Get ready to redefine the way you manage your property teams, as Eser Yildirim, from the dynamic organization Flock, joins us for an enlightening conversation. Eser's unique insights into the workings of Flock, his intriguing perspective on caring for property teams, and an introduction to their revolutionary training platform on Monday.com are not to be missed!
We navigate through the treacherous waters of staffing shortages and multi-generational workplaces, with Eser shedding light on how to strike that elusive balance in job descriptions, pay, and benefits. He also emphasizes the importance of creating an environment that fosters empathy and compassion, which is crucial in dealing with challenging situations. Our chat takes a turn towards the importance of training, delegation, and regular meetings - all critical components of nurturing trust between staff and managers, and ensuring everyone is on the same page, thereby minimizing turnover.
Last but not least, we dive into the concept of approachable meetings and the crucial role of leadership. Essa shares his approach to fostering a culture of appreciation through regular one-on-one meetings using Monday.com and the importance of feedback through exit interviews and 360-degree reviews. We wrap up with a potent discussion on the balance between competition and collaboration in the workplace and how to create an approachable culture that fosters team bonding. This episode is promised to be a treasure trove of insights for anyone keen on strengthening their property management teams. Join us for this captivating journey!
The PIP Advantage for Landlord Insurance
Up to $70,000 contents cover included in our landlords policies
14 months cover for just 12 months premium in your first year
Further discounts when you have three or more properties insured through PIP
24/7 Australia-wide claims service
Online Real Estate Agent Portal for easy access and management
Visit their website
Keep your property managers doing what they love and outsource the things they don’t to a company that thrives on positive feedback and guarantees a premium personalised service
www.propertyassistwa.com.au
This weeks sponsor is On Tap Plumbing & Gas - 24/7 Plumbing servicing all of Perth from Mandurah to Two Rocks.
www.ontapplumbinggas.com.au
6206 6888
Get ready to redefine the way you manage your property teams, as Eser Yildirim, from the dynamic organization Flock, joins us for an enlightening conversation. Eser's unique insights into the workings of Flock, his intriguing perspective on caring for property teams, and an introduction to their revolutionary training platform on Monday.com are not to be missed!
We navigate through the treacherous waters of staffing shortages and multi-generational workplaces, with Eser shedding light on how to strike that elusive balance in job descriptions, pay, and benefits. He also emphasizes the importance of creating an environment that fosters empathy and compassion, which is crucial in dealing with challenging situations. Our chat takes a turn towards the importance of training, delegation, and regular meetings - all critical components of nurturing trust between staff and managers, and ensuring everyone is on the same page, thereby minimizing turnover.
Last but not least, we dive into the concept of approachable meetings and the crucial role of leadership. Essa shares his approach to fostering a culture of appreciation through regular one-on-one meetings using Monday.com and the importance of feedback through exit interviews and 360-degree reviews. We wrap up with a potent discussion on the balance between competition and collaboration in the workplace and how to create an approachable culture that fosters team bonding. This episode is promised to be a treasure trove of insights for anyone keen on strengthening their property management teams. Join us for this captivating journey!
The PIP Advantage for Landlord Insurance
Up to $70,000 contents cover included in our landlords policies
14 months cover for just 12 months premium in your first year
Further discounts when you have three or more properties insured through PIP
24/7 Australia-wide claims service
Online Real Estate Agent Portal for easy access and management
Visit their website
Keep your property managers doing what they love and outsource the things they don’t to a company that thrives on positive feedback and guarantees a premium personalised service
www.propertyassistwa.com.au
This weeks sponsor is On Tap Plumbing & Gas - 24/7 Plumbing servicing all of Perth from Mandurah to Two Rocks.
www.ontapplumbinggas.com.au
6206 6888
Today I have another international guest that I'm super excited to hear from. His name is Essa. He is from Flock and he is from Washington DC. Essa, welcome to the PM Collective Podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me today.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to get you to intro yourself, because I haven't heard the story and I'd love to sort of hear a little bit about you, your background and what Flock is and how it operates in the US. If you can share that with us all.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes. As you said, my name is Essa Yildirim Flock is a parent company of a number of birds that all deal with property management or property related services. I work for Nest DC and we specialize in individually owned condos, row home, single family home management. We manage about 1,200 units in DC and we've been around for 14 years. We also have birds that manage HOAs here in DC. We also do home maintenance through another sister company. Then we also have a philanthropic wing bird seed and we specialize in providing grants for minority families, first time home buyers. We've been fortunate enough to fund that program and see a lot of happy people by their first homes here in DC.
