What if you could reimagine your business strategy, incentivize customer service, and automate or outsource tasks to virtual assistants? Our guest, Rebecca Halton, CEO of LJ Hooker City Residential, took us on a remarkable journey of her two-decade-long experience in running a property management business and how she successfully restructured her business to achieve just that. In our enlightening conversation, Rebecca unfolded the strategies she deployed to increase efficiency, the changes she introduced to the reward structure and the areas where technology and virtual assistants played an integral role.
Finding the right people for the right positions is an art in itself. Rebecca and I not only navigated this tricky terrain but also delved into the essence of fostering a growth mindset in business. We dove deep into the results of Rebecca's insightful survey on property managers and business owners. It's a poignant look at their pain points, the lack of opportunities for growth, and the need for a management style that empowers teams and mitigates stress. It's all about creating an environment where your team can truly thrive.
Staying ahead of the competition - it's a phrase we hear often, but what does it really entail? In our final segment with Rebecca, we tackled just this. Strategies for new products, maintaining a growth mindset, and the benefits of attending conferences and seminars for gaining fresh insights, Rebecca has done it all. We also delve into the challenges of finding the right people for the right positions and the crucial role of communication in fostering a positive workplace environment. Tune in to learn more about Rebecca's journey, and how her experiences can help steer your business in the right direction.
The PIP Advantage for Landlord Insurance
Up to $70,000 contents cover included in our landlords policies
14 months cover for just 12 months premium in your first year
Further discounts when you have three or more properties insured through PIP
24/7 Australia-wide claims service
Online Real Estate Agent Portal for easy access and management
Visit their website
Keep your property managers doing what they love and outsource the things they don’t to a company that thrives on positive feedback and guarantees a premium personalised service
www.propertyassistwa.com.au
This weeks sponsor is On Tap Plumbing & Gas - 24/7 Plumbing servicing all of Perth from Mandurah to Two Rocks.
www.ontapplumbinggas.com.au
6206 6888
What if you could reimagine your business strategy, incentivize customer service, and automate or outsource tasks to virtual assistants? Our guest, Rebecca Halton, CEO of LJ Hooker City Residential, took us on a remarkable journey of her two-decade-long experience in running a property management business and how she successfully restructured her business to achieve just that. In our enlightening conversation, Rebecca unfolded the strategies she deployed to increase efficiency, the changes she introduced to the reward structure and the areas where technology and virtual assistants played an integral role.
Finding the right people for the right positions is an art in itself. Rebecca and I not only navigated this tricky terrain but also delved into the essence of fostering a growth mindset in business. We dove deep into the results of Rebecca's insightful survey on property managers and business owners. It's a poignant look at their pain points, the lack of opportunities for growth, and the need for a management style that empowers teams and mitigates stress. It's all about creating an environment where your team can truly thrive.
Staying ahead of the competition - it's a phrase we hear often, but what does it really entail? In our final segment with Rebecca, we tackled just this. Strategies for new products, maintaining a growth mindset, and the benefits of attending conferences and seminars for gaining fresh insights, Rebecca has done it all. We also delve into the challenges of finding the right people for the right positions and the crucial role of communication in fostering a positive workplace environment. Tune in to learn more about Rebecca's journey, and how her experiences can help steer your business in the right direction.
The PIP Advantage for Landlord Insurance
Up to $70,000 contents cover included in our landlords policies
14 months cover for just 12 months premium in your first year
Further discounts when you have three or more properties insured through PIP
24/7 Australia-wide claims service
Online Real Estate Agent Portal for easy access and management
Visit their website
Keep your property managers doing what they love and outsource the things they don’t to a company that thrives on positive feedback and guarantees a premium personalised service
www.propertyassistwa.com.au
This weeks sponsor is On Tap Plumbing & Gas - 24/7 Plumbing servicing all of Perth from Mandurah to Two Rocks.
www.ontapplumbinggas.com.au
6206 6888
Welcome to the PM Collective, a dynamic hub designed to empower business owners, property managers and BDMs to excel in their careers Through access to intimate conversations, cutting edge of video training, mental health support and unparalleled motivation. Our community is the ultimate destination for individuals seeking to elevate their professional lives to new heights. So sit back, relax and enjoy our next conversation on our weekly podcast, the Art of Property Management. Today, I am super excited to have someone who I would now call a friend, Rebecca Holton, in as a guest. Beck, thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2:No worries, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to let you intro yourself, and then we're going to get into today's topic, which is staying ahead, and always being one step ahead is something that I always try to practice, and I know that you do too. So before we get into that, can you please do a real quick, brief intro about yourself and your agencies that you run?
