From Zero to Hero: How Katie Johnson Built a Thriving Property Management Agency

Travel with us on an incredible journey as we follow the inspiring tale of Katie Johnson, a bold entrepreneur who transformed adversity into opportunity. Battling health issues and financial constraints, Katie leveraged her determination and the support of mentors to launch her property management business. She shares her story to inspire and guide those contemplating the leap into business ownership. 

Despite her initial financial limitations, Katie found innovative ways to get her business off the ground. She cleverly converted her car into a mobile billboard, created a strong brand image, and harnessed social media to build a following. Listen closely as Katie details the resources she utilized, such as grants and mentorship programs, and emphasizes the importance of having a strong support network. 

Learn from Katie's experiences, including her decision to hire a Business Development Manager and her focus on investing in quality marketing materials. Katie further discusses how strategic partnerships led to business expansion and why taking calculated risks can result in growth and success. As we wrap up, Katie emphasizes the crucial role of mentorship and generously offers her guidance to anyone in need. So, tune in for this motivating conversation that proves that with the right mindset and resources, nothing is impossible.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:26

Welcome to the PM Collective, a dynamic hub designed to empower business owners, property managers and BDMs to excel in their careers Through access to intimate conversations, cutting edge of video training, mental health support and unparalleled motivation. Our community is the ultimate destination for individuals seeking to elevate their professional lives to new heights. So sit back, relax and enjoy our next conversation on our weekly podcast, the Art of Property Management. I am super excited to have the lovely Katie Johnson on today's podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:01

All you Listeners and we have got a really good topic that is not really talked about and we're going to really sort of dumb it down and just break it down, because it's a question that people don't naturally like to ask, because it's like it's about financials and starting up a business. But it's really important to know how everyone has done it in the past. So and so what I'm talking about is starting a business, and how much money do you really need to start a property management agency or a rep role? So, katie, over to you. Can you please intro yourself and let everyone know about you and your business and where you started and where you are now?

Speaker 2: 1:44

Okay, well, firstly, thanks for having me. I'm excited to get to chat with you again and I'm super passionate about this topic because I'd started in property management and, truth be told, I used to get a little bit bored with it. I would go to these conferences and just be so inspired by, like you know, people like Dennis Yusuf would talk and I would sit there and be like, oh my gosh, like you know, I want to do this, this and this, and you'd come back and you'd be like taking photographs of toilets and like the mundane things, and that traction would sort of wear off and I'd been in the industry probably for quite a while, like you know, at that stage, and so I'd always known that I wanted to work for myself. But they're the kind of, like you know, pocket dreams that you keep to yourself because you don't know if they're entirely possible, but you know in the back of your mind that's always what I wanted to do, and so when I was running a franchise here locally where I am, you know, I got a little bit of business experience behind me and look really, really long story short, whilst I was working for that employer and I mean, you know, working pretty typical in our industry. You know it's never 38 hours. I would literally be doing, like you know, probably 60 hour weeks getting paid 38. Then got pushed from team leader into a joint sales role as well and was enjoying it. But you know, to get a flat wage every week, you know it almost hurts yourself worth.

Speaker 2: 3:11

And when I was, like you know, sort of like raising money for the cancer council, doing like dancing with the stars locally, I had found and been told that I had seven tumors in my thyroid and really made me reevaluate where I was going, being regional at the time, coming from a metro area, that was really hard because I thought, okay, well, if I don't have cancer, I'm going to give life a red hot go, but if I do, like you know, obviously that's what my year will be, so Australia 2018. I found out that I was cancer free and meant they could never come back. So I was like, right at the time I had asked my boss for the time off for the surgery and you know, given I work six, seven days a week every week, I thought, you know, not a problem, right, like you know the big C word like and he told me people you know have worse in life. And he said he had given me one of the three weeks off and said, okay, we'll play by here. Now I went home and spoke with, like you know, my pretty new partner at the time and you know, my mom, and they were absolutely appalled and they were like, you know, quit. But I'm like, okay, but where to from here? If you've worked up to a team leader role in property management and you're in a regional area like team leader roles are, they're not a dime, it doesn't like property management roles. And so I knew that I could probably get a walk-in start as a property manager here, or, you know, tamworth, which is about 45 minutes away. But once again, I knew that that wouldn't fill that cup. Like you know, that passion just wasn't there for that. For, you know, a property management role. I really liked the team leader role and I had big ideas.

Speaker 2: 4:47

And so sitting in the hospital I saw this star sign and it said you'll overcome, you know a hell scare and embark on a business venture. And the lady from Chamber of Commerce at the time said look, why don't you go out on your own? And I was like Stacy, like I have zero dollars now, like the three thousand dollars I think I had saved lasted approximately, like you know, a month with not not working, having quit. So I thought, do I go back to a metro area or do I stay here? And you know, and she planted that seed and so I then rang Dennis and Darren and said to him look, you know, thought I had cancer, had you know, pretty major surgery, but I'm fine now can't come back. I also have just found out I'm pregnant, wasn't supposed to be able to have kids. So so much shock. And you know genuinely thought they would be like you are crazy. You have zero dollars, girl. No, now it's not the time.