Speaker 1:I've got a few questions in regards to this. Is the word franchise something that you have over in the US, yes? Is Flock like a franchise, or is Flock just a company that has companies underneath it Exactly?
Speaker 2:Yes, we are not a franchise. Flock is just our mother bird, as we call it. That ties all these other companies together. Great All under one ethos and all under one vision.
Speaker 1:I love that. Who is Flock owned by then?
Speaker 2:Lisa Wise is the founder and owner Our HOA management. Roost DC is actually an employee owned company. I think that will be a nice topic for our conversation today.
Speaker 1:Wow, I just want to quickly ask you about number one. I actually really love the branding and the language that you've got with Flock. I think that's incredible. I've never heard a business or a company be so clever with it. That's really great to hear those wings. The birdseed funds I love that. How do you raise funds for those grants?
Speaker 2:We do contribute a portion of our profits towards that. Lisa contributed her own funds to get it started. The rest is through business partnerships, through donations. We've had a number of our clients through Nest offer donations. We're looking to continue to grow that so that we're able to offer meaningful grants to people.
Speaker 1:I love that. Would people apply for a grant and then, as a committee or a board, you would decide where to put certain funds?
Speaker 2:Exactly. There's a couple of requirements, but it's really open to a pretty wide pool of people. We do get a lot of applications and we're hoping to approve as many of them as we can. It's amazing $10,000, $15,000 is often the difference between someone being able to own their home and start that journey and build generational wealth. Here in the US, seemingly small amounts can really make a big impact.
Speaker 1:Wow, I love that. That's really awesome. The topic today is looking after the team that cares for your properties. As mentioned just briefly before, we have businesses in Australia have definitely got a pain point when it comes to staffing on some different levels. The first pain point is the lack of staff. You put an ad out and there's just no one around that applies. That's one issue. Second issue would be multi-generational workplaces, which is one of my favorite topics. I think maybe the fact that a lot of people are uneducated in how to manage a multi-generational team. I think I heard somewhere that this is the first time we've ever had five generations working in a workplace. I think that we as a society are quite inexperienced with that. That's one of the other problems that we've got as well. That's what's happening in Australia. I would love to hear a little bit about Flock, about the size of, maybe whether it's all the businesses or all your business yes, things that are special and things that you do that stand out and are a little bit different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's definitely a tough topic. Property management is already one, I think, an industry that experiences a lot of turnover. It's a high burnout industry, and so this is something we've been trying to focus on and something our founder, lisa, has always prioritized is taking care of the people that are running the business and taking care of the properties and taking care of our clients. We don't have five generations in our workforce here at Nest, but there are certainly multiple generations of folks. I think it's nice to see the diversity in the workplace. That diversity brings different ideas and different approaches to the work, and I think that's what helps with creative problem solving and not being stagnant with the same approach to the same problem all the time.
Speaker 2:Our approach to taking care of your people really starts with, I think, the job description and the pay and the benefits, but I think that's only what gets people in the door. From there, it really is creating an atmosphere that excites people to come to work. The work is not easy. It's not one. Generally, people are rushing to praise their property managers. Usually, you're hearing from people when they're at their worst, when they're unhappy with how something is going, when their home is flooding, high stress situations and I think creating a workforce and creating a team that enjoys taking care of people in those situations, that can show empathy and be compassionate about the problems that people are coming to us with, is important.
Speaker 1:It's funny you say that, because I think I see a lot of nurses that become property managers and a lot of people that have been in that caring, nurturing role that have gone into real estate and they're the people that have got that true need for helping and caring and nurturing.
Speaker 2:That's funny, A majority of our staff actually come from either restaurant, hospitality, retail we have a number of teachers so, similarly, all positions that really look for taking care of others. The customer service approach I come from a restaurant background of over 10 years before I joined Nest and I've been at Nest for almost six years now and that's really one of the things that drew me to work for Nest and Flock is that customer service centric approach to everything, and what really drives me every day is taking care of the clients, and so, yeah, I think that's an important factor in building that team is looking for people who really enjoy that work and not just the property side. I think that's very interesting. I really enjoy real estate and all that comes with, but I tell folks on sales calls all the time, managing the property is not the hard part Fixing an appliance, fixing a faulty HVAC system that part's pretty simple.
