone to help, you know, with your emails or anything like that, you can then just flick that onto them real quickly to help with that admin support and keep your mind a little bit, a little bit clear. So that's a good app to have a look at.

Speaker 2: 25:35

Oh, I'll check it out. I might have to get it Definitely, definitely. Help anything I?

Speaker 1: 25:39

think I have a question for you because mine's interesting your BDM to property manager process. What does that currently look like now for you?

Speaker 2: 25:50

So I do the appraisal, the management authority, all the advertising, marketing side of things, get it on the internet. Once it's on the internet I then have my leasing agent who comes into the picture and she takes over the leasing side of things from homeopens and all of that. Owner updates, all that kind of stuff. I'm still there. I normally check in once a week as well just to say hello and see how things are tracking, make sure they're all happy Once the property is leased. So she does the whole leasing. Once it's leased it then goes to the property manager. I organize all the ID side of things your certificate of titles, building insurances, landlord insurance, bmt, like tax depreciation kind of stuff, or asset reports. So I do all of that. We do like a compliance check which my leasing agent organizes. And then that way the PM it's meant to be the PM doesn't have to do much other than just intro to the tenant, intro to the owner and off they go.

Speaker 1: 26:48

Yeah, and that's working well.

Speaker 2: 26:50

Yeah, look, it's been pretty good. I'm a bit horrible with paperwork sometimes, making sure I've got everything in check. I just want to get the deal done, get it on the net, get everything nice and get it leased. So, look, I'm not amazing with that. I've never have been. But yeah, other than that, it's working well.

Speaker 1: 27:06

Yeah, excellent. So we've talked about the predictions. What's next for you? You've got your personal goals and so next 12 months you would like to see maybe an extra team being built a little bit, another person on the team who is doing? Do you give a lot of like renovations and project management?

Speaker 2: 27:31

I do a little bit. I do a little bit. I just to be honest, I try not to do too much of those big ones Like I'll certainly help out, you know, get a house painted, new flooring, little things like that. But when it comes to the kitchens or bathrooms I tend to try and steer clear if I can. I'm all for wanting to help, wanting to help, but it just takes up a lot of my time. I have to go and do project management type of stuff and I don't charge for that.

Speaker 1: 27:52

How do you have that conversation with the owner, Like when they say, hey, can you organize like some quotes for a bathroom Renault or kitchen Renault? What does your conversation look?

Speaker 2: 28:02

like Normally. So normally I'll get a quote but I'll let them do all the picking and all the colors and all the whatever they want to do there, or and I'll get them in touch with the contractor Once the quotes been done to explain and go through all of that. I tend to not have those conversations. I'll kind of just look, I'm happy to help and pass you on to some contractors that I have that I work with a lot that can certainly help. I'll organize access. I'll organize that type of stuff Once they get the quote then then I'll get them in touch with you and you guys can have discussion and then I can facilitate the access, which is quite easy.

Speaker 1: 28:34

Yeah, that's probably one of our pain points at the moment. We go a lot of properties that need work done to them, so we're just implementing a charge for that now and folks will see the charge will be. It'll allow people to go. You know what? We'll just do it ourselves to avoid pay, ideally because that's just a pain point for us, and taking that on because it's very, very time consuming and it's a year as well sometimes to trade. But just, they're just expensive. I mean not their fault, they're just expensive.

Speaker 2: 29:08

Yeah, they are and then and then the time takes the delay in it as well. I got a couple of trades that I use that are really really good and quick and they'll kind of do a lot for me, which I'm thankful for. But if I have to go to anybody out of those couple, yeah, it just takes so much time and like I like to go to someone that it's not a kind of one stop shop probably isn't the way, but they've got a few different trades in their within their business that can do the whole kind of job. So if you wanted to do a bathroom, they've got people that can do the tile and they can do the plumbing, they can do the shower screens, they can do all of that. So you go to the couple that have one stop shop kind of people. They get you the quote and then it's just easier doing all that I find than getting a separate tile or a separate painter, separate, you know, shower guy personally.

Speaker 1: 29:49

Yeah, yeah, absolutely All right. So we have gone from regular cold calling and litter box drops. We have been fluid and moved with the times into the referral agent market and obviously that goes without saying that that is performing really well. That is our update with you and I'm really excited because I think we should just make this like an annual thing, because it's really cool just to see how things change. Make sure we're consistent with what we're doing as well. Like I said last time we spoke, that was when I was like I need to get on to doing litter box drops. James is doing it. I'm not doing that, but I'm actually starting that next year.

Speaker 1: 30:32

So it's taken me that long to get on board, but I'm going to start doing it because we need to start looking for six months, you know, six months ahead how it's going to change Because, like you can see just from speaking to you, things change so much with our marketing style and all that we do have to stay very fluid to it, and I'm really excited and curious to see, like what the next year is going to look like for the BDM rot, how it's going to move, like what are we going to have to be doing next and connect to next to, you know, keep and maintain the level of management that we're currently bringing in, and like whether that's sustainable or not sustainable. It's going to be really really, really interesting, I think.

Speaker 2: 31:20

Yeah, definitely it is. It's going to be. I think it'll be an interesting ride and journey over the next year as we navigate through everything. I think it's yeah, but I'm excited It'll be good, it'll be, good. Hopefully it's a cracking year.

Speaker 1: 31:31

Yeah, absolutely Well. I look forward to chatting to you again in a year's time with your progress and see how it's all going, and it's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast again. So well done. You're doing very, very well with your BDM work. It's really great to watch you as well.

Speaker 2: 31:46

Thanks very much. I appreciate it. Thanks for talking to you.