Speaker 2: 5:43

And Dennis distinctly said what took you so bloody long? And it was those words. And I thought, you know what, if people like Dennis and Darren can believe in me and think I can do this even under these circumstances, the one thing I knew about myself was that I am so determined and it like I don't ever allow myself to like. You know, it's like single swim mentality, like values, not an option to me, and I don't care if it's you go through, plan a fails, plan b fails, you keep going until you find something that works and that's, that's all I knew about myself. So I looked into this big C of blackness and it genuinely felt like that, just looking out into, like you know, the darkness, not knowing for someone who'd had one, three, five year goals that'll be in blown up. So I was like, okay, where do we go from here? And you know, and it was that fear, it's that betting on yourself and taking that leap of faith and just hoping and praying that it works out.

Speaker 1: 6:40

So, so going just back a step, because in WA we need to be licensed to, you know, operate a trust account and have the business. Do you need to do that as well and did you have? Had you already done that, like the done the course, and had those licenses?

Speaker 2: 6:57

Good, great question. When I was in, when I was in hospital, my mom had said alright, you have not had time off your entire working life since you were 18, why don't you take this time? First week home from hospital is like, so bored. I'm like, oh my goodness, I can't do this. So reach out to the Ariane South Wells.

Speaker 2: 7:18

I had done the search for which is what is called the licensing course here now, but because I had done that back from 2009 to 11, I believe, the modules had changed so there was a gap. So they had essentially started telling me I would need to redo the search for licensing course and I said, look, I've been in the industry for 10 years and I was only four modules short at that point. So that narrative down there I believe the name was was really lovely and said alright, well, maybe we can just have you sit an exam, will test your skill level and then we can look at that. So obviously past exam with flying colors and all they made me do was just the trust accounting module. So then I was able to get the license already.

Speaker 2: 8:37

So I know there's some people here that's like obviously the type class one and class two. So I know a lot of property managers now are the class two and they've just got to try and then get their license and so but yeah, look, it took me like less than a week, I think, for two weeks out of hospital and I had the license. And so I was kind of like, okay, well, first tick on the box down. What's next?

Speaker 1: 9:01

what I want people to hear is that if you are a property manager and if you even have the tiniest little bit of inkling that maybe it could be something that you might consider in five years, ten years, 20 years, I would encourage you to make that decision now and start exploring the option of doing the course and doing the modules. And, because it's no rush, because you don't plan to do it in the next 12 months, at least you've got it, and I think I love having choices. I remember I did my diploma back when I was 20 years old, after a couple of years in the industry, and I did it then, not because I don't think I thought that I wanted to have with my own agency, but I definitely thought well, you know what, if I do it, then I've got it and then, if I have the opportunity, I will you know, I've done it and it's dusted and it's that whole one step ahead.

Speaker 1: 9:57

And I think people should, despite the whole movement of living the present, we also need to be one step ahead so that you know what. If you do have that crappy job and you do have that time in your life next year or the year after, where you go, you know what that? Like I'm out of here, I'm going to go start my own business. You've got your, you've got your diploma, you've got your license. Like it's not going to ever be wasted either, because I've got someone in my team actually who's just going to start doing it. It's not going to be wasted because you know what, if anything, if she never has her own real estate agent, she has done that extra education for her own personal career anyway.

Speaker 2: 10:37

I think it's really good. I'm someone who's a bit nerdy, like my resume, even if, like, I don't need a certificate for something, like I've done courses and things just because I think, oh, that'd be great on the resume. So I'd always thought maybe I should get this and I'd had you know, employees in the past, you know, offered to help me get it and it just didn't eventuate. So, yeah, in the end I'm glad that I did and I got it. And I was lucky that I got in right before the big changes here in New South Wales, because I think then they'd changed the timeframe longer before you could operate solo once you had it. I think it was 12 months or something then. So it just I don't know if you believe in the universe, but everything that happened that year, like I used to see that I don't know if it's meme or meme on Facebook at the time and it would say your employer will literally replace you within a day if you die and, like you know, basically the takeaway is put yourself first. And so when I, like you know, quit that job and didn't know, like you know, where I was going, like you know it was, it was such a wake up call and it was like the universe was screaming at me girl, get your ass into gear. Like you know, we've got bigger things to do. And so I've just followed that, like followed that through sense and everything else that happened after. That just was so organic. I just wrote a bit of a to-do list and was like, okay, well, where do you think you should start? And you know, one of the first things I thought is at the time I was doing a lot of research and our local council actually give grants. So I would really advise people as well don't be afraid to look for help in those areas. There are grants everywhere. Our local council, you know whether people love them or hate them, they're really supportive of new business. So I actually applied for a grant.