Speaker 2:Yep. So Rebecca Holton, CEO of LJ Hooker City Residential in East Perth, and we've just taken on another office in New York High. We've got around 2000 properties under management, got quite a big sales team as well and, yeah, we don't have any heads of department, so it's all just run very I don't even know what the word would be Moorthly. Yeah, I don't know what the word would be Moorthly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know, it's just so it is. It's a great business, so we've run it really efficiently. And yeah, so I've been doing it for 21 years, got a business partner who's 75, been around for 40 years and he's amazing it's probably one of the most innovative 75 year olds going around. But yeah, so we're just mid just mid office renovations, so my 42 staff members have been rehomed all over Perth at the moment, whether it's in a temporary office or our Yocan office or working from home. So we're very fluid.
Speaker 1:How long is that going to be for?
Speaker 2:So the builder thinks, all going to plan which it never does eight weeks will be in. So we've been out three weeks. But you know we are waiting on suppliers and it's, yeah, there's quite a big lead time on some things in, you know, desks and because everything's very new. So if it all goes to plan, mid September, late September, no, probably late September will be in.
Speaker 1:Nice, excellent. Now you did your office start from zero, or when you first started your business. What did that look like? How many properties.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when I first came into the business in 2010, I moved over from over East and I'd known Frank for some time, so I was actually coming in to run his sales business, but the property management business at the time was at 400. And then over time, I sort of moved into the licensee role and then into the CEO of the company, because Frank's also got an office in Mandra and then I became a partner in the business or 2017, I think it was 18, so five or six years ago now and that's when I looked at the whole business and, yeah, we had a head of department in there who'd done a really good job up to that point, but probably future proofing the business. She wasn't the right person for that. She was a bit of an old school property manager, sort of managing down instead of letting the people grow up, and I certainly had never managed a property.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people know the story. I've never been a property manager, but I understood what the business was and what it needed, so then I stepped into that role. We were at about 800 properties under management. So then we've grown organically and we've done some acquisitions probably more so in the last 12 months acquisition wise. We're just shy of 2,000 properties, yeah.
Speaker 1:And at what point did you or have you ever had to change your property management structure, like with how the properties were managed? Did you just start at the start with the structure you currently have, or at what point did that change?
Speaker 2:No, so when I took over it was very much end to end. It was end to end. We had eight or nine property managers looking after eight or nine hundred doing end to end. And then we changed over to property me, which was a big driver of being able to change our structure. So we went from rest, we went cloud based and everything was that's. When I mapped out the whole business and I sort of thought that my business one said there was a better way to do it, but my property management level of experience didn't really. I couldn't really match the two up. So I kind of just sat in and listened and looked around and spoke to a lot of business owners and head of departments around what it could look like. And then I worked out very quickly that the property managers were stressed at 100, 120 properties back then because they were doing everything.
Speaker 1:And that was the pain point for you to start thinking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. It just said look, when I took it over, there was a lot of complaints. We were losing lots of properties. Like I was sort of doing the figures on the business and just getting the figures from the head of department and we were losing like 15 to 20 properties a month and I was like what is going on? So then the first thing I did was change the reward structure where the property managers only got their bonuses based on being at an 80% or higher net promoter score. So that really encouraged the customer service.
Speaker 2:And then, once we got that right, then I looked at well, what tasks can we outsource and what can we make more efficient and smoother? So that was a big and that was done in consultation with the team. We sort of mapped out well, what are the jobs you like, or the jobs you don't like or the jobs that are repetitive? What could we automate? What could virtual assistants do? We started exploring that back then and then is it a virtual assistant or is it software? And then we just really mapped it all out, looked at all the softwares out there and this was like it really.