Speaker 2:It's the relationships that you're building that really make a difference. That really turn a house into a home is taking care of the tenants that are living there and taking care of the client who owns the property that way, and so that's really our approach, is really focused on that, and then bringing that in-house I consider my team. I consider them my customers as well. So I've always said you have your external customers and your internal customers and if you think of your team like that, that they are also your customers, I think that really shifts the mindset of how you may approach that next difficult conversation or what you are looking for to create in the office and create that excitement to come every day.
Speaker 1:So, with your team, have you had any plan that you will recruit inexperienced or experienced, or a bit of both, like what's the recruitment process look like for you?
Speaker 2:We've done both. It's always great to have folks come in the door that are knowledgeable about the industry and ready to hit the ground running. But I think that also comes with some challenges there, and I think that's applicable to any industry. I had the same issue in restaurants. I see people come with the bad habits from their other employer or other companies. But there is something to be said about having that knowledge and awareness about the industry.
Speaker 2:I think ultimately, whether you're hiring someone without experience or with experience, the training that you invest in is really critical, not just training around the industry and the ins and outs of management, but really how you want them to approach the work and deal with clients is really in that. First we do 90-day training, so that first 90 days a lot of touch points, a lot of feedback. We do a 30 and 60 and 90-day check-in to kind of review the job description, review pros and cons of how things have been going, check-in to see what challenges they've been having. So it is a two-way conversation. In those check-ins it's not just oh, here's what you've done wrong, here's what you need to do better and here's what you've done well. It really is a conversation between both manager and employee to make sure that they are set up for success.
Speaker 1:And so would you do the same 90-day training for people, whether they're experienced or inexperienced.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I always assume the best in people, but start from zero, start as if they know absolutely nothing and allow people with that experience to really show that off. So if you're going through a training about fair housing, I find that folks with the experience will still appreciate kind of reviewing that, refreshing it and have an opportunity to be part of that dialogue in the training. So it's not just oh, here's a video to watch for an hour and I'll be back.
Speaker 1:I was just going to ask you about the training because I wing it How's the best way? And I've gotten away with winging it, so it's not that it has been a problem. But I get very jealous hearing of people that have the minute that you said, 30-day, 60-day check-in, 90-day plan. I would love to be that organised and to have that plan in place and to have the energy and maybe motivation to do that with every new staff member and I'll be the first to put my hand up and say it doesn't really interest me as a business owner and I know that it should and I wish it is something that I was just so obsessed with. So I would love to hear a little bit more about that.
Speaker 1:So you definitely I know you said the 30-day, 60-day check-ins. I think that's a great idea. I think and I'm very vulnerable on these podcasts so that people also don't feel bad if they have the same thoughts as me. We're not bad people. But having those 30-day, 60-day check-ins sometimes I just think, oh, I actually don't want to hear anything negative and I know that's wrong, a wrong attitude, because you want to hear that as well, but I do just want to cover my ears and shy away from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. It's something I think I've gotten better at with practice. One of our manager trainings one of the phrases that really stuck with me is clear is kind. Giving constructive criticism that's very clear is actually a kinder approach than ignoring the issue. Ultimately, if it's a performance problem or there's something happening that is not up to your standards, allowing that to continue is only going to make things worse. Eventually, this person is either going to need to be fired or go on a performance improvement plan, or other people are going to pick up those that bad habit as well. Those tough conversations are. They are tough. I think calling that out in the beginning of a conversation is perfectly normal. Hey, this is going to be a tough conversation, but ultimately I want the best for you. That's why we're having this conversation.
Speaker 1:You say that really well. You had to do it a few times.
Speaker 2:It's easier when I'm not actually facing a person that I'm having a conversation with.
Speaker 2:Fair enough, but it's interesting you said you're not too keen on the training and all that. I'm the opposite. I really like that part of the work. One thing I've had a challenge with is letting go of that to allow others to also participate in the training, but I think that has also helped. The training processes is delegating peers and even people that report up to a new hire and other managers. Having them involved in the training, finding out what part of the work that they are excited about that they're going to be more likely to be excited to teach someone about, is a great way to involve other people in the team. Lift some of that training burden off of you or off of whoever the training manager is, and really get that full experience.