Speaker 2: 12:23

I remember walking in there, you know, with my application, and on the same day I'd been speaking to this lady from I think it was like Jobs Australia or something like that, and because I'd had to go on Centrelink, which was mortifying when you've worked your whole life and you know that's not a lot of money either, you know, to try and survive on. So really, still in that like thick fog of you know where am I going and she asked me if I needed help with regimen. I said, no, look, you know mine's pretty good Senator. She said, oh geez, you're more qualified than we are. And she actually then probably changed my life in the suggestion that she said look into the NIS program. And so that was a government program.

Speaker 2: 13:04

So you go to them basically with the business idea and if they see merit in that, they will invite you to do the three month pre-course. Now for me, I was obviously heavily pregnant at the time, incredibly sick, but I pushed myself through that three months. It was a two hour round trip, you know, to go over and do it and that was great. Like you know, they have a business mentor who's there. You're there with other people who are, like you know, obviously a little bit like-minded and once you complete that pre-course they will offer you a placement.

Speaker 2: 13:35

And so from there, like you know, I think it was around $680, $700 a fortnight they would give you towards your business. Now, that didn't matter, if you were partnered, you could be partnered. It didn't matter how much money your business was earning, you literally like, that was your money. So even if the business was making, like you know, a million dollars, which I know it's obviously unlikely, but it wouldn't have mattered that that money would be yours for a nine month period, and then you were given a business sort of you know mentor for a 12 month period thereafter to sort of you know, see you through the transition. So it was such a wonderful tool. I then found out that I was given, I think, a few thousand dollars from the local council. So whilst, like you know, starting out that's not a huge amount of money, it definitely helped. I was able to put that into marketing and branding my little car and things like that.

Speaker 1: 14:26

So I was just going to ask you how you spend that money you like. So you've given, like you know, hypothetically $2,000 grant money. What's the best way to spend that $2,000? And like did you spend it the best way? Would you have done it different in hindsight?

Speaker 2: 14:44

Good question again. Look, a few thousand dollars feels like a lot, but you kind of tear through it quite quickly. So I got my little car branded at the time I was still paying off my little RDA one I'd brought up with me from the city and so I got the logo on it and that was such a moment, it was so exciting. And you know being like at the time like you know, living on, you know, $700 of Fortnight was incredibly difficult. So I was scraping every cent. And I think that's the biggest lesson I want people to learn is, like you know, I didn't start with there was no cash flow, there was absolutely no backing. I didn't have clients that I knew were immediately going to come on. I was broke. We could not fill our fridge with food. We'd scrape dollars together for pasta sauce jars, like we literally were in the tightest financial situation we'd ever been. After I had to quit my job, so it was very scary. So to be given 3,000, I wanted to utilize it. So some of those bigger ticket items.

Speaker 2: 15:44

I've got a fellow who's become like a really, really close friend, craig. He has this company in Melbourne called Clicky and he was sort of like a few years into his business journey and I genuinely feel like he says the other day he's like no, I didn't take pity on you, but I know that he's always looked after me. And I just went to him and said, look, I need a website, but I have literally like not much money at all. So I created myself a website on Wix and that's very embarrassing to show you someone who's like a graphic designer and does websites and I was expecting him to like laugh it out the door and he actually was very kind and said it's actually not that bad, kate. And so what he did was he then just added the really difficult, like you know, like you know the appointment bookings and the plugins. He did those sort of difficult tasks and I think he charged me maybe, like you know, $500 instead of the thousands, like I'd been quoted, between three and 5,000 to create a website. And I thought, for someone like me, who it took, like you know, probably two months to save up $180 for business cards, that was just not going to be possible. So, once again, I think you know it's who you know and if you're honest with people, people genuinely like to see the underdogs, like you know, come up and win.

Speaker 2: 17:02

So at the same time, because I'd been raising money for the cancer council, there was a fellow I interviewed as part of that journey and he'd had testicular cancer a couple of times and he was similar in age. So I reached out to him. He was working for a local printing company here who was providing the printer at my old work no-transcript. He was like I was wondering what happened to you and sort of told him the story and said you know I need to do because I was doing a lot of coursework at the time. I was doing the cert three in business management with the niece program. You come out of that with the cert three as well.

Speaker 2: 17:36

So you know, back then we still use paper. We had to print. So he said look, I actually have a decommissioned really big like old copy I. He said it's too sense of copy. He said how do you like, how do you feel about that? And I was like you are an angel and so I so remember the bring it out and willing it up into the house and I was so excited to have, you know, you just a printer so could start print like printing brochures and letterbox dropping. And he then put me in touch and this is the domino effect that I think the universe, if it's meant to be, it, will just fall into place. Yes, you have to push and be determined but, you hear, put me in touch with a lady from Maury who's been 18 months into her business Journey and it's really important to surround yourself With others who are like minded, who understand that journey, because I was able to ask her those questions.