Speaker 2:I had to really switch my brain from being a salesperson type mentality to systems and processes, which is not my, naturally, not my, not my strength. But I think now you know I've always said if there's an issue, look at the system and the process first and then, if that's broken, fix it. If not, maybe it is the person. But when we sort of looked at all that and then we bought in the VA's and we outsourced that and then that freed up the capacity for the team, and then they started to think, oh okay, well, you're not replacing me, you're actually helping me have better life and you know work balance. So they were way more open to bringing in AI and and that sort of thing Once they'd worked with the virtual assistants and realized that we're not just trying to replace them, we're actually giving them more capacity to look after more properties but have more time and less stress.
Speaker 1:So the first step was the VA and then the next step. Well, I guess that made them more comfortable into the next step, which was the in-house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, no, it's probably. Yeah, sorry, probably the in-house inspection team. Well, we know we were outsourcing inspections and then as you get bigger and you get scale, you've got to know your numbers right, Like we're talking about that just before. So I just worked out well, if we're paying this much on outsourcing for inspections, how many full-time employees could I get for that and would it look better? Just the communication within the office around those inspections and things, and it did it changed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because this was a question that was asked to me not long ago and that was at what point do you go from outsourced inspections to bringing it in-house? And it's not necessarily just the cost that's a factor, it's also the fact you've got an extra team member, how it works, another desk and things like that. So it has to be. I mean, I'm just assuming it'd have to be quite, not quite a bit more, but a bit more than the actual cost replacement as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you just weighed up. So I looked at you know you can do rough numbers. You look at how much you pay to outsource, you know, to a third party. And then you were how many actual routine inspections, pcrs and finals your business does and how much would that cost you to outsource. And then, is that a full-time person? Is that enough? And you can really work it out on any scale. You might just get a part-time person in to do it when you're a bit smaller.
Speaker 2:But definitely that freed up.
Speaker 2:And it also gave me and we're talking about, you know, future proofing and staying ahead it gave me a training ground to bring people in, you know, to start off doing routine inspections and learn that side of it and learn it well and do it well and then learn the PCRs, learn the finals and then start looking into property management, because I think it just it gives everyone a really good basic knowledge of what we do, being out there doing inspections and PCRs and things.
Speaker 2:So that was probably. Another benefit for us is I could bring in a junior not a junior, but someone on not, you know, not a huge salary. Bring them in, chain them up and give them a bit of a career path into property management. So you know that's been a saviour in the last two years as the talent pools dried up and that has allowed me. Not that we don't lose property managers that often, but you know we've lost maybe one in the last two years and I had someone sitting there ready just to jump in and so it's not a stressful time for me. Yeah, which you know. I know it is out there in the marketplace at the moment.
Speaker 1:Do you feel that, like I know, that you're really happy with the structure that you guys have got at the moment. It's really working well for you guys. Do you think that there could be another, like like you've already? You know, no me, how do I word this level. Is there another level, like I don't know?
Speaker 2:I do. I think so. I think, you know, as consumers expectations change and as employers expectations change and as my expectations change, I think you have to be open that there is something better and different out there, and and and, like you said, at the moment we the pain points we have aren't really big enough to look for that. But I can definitely see, you know. You know I often look at well, what is our business to spark in 12 months and and what are we doing today to get to that? Because if you're in a growth mindset, that's what you should be thinking all the time. If you're not in growth mode, well you know why would you change it? But if you're looking at adding on, you know another portfolio, or you want to acquire or you want to do some organic growth, well, you've. There's no point growing if you're losing out the other end and your staff are unhappy. But so I think, yeah, I think that definitely is what it looks like.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I've got a couple of ideas in my head around. You know some new things we could do, but it's all all. Everything we do is is it increasing the customers experience and is it increasing the team's experience? If it's a yes to both of them, that's 100 percent. All in, let's go. But if it's what the customers are calling for, but it puts too much pressure on the team, well then we look for. Well, is that a software that would do that, or is that an outsourced thing? Because it's probably just balancing where that is, because what the customers want and what the team want to do sometimes are completely different.