Speaker 1:That was my next question. It was how does it happen? Do you say, okay, the new employee is dedicated to you for days one to four, and then this person, sally, takes on inspection training on these three days and you passed around? Is that how it works?
Speaker 2:Yeah, our first few days are with our HR team, just going through the fundamentals and getting them set up with the tools and logins and all of that. Then their manager will then take over from there. We really put a lot of control and ownership on the new hire. We use Mondaycom, which is like an organizing tool and software. We create a specific training platform for that employee, specifically for their role specifically. It's broken down by day for the first two weeks and then it's broken down by week. You can customize it and move things around.
Speaker 2:If something is missed that's not time sensitive you can move it to the following week and really helps you keep track. But we put the ownership of that on the new hire so that they are really driving their training and taking responsibility for what they have not scheduled yet, who they haven't met with yet. In there you can assign yeah, fair housing is going to be with Lydia and inspections is going to be with. So it really gives them a chance to meet more of the team holistically as opposed to just at the next big team meeting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ok, excellent, that's really great. So then they've gone through the 90 day induction and they're now a fully fledged part of the team. Are there any regular things that you do from a meeting's point? So we'll talk about the meetings first, with the one on ones and the staff meetings. How regular are they and do you do them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have always been a big supporter of regular one on ones and I think the frequency of that really depends on your workspace and how often you're interacting regularly with each employee. We do weekly for most of our staff and I think those one on ones really again going back to kind of the training conversation it's a two way conversation. The way I structure my one on ones is not just me telling you what needs to get done, what hasn't been done, what's coming up Otherwise. I think you're wasting time right. If it's something that could be in an email or a message, that's just me talking at you, then why are we spending an hour in a designated space? I think it really is an opportunity to open up and talk through more than just the day-to-day and what's on your plate right now, but kind of really the bigger picture and help foster those relationships and trust in your staff to be able to come and talk to you about what's going on. I think that's the only way that I can know really what's going on with each of the teams is to have that trust in my staff to be able to come and tell me and say, yeah, we're really struggling with this, I may not have a solution or an answer right away, but at least it starts the dialogue.
Speaker 2:It starts the conversation of oh, wow, yeah, that tool we invested in last year maybe is not working the way we envisioned. You're the ones using it every day. If you're running into roadblocks, if you're running into difficulties or there's a better tool that's come out, let's explore that, let's talk about it, because ultimately, the work is always going to be tough. The clients are always going to have problems, so the more barriers you're put in front of them to be able to solve those, the harder. The harder it becomes, the more burnout there is, the more turnover you're going to have with your staff. And as much as I love training, I don't want to have to do it more than I absolutely have to. It's really, really time intensive. So we meet.
Speaker 1:Oh, there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry, I was just going to say, yeah, we meet weekly one-on-ones and then we also do team meetings weekly and that's kind of more like hey, what's going on? What's the focus for the week? That's a bit more of the focus on the actual work.
Speaker 1:If your team was to get bigger, would you and obviously one-on-ones there's only so many hours in a day would you be inclined to who? This is just like a, not a trick question, it's just a question. So team gets bigger, currently doing weekly one-on-ones, are you more likely to get another person in to assist with one-on-ones on a weekly basis or would you change them to four-nightly?
Speaker 2:I've done both Folks who are performing really well who may not necessarily need that weekly touch point. I'll switch that to every other week or four-nightly. I think one of the big complaints about just office work in general is I have so many meetings I don't have time to actually do my own work, and so, yeah, we also want to be mindful of that and make sure that we're not having meetings just for the sake of meetings. One of the practices we put in place two years ago now is, if we have a short week because of a holiday or whatever else, we'll typically cancel all internal meetings Because, as we know, in property management you have a four-day week, you still have seven days worth of work, not even five days worth of work.
Speaker 2:Everything continues going on, even when our office is closed. So, given that time back when you don't absolutely have to have a meeting, I think staff really appreciate that, knowing that we're not scheduling these just for the sake of doing it. There is intention and there's purpose behind it, and I've canceled team meetings before last minute or with short notice because I wasn't prepared, and that's. I don't want to just stand up there winging the meeting and lose that valuable time and lose that trust in my team that this is with intention and purpose and so if we have to cancel a meeting, we do that to order reschedule.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, it's good, I am.