Speaker 2: 18:27

Like you know, property management Software where I'd been working was a little bit old school. They weren't really up on cloud base, it was very new at the time and I wanted something where I could work from home or an office and, you know, sort of looking into the future and she was able to say, oh look, why don't you try property me? And you know, really sort of like helped make some of those choices a bit clear and she's like it's cost effective. And she was able to tell me, you know, like I read at the time, the membership if you went through a particular insurance company for the business, they actually would give you a year's free membership with RII, which meant I got RII forms, live for the documents then essentially for free, and Then, like you know, through the needs program.

Speaker 2: 19:11

They said, look, is there anything we can help you with? And I said, well, look, the business insurance is quite a lot of money. I don't know how I'm going to pay it, and the last step with niece is you have to have the insurance in place before you can start trading. So they actually said, look, we can help you cover that. So they sent me to jobs Australia and they actually paid my first year's worth of insurance. I didn't actually have to cover that. So you know, there's so much help out there. But I think when you're looking into the abyss, you you don't know where it is, and so I kind of learnt like a ping-pong ball, you know, just speaking to different people who put me into different like you know spots and the things I learnt, like you know People just don't really like sort of know where to go. For that you know, for that help. So what you're doing is is great Ash.

Speaker 1: 19:58

Yeah, well, and what Kate's referring to is the the startup course, mentoring course that I'm doing because because I've had four people Reach out to me in the last couple of weeks and you know I'm considered a safe person to reach out to to ask questions how do I start up a rent roll? How do I do this? So I created a mental group where which is no cost, where people can, we can talk about those things. But a couple of things I've just written down my notes that I just wanted to go through was. I absolutely agree with you. I trust the universe immensely and and I'm thinking that this podcast will be one of those signs that someone is Listening to, has been thinking about it, and this will be their sign to go out and do your course and take that first step. So I I wrote down a hashtag Hashtag, universe speaking. So whoever's listening to this podcast, if this is the sign that you needed, share it on my On my Instagram, tag me into it and hashtag universe speaking, because I think that'll be fun to see how many people. How do you do that?

Speaker 1: 21:08

The second thing is Definitely the local branch. I think you're absolutely right. People do not know that there is a lot of support out there and While like so, some businesses like me started off with borrowing money from a bank. So I remember borrowing thirty thousand dollars against my mortgage at the time and then bring it into a business account and I paid myself from day one and that's how I that, and you know I I budgeted for six months worth of expenses, including my wage. However, you've done it a different way, which is so great to hear where you have collected those grants and you have lived. You know Rick scrapes through like from a personal point of view to make it work, and I've actually got a friend who did exactly the same thing as you as well. So it's actually more common than what people think and I think that's really interesting for people to hear.

Speaker 1: 22:02

The third one I just wanted to go through with you and I you talked about doing your signage on your car, which I think was probably really smart, but I have had a lot of people respond to my, my messages or my post about this mental group and Well, it's actually really funny, is that?

Speaker 1: 22:22

A couple of people who messaged me I was quite surprised at and I messaged them back and I said how many rentals do you have Thinking that their presence and by their presence They've got maybe more than you know what I thought, because in the mental group it's really for people from that zero to maybe 50 properties. Anyway, this lady messaged me back and she said I can't remember how many, she said maybe 15 properties and I was like, wow, I actually would never have guessed that because your social presence is so good. I just assumed you had a couple of hundred. So what to touch on? Is that by you having that car and by you having that branding, you know that you don't have any properties, but you know one else knows that, do they? And it's funny, the whole perception of marketing.

Speaker 2: 23:11

There's actually a thing called I've spoken to but my therapist about it over the years like I've got a team of ladies that I go to when like it's a little bit too much and I go in and, like you know, have these little explosions and then I'm good and I had said to them through this journey I felt like an imposter. Now I just want to, I want people to be prepared for that because 100%, pretty much, you're pretending to be the person you're eventually going to be before you are that person. And so, 100% at the time I was just lucky that you know, I lived in a metro area, so I had saved up a deposit. I brought this little Audi A1, which was a, you know, quite a flash little, cute, cutesy car. So it was a perfect company car. So when the pink, managed by Kate, went across the side, it just really looked very elegant and, you know, like you said at that time, was hilarious.

Speaker 2: 24:06

I have three clients and here I am driving around in an Audi, so I would also save up really hard. My mom was always at me about like spending money and wasting it on different things. She could never understand why. I would say you know, go in by a revenue blazer and matching skirt combination. That was, you know, much more expensive when you could probably get something so cheap. It came on and I'm like, because it's, you've got to feel confident and if you're going into an appraisal and you feel like, oh, I'm in a $15 came out skirt and it messes with that, that mentality, save up and buy, even if it's one outfit that makes you feel good, buy a pair of shoes or a bag that makes you feel wonderful, walk down the street with confidence. And so I think that was a big thing.