Speaker 1:You mentioned that if your office isn't in the growth mindset, and the person that came to mind is what sort of office wouldn't be in a growth mindset? Like what other offices out there that go? I don't want to grow anymore.
Speaker 2:I think there are. Like, I think, in terms of if some business owners and I certainly was one of these when I first got in that poor property management was the poor cousin and it was like a lot of headaches. But when I look back at that and reflect on it it was because it was run poorly and the staff were stressed and it was awful Like, and you've got to put the right people in the right positions. And so I think there and I think I spoke to you a little bit about it offline, but I think Frank and I often talking about the sales markets really coming like it's drying up, there's no listings, there's no sales.
Speaker 2:So businesses who are more reliant on that sales income and property management has always just been a little bit of a bonus. Now we're going to look at it and go, well, that's not going to cover the cost of my business. It becomes a big burden. So they might flip into growth mode, hopefully really quickly, and thrive through it. Or they might just say, look, I can't go through another proof over time and that is the decision they'll have to make pretty quickly, I think. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I did that recent survey where we surveyed property managers and business owners and there was a couple of things that were super interesting from both sides and one of them was a couple of hot things that came in from property managers and their pain points was the opportunity to grow and develop in their role, and there was a high percentage that did say that there wasn't actually any room for them to grow.
Speaker 1:So that was quite good of you to touch on that, because I think you're right. Having that those layers does it keeps it exciting for a team member as well and it gives them those opportunities where quite often you know, we put them in just a maybe an end-to-end property management position and there isn't always a lot of opportunity. I mean, I think you can definitely create. So for my office, which is run differently to you, we portfolio run and we like that option, my team like that option. But I have definitely had those conversations with them with regards to what their careers look like and they are ultimately wanting to create, I guess, a mini business which, funny enough, is sort of a little bit like still creating layers. Actually now I'm saying that out loud. It is creating layers because I've got a team member who wants to manage more. But you know, have an assistant or have a VA and create that, which is exactly what you're doing, but in a different way.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And look, I think you know I can't wait to see all your information you gathered from your survey. But when I talk to my team, I feel like people are kind of like, if I look at the team, there's people who want to grow in their career and be in like a management position and, look, our business is probably not for them because I don't. I just believe we're all on the same field and we all just step to what we know, sticking our lines, and do it really well and celebrate it together. So you know, I don't feel like I'll ever have a head of department because my team are empowered to make those decisions, each and every one of them.
Speaker 2:But then there's, there's people who you know, there's always people in the workplace who look for new opportunities and really want to implement new systems and processes and I think they're the people that you sort of say, like I probably more champion people you know, like I might say to you know, like the girl who's championing our MePay in putting MePay through the business, she's not in property management, she's, she's in, she's in an administration role.
Speaker 2:But if you could see she was itching for a project. So I was like great, you can do that. You can deal with all the tenants on board everybody, and she's thriving in that. So you've just got to look for what is it that get to people going and how can I support that for them. And you know, some property managers just wanna come and do their job and leave, and that's fine as well, because they do it really well. But I think you've just gotta know exactly what your people want, who they are, what drives them and how can we help them have the balance and not be stressed. You don't wanna be going home thinking about everything you haven't done, or it's just. I don't think it's healthy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it just highlights the importance of that individual management style as well. And I think a lot of business owners they try to put a blanket style over everybody and that does not work. I mean, you would know, with that many people like it would be impossible, I would imagine.