Speaker 1:I think one of the things that I took from what you were talking about is being approachable.
Speaker 1:I think that's something that a lot of business owners aren't aware that they are being unapproachable and it's not easy for people to go and just ask them a random question during the day. And I work in an open office. So my office environment I don't have my own private office or anything like that, and I think there's probably a lot of offices that maybe do have private offices for the business owner or the top of the management hierarchy. And I mean I don't want to say it's the wrong thing to do, but I think that if you do have your own office, I think you should be quite mindful about your door being shut and quite mindful that people know it's okay to walk in your office. And if you say, well, they can't walk in my office without me inviting them, I would say have a good hard look at yourself and you're having staffing issues that could be one of your problems. So I don't know if you have your own office and then how you deal with being approachable in that, or do you have an open office?
Speaker 2:It's a little bit of both. I do have my own office. It does have a lot of windows that face into the office, so even if the door is closed, you know I'm waving it at folks as they walk by inviting them in. But likewise, yeah, I think being approachable is really important to be able to allow staff to come to you when they act, when they really need something. You know if there's something with a client, you're likely to get tapped when they need support, but if it's something that's internal, you know they're having an issue with another employee or they're having an issue just with their workload. I want people to be able to feel comfortable to come and talk about that. So, and I think those regular check-ins is part of that but I think what Nest does well is also create opportunities outside of the work to build those relationships. And so you know, having staff events, having quarterly meetings that are longer, and really an opportunity to completely close down the work itself and put things on pause and really focus on what's happening at the company, what's happening In our industry. Where are we looking ahead to? What problems do we need to address? Those types of things I think are really tough to have in a 30-minute or one-hour meeting, and so creating those opportunities to allow people to speak up and allow people to participate in the process is what helps people buy into the company.
Speaker 2:Something Lisa does, our founder, that I always love seeing as well, is she'll do what you call her lunch shuffles, and so she'll invite four or five people from the different companies to a lunch and it'll be an hour or two hours off site. You know laptops closed, no, you know no minimal work talk. But I think that also creates opportunities to get to know someone that maybe you don't interact with on a daily basis. Get to know the founder of the company. You know her time is certainly valuable and generally doing things way above the day-to-day work, but her willingness to be approachable, to spend time with someone that was just hired, you know, 90 days ago, I think really speaks to the culture that she wants to create, and then that trickles down.
Speaker 2:You know, I see that I've seen that for the six years I've been here and it inspires me to want to do, you know, want to do similar and create those opportunities for people to say like, oh yeah, like I can go to Esther with any problem because I know he'll be willing to chat and if I'm slammed, if I have a meeting coming up, generally my response will be this sounds like a great conversation, but I don't want to rush it.
Speaker 2:So can we schedule a time you know, later today or can I pop in? Are you free in an hour to chat more? And I think that just that tells someone like you are valuable and the problem you have even if it seems simple to me or seems like something you should already know, it's important to me to invest that time in you to make sure that you feel confident or you feel like you have the tools and resources to be able to address this and hopefully, if I'm doing that well, then they're solving that on their own the next time or they're teaching someone else how to do that. And, yeah, I like seeing that. I like seeing that progress and that you know that aha moment when it's like, oh, yeah, okay, this isn't as complicated as it seemed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I actually use that line on clients. When they call me up and I'm trying to do something, I always say to them listen, I can help you, but I don't want to rush and, you know, give you the wrong advice, so can I just call you back later and do it, and it's a really good way of being busy but not making them feel like you've interrupted them too much. So, yeah, and it does value the clients as well as, obviously, with stuff I think it's great to use. And tell me, do you see any mistakes in other businesses that are like a common thing in your area, but where do you think business owners get it wrong?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. I'd say two things come to mind. The first one is the what you're incentivizing your staff with, and you know, yeah, salary bonuses, you know money, money talks right, but I don't think that's the only thing that that incentivizes people or encourages people to stick with. You know, stick with a job, stick with the career. I think it's the opportunity to be meaningfully challenged and see growth and projection and find interest in the work that you do, and so creating opportunities for that for folks, I think is important outside of just oh, here's a, you know, here's a spot bonus, here's a $5 coffee gift card. While those things are nice, I see companies that only do that and I think you lose folks. You know, the bonus thing is interesting because it's great to get a bonus, it's great to get additional funds, but when you ask someone three months later what their last bonus was, I think most people can't answer Right. So it's very short term excitement. I think it does. When you tie it to a performance thing, there is some motivation there, but but I think ultimately it can't be. Your only compensation plan is just I will just throw money at the problem. I think the other one that comes to mind is really the workload and work life balance. We've tried to get away from saying work life balance because we can only create the work part of that and it's really on the individual to create the balance in their own, in their own world. But I think it is important to know the work that that you're assigning out and understand the complications and barriers.