Speaker 2: 24:49

Like I've been very conscious from the beginning about branding and now, five years in, it's quite funny that people when I asked them the question you know, where, did you see or hear about us? And you know a lot of them are like you know, oh well, I've seen you out and about, I've seen your car, you know, I see your signs and social media like huge, it's something that's free. So I used to run little giveaways, campaigns and do like quirky things and I have, from the very beginning, tried to educate investors and tenants because no one was doing that here. Everyone did the generic, just listed or for lease or leased, but no one was really actually doing or filling in that part of the social media market. So I've branched into TikTok, instagram not so much Instagram but Facebook love it and so I was able to build a pretty big following.

Speaker 2: 25:42

And then what I found was really bizarre Like these people, like these big name people in our industry, would add me when I was still fairly like new in this realm and I didn't know who they were. So people like Josh Tesslin, who, I read in a article, made $7 million last year. I'd been friends with him on Facebook for years or we'd go to conferences and I'd see, like Leanne Pilkington from like you know, who was director of the like, president of the RRI, and things like that and they would just start adding me and I never understood why. So I had actually created such a presence. So, like you said, ash, I think that people felt it, they could see it and that was important.

Speaker 2: 26:21

I would actually argue with my marketing guy, craig you know my BFF from Melbourne a lot and we would be at loggerheads because I said to him I need an office. I'm in a regional area and that was a really big point where he was working from him. He was like absolutely huge overhead. You do not need it, I'm like.

Speaker 2: 26:40

But for me, I knew that I, in our area, I needed that presence on the street, I think, to show people I was serious, I was here and, like I said, we've got so many agents servicing the one area. Most of them are generational businesses who have been here their whole lives. Like they've got friends, cousins, like 10th cousins probably. I was new to the area and I've had to grow from the very beginning and what people won't know, because I'll talk your ear off is I actually get quite anxious, and when I'm not in work mode I actually don't have a lot of friends or networks. I tend to keep to myself quite a lot, so I wasn't networking or doing those things that are probably really important to do, and so it has been a slower growth journey compared to, you know, agency metro areas, even the ones here, who is probably much easier for them, you know, to start here than it was for me.

Speaker 2: 27:32

So, yeah, look, you've just got to go out of that comfort zone, I think, and, like you know, exhaust all the different avenues and it's okay to not have all the answers because guess what, with every different situation you like, you learn something new and that's all it is. I was once told by an old business mentor. He said you're a rockstar, kate. He said time's just got to catch up. Didn't understand what it meant then, but I guess you know as a 36 year old woman now, rog, I'd like totally understand what he meant by that.

Speaker 1: 28:02

So and we all, we all make mistakes. I think for me, my biggest mistake was something that I've only realized recently, and this is after me being in business for 18 years. So I was always told you know, ash, you're the business owner, you should do your BDM work because you know you convert easy. And that was true and but I hadn't sort of drawn into me, so I never looked at any other options. I just thought I've just got to do my own BDM work and I was happy to do it. Don't get me wrong, but when I hide my first BDM. So now, after 18 years of business, I decided to get a BDM because the work was just coming through, our team was growing, it was becoming quite, quite full on and Sam joined our team in October last year and after a month I was like I regret not making this decision earlier. I should not have listened, I should have got a BDM way earlier on in the game and it was an absolute, true investment.

Speaker 1: 28:57

Having heard so for me, I kick myself every day why did I not do that earlier? So we all have those stories. We all have those things that maybe we would have done different. I definitely would have done that different. I think I would have also probably made the switch to some really cool technology programs earlier on in the game, instead of now having to, as our portfolio gets bigger, now having to make all those changes.

Speaker 1: 29:25

I feel not having to make those changes, but having to make those changes if we want to make sure that we've got room for growth and capacity and streamlining everything. I feel like if I probably took it a little bit more seriously in the early days with my processes and programs, it probably would have been a bit more seamless. So that would be my two mistakes that I probably would have been proved on if I was to start the game. But I love the mention that you had with the free marketing. I hate spending money on marketing, so if I do, I'm very, very careful, very careful, and there is just so much free available that I don't, and I think you would agree that that shouldn't be absorbing too much of your budget, not when there's too many free options.