Speaker 2:No, you can't, and that's the thing I said it. My constant message to the team is whatever I have spoken to someone about, whether it's their flexibility in the workplace or they wanna do something a little bit different, that's between them and I and it's no one else's business. Because if you want that flexibility, you have to be okay that everyone else has it. So, just trying to get the environment around if someone comes in at 9.30, you don't know the conversation they've had with me and it's none of your business, like it isn't. So I say to everyone you can have all the flexibility in the world. Just one person winches about it, about someone else getting it, and then it's done. But I'm pretty stern on that rule because I want the flexibility and I want them to have it, but I don't want anyone to get at it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I don't have anything about it. That's pretty much what I'm saying. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Another thing that came out of the survey which surprised me, because I probably personally brush over it a lot as well but was the property managers talking about their environment that they're in and there was a lot of complaints with their office environment. And in my mind, as soon as I was reading these comments, I thought to myself gosh, what a shame, because that is such easy things to fix. So there would be people. There was complaints of air conditioning, heating, old kitchens, open plan private offices like just real, in my mind, cosmetic things.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I thought to myself gosh, if you have a really nice, open, transparent team, surely these things can be easily resolved in and on and you don't have to be having your team whinging about these things. My gosh, there's bigger things to whinge about, I know, I know, yeah, and I guess that whole one step ahead and what I wanted to chat to you about was that you have recently doing a renovation, a big renovation, in your office, and I think that is super amazing, but not many people do it. I mean, I probably need to do a big overhaul in my office as well, but what that's to me is staying one step ahead and keeping things exciting for the team and the office and the brand. What, how long has it been in the pipeline and what made you make the decision to do it?
Speaker 2:So, honestly, it's probably been in the pipeline for two or three or probably three years pre-COVID we started to talk about it and in hindsight we should have done a drink if everyone wasn't there.
Speaker 2:But you know, it's a really what we're doing is very expensive because it's a full gut out. And so Frank and I started talking about it and we're like, well, we need to upgrade something, definitely. And then, and then he sort of said, well, you know, if we're gonna do these, we should just look at doing the whole thing. And then I started to get some quotes into a full one and we were like, oh, okay, maybe we won't do that. And then it just, and then we sat down and actually said, well, we don't want to renovate it just for it to be the same. Like we have to renovate it to improve not only the environment but our capacity as a business as well.
Speaker 2:So we had 35 seats in the office as it was. We already had 42 people. Like there was already an issue, there was lots of wasted space and we. So we sat down and said, okay, well, if we're spending this type of money, we want it to last 20 years at least. You know, we might have to change a couple of things along the way, but and what's our business gonna look like in 20 years? So yeah, it was really hard to think about that. So we thought about five years, that's a lot of things.
Speaker 1:I hope Frank's retired in 20 years if he's already 75.
Speaker 2:You know him as well as I do, so he probably wait. The running joke is I'll retire before Frank.
Speaker 1:I probably will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but so yeah. So we were like, okay, well, and then we got some designers in and said well, realistically, how many spaces can we have? And you know, with the work from home and the flexibility we have, what does that look like? So we've, our new office will have 66 desks, of which 34 of them are permanent and whatever, 32 are hot desk style.
Speaker 1:And can I just remind everyone as well, for those that haven't seen Bex's office, it was perfectly fine as it was before. It was probably nicer than a lot of offices. It has a coffee machine at the front. It was lovely. That's, I guess, where I just I love the confidence and the innovation and the growth plan to go. You know what? Like this is the next step, because it's such a big investment for you guys and I don't think we realise how important this is going to be to the team, like to have.
Speaker 2:I think so. I think you know you can keep doing things the same way and get the same results. And you know there's nothing wrong with our business. It's a very good business and great, great people but at some point you've got to go. Well, what's next? And how does that look? And you know probably even bigger for Frank to say, at his age and his stage of his career, to agree and go ahead with it.
Speaker 2:But I think the change will. You know it'll be. It'll be the change we need to go to that next level. And it's very superficial and, like you said, very cosmetic. But the energy it's going to bring to the business, you know it's going to attract different clientele. It's, like you said, it's future proof now that we could go and acquire a business as big as ours and just plug it in and that's, you know, that's the mindset we want to have every day. Is that growth mindset, not just small growth, really big growth. And that environment will help us just keep that. A we've got to. You know that's a big cost that we've invested, so you want to see a return on that. But B, it's just that nice room. It's a little bit nicer to come into work every day and, you know, have the even better coffee machine and we've got sparkling water on tap and you know, it's just a couple of little things that we've made that will make it people really proud to come and work there.
Speaker 1:And they're super expensive for sparkling water taps because I've wanted to get one in my office and I'm being too tight to get one. They are.