Speaker 2:So I try to get into the work occasionally. I actually don't try. I get into it often. I enjoy it, but also it gives me an opportunity to really see, you know, what the challenges and barriers are to to success.
Speaker 2:And so you know we're in summer here in DC and it's the peak of our leasing season. I'm leasing a couple properties, going to showings, you know, working through some of those new tools that we've invested in in the past year or two First hand, and I asked my managers to do the same. And of course you don't want to get lost in that and and and give up the opportunity to do bigger, bigger picture projects. But I think having that exposure really, you know, working side by side with folks really shows like number one. I'm not above any, any work that we do. I'm, I've done this, I'm also willing to do it. Number two yeah, I had the same problem that you did, and so I can now understand why that's a stress for you when you're doing it with a much larger you know workload as far as, like, the number of properties you're carrying. So, yeah, let's work to figure out like how we can, how we can overcome this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am. I just want to go back on a couple of things you said that I love, and one of them you just you know you mentioned the bonuses and you know, three months later they quite often can't remember you know how much it was or maybe what they did with the money, and it's that whole. You know people, people forget what you say, but don't forget how you made them feel. And so I think you know, just giving someone something, you know it is, there's no fee, no, I'm not, there's no feeling like there's no real experience, is sort of just handing over a bonus. And something that I've learned along the way is I think my style is what I would call structured management, random leadership.
Speaker 1:And because I am very random, in my style of management there's not anything that's a routine or that we do on a regular basis. So sometimes we might go, hey, let's go out for dinner, let's go out for lunch, let's go do this activity. It's very random, and even at Christmas time we do random events for our Christmas party. It's never the same thing. So I think those things are appreciated a lot more, like if I was just to randomly buy a coffee for someone. That is so much more than someone just expecting flowers on their birthday every single year, because that's what the business does. It removes that, that, yeah, that random feeling of oh wow, like a nice little surprise, because it's never tied to an amount, like whether something was $3 or $300. It's not about the money, it's about that random act of kindness. So for me, not that I have done that on purpose, but when I reflect on my style, that is what I've done and now I'm conscious that I think that that's what's worked for me. So I like that.
Speaker 1:You mentioned that, mentioned that bonus. The second thing was you going out into the field. So again, this is a like. I hope there's business owners that are listening that maybe could recognise if they're not doing this. So for me, I would be the first one that would jump on front desk and hands and hand a walk in enquiries or when someone's on leave, I help look after their portfolio generally with another staff member who does the main stuff, but I'm still there helping doing it and you know it might be my turn to go pick up lunches or coffees and I'll go do that. I don't think as a business we definitely don't run with any what I call vertical management. It's all very horizontal management.
Speaker 1:And I listened to do you know, a guy called Dave Clare I don't Okay, he's a Canadian guy, lives in Australia and he I was watching a TikTok of his the other day and if someone, if you're listening and you don't follow Dave Clegg, go and follow him. He does live in Perth, he's an amazing guy, he everything that comes out of his mouth is just like music to my ears and he had a video the other day on TikTok and what he said is that the leader in the business that is sort of and, dave, if you're listening to this, I'm not probably saying it the same way you did, it's like my little bit of shop but what he was pretty much saying is that the leader that is you know doing the work and has that energy and that motivation and really you know driving the company. What happens is people around them, like the team members, they will rise. What did I say? They will rise 15% in that same direction because they're following the leader. But if you are a leader or a boss that is not you know, moving forward, creating that motivation in the company and you're sort of like you know you're down the bottom, then people will fall 30% in their productivity. And he obviously does a lot better than what I do, but it's sort of like something that I thought that's really interesting because I know that I, you know, walk the walk and talk the talk.