Speaker 2: 30:11

Look, social media is wonderful because it is free and you can be so creative. And you know, like, as I see you, you're quite big on TikTok and we spoke about this in the States last year. You can get, like I accidentally dropped a cough medicine bottle when my kids were sick on a stove top at home and it was ceramic and it smashed it. And so, like I was like, hey, cool, grabbed, like you know, the phone and was like, hey, tenants, like you know, be careful what you're storing above, like you know, because everyone does, like a lot of people use that as a medicine cabinet above, like the stove top and it had over 10,000 views. So, like I mean, if you had to pay for that on Facebook or anywhere else, like you're spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars. The one area I have spent a lot of money and, look, I don't know if it could be controversial or not, but for me, a real estatecom account here was huge, so I actually do. And, look, I had to save up for it. I started off with domain because they were so much cheaper at the time, but they just weren't getting as much traction. I don't think, and I certainly couldn't afford to have both at the same time. I then transitioned to both. I was featuring on both, but the amount of thousands I spent last year in marketing was was just crazy. So I ended up like letting go of the domain subscription and stuck with real estatecom. But I do spend a bit extra because the other bigger agencies can't afford to spend it across the board, like you know, and a lot of them don't charge as a point of difference. They don't charge for marketing. So you know what I do now. We do the 360 tours. We, like you know. So there's a cost obviously in buying the tripod but you're using, like your iPhone, so make sure you've got the latest technology and you know you pay that off each month with your bills. So we got the 360 tours. We do the video walkthroughs on TikTok, like you know, just trying to utilize every avenue. We use places like Box Browning for, like, filtering photos, not over filtering.

Speaker 2: 32:09

There's a huge trend I've noticed with agents and it's like you wouldn't even know it's the same house Like. So we try and keep them very genuine, but if it's a gloomy day and it's raining, you know we might change out of sky or something like that. So we make sure our marketing is top notch because what I found in the beginning I had nothing to lease. A lot of the properties coming over in the beginning were people who had tenanted properties.

Speaker 2: 32:33

So the biggest traction I think I genuinely get probably is from places like realestatecom, because at the moment you know I might have like four, five, six properties to lease and so there's this sea of pink and it's the first thing you see because they're features and once again it's that illusion that you know what, oh, wow, and you know it might be just because the other listings aren't all in a row for the other agents, or they're unbranded or they're smaller. So utilize where you're spending your dollars. So to me I think that if I was to go back I probably would have done the same thing, but that's where I do spend a lot of the marketing budget is on those bigger ticket items and programs like realestatecom that are getting the audience like yeah, and at the end of the day, new management.

Speaker 1: 33:18

Whether you are thinking of selling or thinking of renting out your home, you are going onto realestatecom before you speak to the agent and to decide, oh I wonder what my property, you know, would get for rent and you would look at comparisons. So I agree, I think that is actually the first place that investors and selling they wanted to sell their homes are looking first. So it makes sense. I still can't bring myself to pay for a banner ad that you've made me something. I shouldn't stop being so tight with my money and pay for it.

Speaker 1: 33:52

Yeah, for me, like I think when I started, because I didn't have any listings either, I used to do a lot of two let's just so I could get those listings on realestatecom because I still value, I still knew that people that's the first point that clients were looking at.

Speaker 1: 34:09

So I just had to work out a way and I find it even I think I contacted people on gum tree and just often to advertise their folks for them. You know, like I'll just advertise the I think at the time it might have been $100 of, for example, on realestatecom and I would say to those private landlords listen, I'm happy just to advertise your property in real estatecom and they I used to put their details. This is going back, you know, a long time ago I put the client's details so they didn't get all the inquiries but I would still get that presence of. Okay, you know, we've got a, we've got a listing up and that's how I got a bit of traction. So there's just little things I guess that people do is about looking busier than what you ask sometimes isn't?

Speaker 2: 34:53

it. I think that's what it is. It's traction, and I find that in the beginning you kind of have a stop and start and you might get on a roll of a couple of properties and then you think, oh yay, it's happening. And then you might have like a period of nothing. And that's one thing I really want to convey to people. Self doubt is the biggest killer and you've got to push through it, because in those early years it won't make sense. You will have a lot of stop and starting like that's what it felt like to me two steps forward, 10 steps back quite often, and then even going into my third year, you know, and obviously ask these two, two babies in as well. So I wasn't always in a full gun hoe capacity, nor did I really know what I was doing. To be honest, like I have absolutely winged this, like I just knew that I felt like the universe, there was a higher purpose, and so even three years in and four years in, I was still having very serious self doubt.

Speaker 2: 35:48

I was still, I think, three years in, I only had around 30 managements and then, after the birth of my son and I'd had a pretty rough time with that and, of course COVID. So we'd gone from two years of drought here. Who opens a business during drought, I don't know, like you know, but I did and then we literally almost just survived that. And then COVID come in and then we had all of these like sort of lockdowns, and so it was kind of a blessing to me in a sense, because I could be home with my babies and work from home. It almost made that that a normalcy where prior to that it was not normal. You were almost at a disadvantage being a mobile agent if you didn't really have an office space. But then after COVID, like you know, I literally remember having to ring my car insurance company one day and the lady answered and I could hear her kids in the background. And then I got transferred to a guy and guess what? His kids are in the background. And you don't often hear that with men. They don't have the same problem set that women do. So I just thought this is great. It's going to change our industry and I think it has. And same with applications, you know it meant it's no longer rude to ask for them up front, rather than you know you may be having like consistent open homes showing huge volumes of people through you kind of know from the applications and might only have to show through a couple of like potentials, like sorry, it kind of. You know I think did actually create some positives.