Speaker 1:But I know so many business owners and I will, I'm just going to say it straight out. It's generally sales led directors, business owners that are sales reps, high performing sales reps. They are the ones that are not, they're not really interested in property management. They actually have no interest in getting into the. You know the nooks and crannies of it all and they but also the first people to complain when they've got staffing issues and it's like but you can't, you can't just have an office with four walls and expect them to perform if they're not, if they don't have someone to look up to and to inspire to and want to impress and wanting to do the best.
Speaker 1:For I just and I don't know how, I don't know how, like you can, without being offensive to people, say I think you're the problem. So one thing I wanted to ask and I know I'm putting you on the spot with a few questions is you know what would you say to someone like if, how or how would you recognize if you were the problem in the business? Like so for you obviously you're not a problem in the business, but if you were a problem in the business, what would? What would your business look like?
Speaker 2:I, I gauge I typically gauge that by by turnover, yeah, by the number of employees that are are leaving the workforce, especially those leaving it for a similar position. Yeah, right, so I had folks leaving, you know, for for different careers or different interests or or relocation. But if someone's leaving property management for another property management role to me that says there were, there was something missing here that we didn't provide, whether that was was good training or or good growth and development or just good support. So I think that's really a big indicator of of the culture that you're creating in your workspace.
Speaker 1:Would you do exit interviews with your team if they leave?
Speaker 2:We do. Yeah, we try to as as much as possible and to you know, to take that feedback and really take that opportunity to self reflect. Of course, at that point it's it's potentially too late for for that individual employee, but I think chances are if someone feels that way, they're not alone, and so the the feedback that you get in those interviews is really not about that person, it's about what other issues are happening that that you may be blind to. We've also done 360 feedback and so that's feedback both up and down and that's anonymous, and we've we've hired outside companies to come in and perform those, so they are really unbiased and ways to to collect that feedback. And really that's an investment as well, not just in in your staff but in any leadership positions, because it gives you that opportunity to sit down with that manager and say, hey, here's the feedback we're getting from your peers, from your supervisor, from the staff that report to you. Here are some areas like that we can invest in developing.
Speaker 2:I think so often high performers are promoted to a managerial position and I've seen this in the restaurant industry as well as as property management and then really not provided the foundation to be good managers. They're. They're good role models, like, okay, great, you can do this role, this position really well and you're setting a good example. But that's very different than managing someone, than than coaching and training and being able to provide feedback that is going to motivate and correct and improve performance. And so I think you know, really taking regular opportunities to to look at that and and figure out what am I, what am I missing, what am I not seeing? That needs to be addressed is just as important as as facing the you know, the very glaring, obvious problems.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now I am going to finish off, because I've asked you a few hard questions. I'm going to finish off with one last, very difficult question. It might be difficult, it might be easy Restaurants or real estate, which ones? Which ones the easiest?
Speaker 2:Easy. I don't think either is easy. I'll take the. I'll take the easy answer out. I think they're. They're both challenging in different ways.
Speaker 2:What I loved about the restaurant industry is is the excitement and positivity surrounded around it. Right, most people, if they're going out to a restaurant, it's to celebrate a birthday, an anniversary, a reunion of friends. You know it's, it's already tied to a very positive experience. So you kind of teed up to just really knock it out of the park. And obviously I love food, I love just everything around that atmosphere, the, the, the problems you face, at least with clients, are generally short term. Right, it's that moment, that instant. It's okay, your appetizer is running late or this food wasn't prepared correctly, you can fix it a lot easier than I think.
Speaker 2:In property management, where the issues are are more longstanding, those relationships are much longer, and so that excites me because it is it's it's not just a one instant relationship, it's a longstanding relationship that you get to build over time. And so, yeah, I think both industries are very interesting to me and I think come with their own set of challenges From a staffing perspective. I think real estate and property management provide a lot of different avenues for growth. We have a lot of folks who come in because they're interested in the leasing side of things and that's. You know that's where I started and that's all I paid attention to. You know I was exposed to a lot of the different elements that then kind of intrigued me, and you know the compliance and fair housing and the maintenance side of things. You know you have a lot of diverse opportunities to expand your knowledge and opportunities for growth in a very interesting industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my. For those that don't know my personal, my personal what's the word? It's late at night when we're recording this, so I'm losing my words, but my ultimate goal in life would be to be back in hospitality, waitressing or behind a bar, like I loved my early adult years working in restaurants. It's still something that I just dream of doing, maybe when I retire, or I don't know when I would do it, but I just that that is such a happy place for me. So I can definitely see the similarities in it. I, yeah, you, definitely it's.