Speaker 2: 37:18

I still remember my competitors, probably, like you know, panicking when COVID hit because none of them had been cloud based yet. But to me I'd already been set up like that for that. You know the previous like two years, so it didn't really change anything. So it was kind of really good. They worked in with motherhood for me and you know whatever else.

Speaker 2: 37:37

But once he was born, I remember about the four month mark, I got a phone call from, like you know, a local church and they had a ton of old nuns quarters and you know he asked if I'd come in and meet with them. Now I had literally just had a pretty severe C-section. My husband said you can't even walk and I said you watch me. So I totaled in there. Like you know they probably thought what is wrong with that, but I was like I can't miss this because you know it's equivalent to about 12, 13 managements. And so when in and met with them and they were very impressed and sometimes it just takes that traction, just that, like you know, one or two in a row to change your mindset, or you know, to get a landlord who might have two or three.

Speaker 2: 38:18

So from there I remember a couple of different owners from different agencies ringing one agency in particular. Don't know what was happening there, but a few of their clients rang. One of them had four properties each and then one of them actually referred a sister and she had a management and then she ended up bringing another one on and she referred someone. So to build that traction, don't be disheartened. It may not happen in a year, it may not even happen in two. For me, even three years in I'd only experienced. And then, once that big traction happened, guess what? It stopped again.

Speaker 2: 38:52

So last year, going into my fourth year and even the start of this year, I thought, okay, you're only about that. You know 60 to 70 management, how do we grow? And I had this conversation with my property manager at this time and I think the universe delivered like an agency from Sydney who sell off the plan up here. I'd just been chatting to them for about a year giving them free advice, you know, just being really genuine. No, I wouldn't look at this area. Yes, this is a great block, whatever else. They then said look, would you mind if we referred our clients to you? I was like, absolutely. And they didn't even ask for a commission, they didn't want to split, they just wanted their clients to be so well looked after that they would then be happy enough to invest again. So I take that very seriously. So look for your referral partners, because you know they can be anywhere. And that same company now have put me in contact with the New South Wales BDM for that builder who I had a meeting with last week and has, like you know, quite a substantial amount of properties coming on in different areas.

Speaker 2: 39:56

That's another thing we had to look at here, like I know, in metric areas you might be, you know, say, half an hour out from another suburb or 20 minutes in traffic. Here we are one suburb of 13,000 and then there's about an hour and ten radius to everything else. So it's about 45 minutes to an hour to tan with, which is the biggest sort of major city closest to us, and you know there's a lot of pockets of smaller Towns. I'd never considered, didn't really want to branch out. I thought I might branch into the Hunter Valley. It's where I'm from. It's a metro area. I thought, as a backup to the rent roll here, in case we ever experienced drought, in case the mines, sort of.

Speaker 2: 40:35

You know, you weren't performing well again, but what has happened is the clients I have here have properties in surrounding suburbs and so they were really, really pushing my clients. They were like you will be looking after this. I'm like I don't look after them if they're like no, no, you will be looking after this. And I was like, oh, look, okay, I go over there regularly for office supplies and whatnot, so why not?

Speaker 2: 40:59

And I've now branched into quite a few pockets of areas, like you know, one is the town called Necruna Barraburin, and they had very few agencies there, so I think there's only one or two and like, whilst it's only a three or four thousand population, there's not much competition there. So people are seeking me out and so I no longer I'm looking for work like it just comes to you. So look at those demographics, look and see how many agents are servicing what areas, and just be best strategic, I think as well, with, like you know where, where you are looking at servicing, because it's much easier to get business from there, then here, where there's, you know so cutthroat. It's like one of 14 likes.

Speaker 1: 41:40

so yeah, I am. I have similar Situation where we were very much just like the local High-polar we were, and then I, probably years ago, I started getting queries for about 45 minutes South, which I would have done, but I was getting like a lot of them in a row. I'm from a referral partner and then I thought you know what like stuff, I'll just see where this goes. And now we've got probably I don't know 300 or more properties in that location. I'm glad that I said yes, that even though it's not my core area, it now has become a core area and I've revolved my business now into pockets so that. But it was because I was open.

Speaker 1: 42:21

I think I know there's gonna be people this is a very sort of maybe an unpopular opinion, but people I think can be quite fussy at the start and I get the whole. You know you stay true and you know you know, bring on properties like in your area. But the truth is I said yes to a lot and you know what? I said yes for my first hundred and then I go okay, now I've got a hundred, now I'm gonna go. Okay, what?

Speaker 1: 42:48

What pockets are working? Where am I getting all the enquiries from? What location, what demo you know? Location is the best one, like where the majority are coming from. And sure, at that point I started probably being a little bit more careful with the pocket I was creating. But but I did that because I wanted the business, and I'm not talking about bad business, I'm talking about business that maybe is outside your area and you've got time to service them. Maybe just consider where it goes to and maybe you might be surprised that it could be potentially the pocket that your business needs to be focused on and not where you originally thought you wanted to focus on. You know me.

Speaker 2: 43:28

Hundred percent and that's what I have it. You know, I just got goosebumps when you're saying that, because that's exactly what's happening in this little pocket. I started to get these calls and I was like what? I didn't even know where this town was I think I've driven part through it once on the way back from one of Dennis's conferences to get fuel like I genuinely didn't know. And so I pulled the map up and I was like oh, and started looking at the demographic. I had this one owner from out there and she had three and I thought, wow, to get three in Canada is? You know it's cut through it. It's really hard to get three. So I thought, look, I'll meet her. And so well, I was out there when I grabbed Subway for lunch and I spoke to the guys out there who are in the business and just asked them and found, you know, it is a clicky little town. There as well, a lot of the people had been born and raised and stayed there or they moved back. So just really like, got to know the area and this landlord she had all of the so I'm really careful with who I bring on. I probably could have grown Tripoli as fast if I had of reduced fees if I had of Just taken on anything that came in the door.

Speaker 2: 44:36

But it was really important for me to only take on clients who share my like values and my ethics. And you know, if they don't, I'm sorry, I'm just not willing to. You know, take on, you know, properties and people that don't align with with our core values. And so this lady was just so like such a breath of fresh air. Great investor cared about attendance so much and she literally said, like you know, to the in front of the tenants they said, will you be taking them on or will Kate be taking them on? And she looked at me, she said, well, I hope so. And she kind of put me on the spot and I was like oh and so from that I knew that she would probably be bringing those across. And then In the, in that sort of like you know, very direct interim, a fellow rang from Sydney and he had five that they purchased and he had said that his property manager hadn't got back to him in three months. Now I was like what, what?

Speaker 1: 45:30

what do you mean?

Speaker 2: 45:30

three months and he said, oh, you know, she's got some stuff going on like I don't want to bother her. I was like what? This just seems really bizarre. And then the more calls that I was getting, like you said it just and then I was asking them Well, where did you hear about me from? Like I'm an hour and 15 minutes, like you know, way outside of here and in my mind still that imposter syndrome, I'm still little, like I'm, you know, not worthy, whatever else, not realizing that you know there is that presence that people do see, see you over social media and people talk about you.

Speaker 2: 46:01

And the way it happened was there was a sales agent only doing sales there and he didn't trust in the services that were being provided in the community. So he One of his friends, daughters was a landlord of mine and had given good feedback and He'd known somebody else who had dealt with me and, like had a positive interaction as well. So he was the culprit. He had started, like you know, just from what he'd heard and what he'd seen, started recommending me, and so I this name kept coming up over and over. So I ended up bringing him one day and said Are you in town, like I'd really love to actually meet you and you know so I've grown out there to about 15 to 20 properties super, super quickly and I just think in the early days like that took me years within Gunnar to get to get to 20. So you know, absolutely consider areas you maybe not have considered because there might be, like you know, growth happening there that you don't know about and for it missed a great opportunity.

Speaker 1: 46:56

So yeah, and that's exactly I think we'll finish with and I've written down a book for opportunity and be flexible, because the yeah, in your mind you might want to be doing this area, but guess what if your client and you were attracting a certain other area. I think you know what. I personally would go see where this is going to take us, and I think that that is a good thing for people to to keep in mind for sure and I I hope that people listening can sort of see that real truth, raw side of things From you and I about the way business is like.

Speaker 1: 47:39

And I think both of us like both socially have you know nice Presences and you know they can see all the good stuff as well, but you know what it's. It's pretty behind the scenes. It's been pretty simple trying things is not being perfect and I guess people are too scared to do things until they think it's perfect. And I think you and I are a good example particularly yourself. You're a good example of it. It was never perfect, but you've made it perfect and and I think it.

Speaker 1: 48:11

Yeah, I think it is definitely. People just need to see the behind the scenes and it's not a conversation. You can actually go out and ask people, but hopefully you're listening to it and you'll be happy that you've listened to that side of things. And Big thing for me is if you, like I said at the start, if you have been having a little tiny inkling that you Might want to start your business, where you might consider in the future, go at least do your research, get that course with that license done, and it's never, ever gonna be wasted, even if you never use it absolutely, and that is our chance. I mean, I know that you are very open to chatter people. If anyone wants to read it out, please, please get in touch with yourself or me. The Mentoring program that I've got is time sensitive, so obviously, today we're recording, it's August 2023, so, depending on when you're listening to this podcast, it may not be available, but just know that that you know us too. I'm both very open to helping people that are struggling a little bit, and, and if we can't help you, there's definitely people we can refer you to as well that could also Help you with that motivation that you might need.

Speaker 1: 49:28

Katie, it's a pleasure. It's so lovely to see you again. We should do it more often. Absolutely, and I will speak to you soon. Have a good day, you too.