Speaker 1:It's very easy, obviously, to fix things in the restaurant world, but that's actually one thing that I find in real estate is, when problems come up, I feel that the quicker you can make them go away, the better for everyone Sometimes. I remember I had a team member they were spending I reckon it was about a week back and forth, back and forth on this issue and I went up to her at like in the second week and I said how should we talking like, what are you arguing about? And she goes oh, it's $300. I said here's a check for $300. Make this go away and stop wasting any more time on it. It's, you know, it's. I think, yeah, the quicker you resolve it, make, like I said you know, make it go away real quickly. Sometimes it means you've got to give a little to make that happen, but you know what it's worth so much more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it always amazes me when people don't factor in the value of the time that's spent on a problem. I see the same thing very frequently and it's yeah, we don't want to, we don't want to be just writing. You know, concession after concession At some point, if it's retaining a client, if it's making your staff happier, you know, just removing that problem from your staff's day, the amount of stress that just dissipates immediately. You can see it, and so I think that's a very wise $300 to spend.
Speaker 1:Totally and sorry, I know I'm meant to be wrapping this up, but I just wanted to bring it back to like with restaurants and supermarkets and real estates as well.
Speaker 1:I assumed that in the restaurant industry there would always be in, you know, a P and L or in the budget, an allowance for maybe I don't know rotten food, mistakes, errors. In a supermarket there's always an allowance for stolen goods because the stock you know what I mean, stock gets stolen. I mean, I'm just again going to say it, real estate is the same. I agree, I don't think you should be giving out, you know, money and money all the time. But on a large portfolio, if I was to pay out probably these days I actually haven't had to for a while let's call it $1,000 for the year, you know, in a couple of little things over the whole year, in the whole scheme of things, that is a very, very small portion that I'm not going to be worried about. And I think all businesses have a little bit of a slack for mistakes, errors, stolen goods, rotten food in restaurants. So would that be fair to say? In the restaurant industry there was always an allowance for.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely yeah, Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:But we don't talk about any real estate because no one wants to admit that they do it.
Speaker 2:And no one wants to admit that they made a mistake. Yeah, you know, I think that's something we do very, very well. You know, take ownership. I tell people all the time we're not perfect but we care about what we do and we're happy to work to fix it, to resolve it. Sometimes that is sending someone back to make a repair at no extra cost. Sometimes that's just issuing a monetary concession and at the end of the day, that piece of mind that you get, that the problem is resolved and hopefully your client is feeling the same, is worth 10 times as much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and so I appreciate your time so much that you have no idea how valuable this listen is for business owners property managers, department managers just to really be like a fly on the wall and listen to conversations, you know, between two business owners on staff and how you do it and things like that. We don't naturally call each other and say, hey, can you tell me how you do this in your office, because people are too scared to sort of ask for help or they feel like the other person doesn't want to share you know, potentially secrets or things they do. So it really is very generous for your time to share today and I know people listening are really they're going to love listening to it and seeing the alternative with managing a team.
Speaker 2:It was absolutely my pleasure. And something I really admire about Lisa is she doesn't look at our competition as competition. You know this. This is an industry that has a lot of stigma and a lot of negativity around it, and I think anything that we can do to help others out and improve the service that we offer is really ultimately better for for everybody. You know we're dealing with people's homes, we're dealing with people's investments, and so just to see, you know, everyone do better and to trade ideas and how to improve that, I think, just benefits everybody.
Speaker 1:You have no idea because we're not Facebook friends. But you have no idea what I posted on my Facebook page and I'm going to read it out to you, because this is exactly what you said. I posted a little meme and it says competition happens at the bottom. The people at the top are collaborating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how perfect that summarized. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:I'll have to send it to you so you can show Lisa and say please do what it's all about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and for those who are listening, if I offered you at least one thing that you can change in your office and I'm grateful and happy to have done so- Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2:Thank you.