Speaker 2:They are, but it's the one, non-negotiable that Frank wants, Funny enough. So I was like, yeah, we can do that. So yeah, and again it's. You know, we all know how we deal with people have changed. So it's more about an open environment that people want to come in and sit down and talk to us, but more so we want the team to walk in with their head held high and be really proud to work there, which they were. But I think they'll be extra proud now.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, when I'm saying that, um, it is a saying that says that if you stay the same, you might as well go backwards, like, and that's exactly what you're doing by keeping the same office environment, maybe the same.
Speaker 1:You know office structure and style, and I just think it's so inspirational for people to listen to yourself, who does have that successful business yet still is not naive to the fact that there you need to be one step ahead and you've got to be evolving with it.
Speaker 1:Because, from the results of the survey, one of the questions was you know about programs, for example, and you know what would you need to, you know, manage more properties? I think the question was and the anyway, the majority of the answers from business owners were we don't need any new programs in our office, like we don't need any new technology, and I thought to myself how close minded for people to actually think that because you and I have very low tech stacks, you know good businesses. Yeah, I'm still open to the fact that there is even another, better way, and I would always be open to knowing what's out there, and I think you don't know what you don't know. So I and I know that you, you're the first one to jump on any new demos, just to, just to simply know what's about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I'm probably guilty of not doing as much lately because we've got so much going on, but I just don't think you can have a closed mindset at all as a leader in a business, because that will filter down to your team. Having that closed mindset, and the minute that happens, I think it's a bit of business suicide. It's a bit like the old toys being done like that. So you know why. Why fix it if it's not broken, whereas I'm like let's fix it before it breaks or let's improve it before it breaks. You know the prevention is better than cure type style of running your business. But it also keeps it exciting for me.
Speaker 2:You know I get a bit bored, even at the sides around. I'm like what's next? I'm bored. You know great people around you doing everything. I don't. I'm not stuck on. You know I'm not dealing with any complaints. So you just got to I'm looking, probably more of a personal satisfaction what's new, what can we do? How's it different? And then I love speaking to people like yourself who sometimes you say things and I'm like that's incredible, like I never would have thought about that, and so I try and look for that in other industries as well. I look at what they're doing and go well, could we do that in our industry? And I've been going to a lot more out of industry conferences lately, like just different random stuff and Just sitting there going more, just open up your mind and think about what could we implement that works, yeah.
Speaker 1:I had the exact same conversation with someone the other day about how I'm loving going to non real estate industry training and Talking to non real estate people just to really see like, because at the end of the day I feel that business is business in any category. They are they all ultimately a sort of sort of run the same, you know, I mean, and they all have the same aim at the end of the Goal, at the end of the day, so they are all comparable and all different industries and trades and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's all just more. What can you do with your people? Like your people, are your business right and without them? I know I definitely. I've got some key people in the business that you know, especially over the last couple, probably four or five weeks, had some personal stuff going on that I had to step out of the business and and Literally had to step out the day they started knocking walls out in the office when I probably needed to be there the mics but Could confidently step out and know that some people would step up and just make the right decisions.
Speaker 1:And I actually didn't think about it and came back and you know Better than I when I was down again the way sometimes Exactly, and I think the last thing I just want to touch on is the fact that you are creating room to grow, but it's also the fact that you have and created space to have more growth, and I think that that's another thing that a lot of business owners don't Currently do. They wait till they need something and then they make the change. Where you have now created more space for, you know, I don't know another 20 people to allow for that growth, and I think you do have to have that, that that energy is space available and it will. It will happen. You know me as a have, even with new staff members. I have brought new staff members in before I've needed them, not when I've needed them, and that's a very easy way to Stay ahead constantly. So you do that, I think, quite well, and you do that with your staff as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I try to, definitely. I mean you've always got to balance your books, you know, and make sure you're not over staffed, because I think when things are going well, it's really easy to throw people at problems, right, and I think before COVID we were all a little bit guilty of it, where you know, like you, like you said before, someone might say, oh, I'm flat out and I don't have time. So as a business owner, you go, okay, well, what do you need? All right, let's get someone in to assist in that area. And that was generally the old-school mentality of fixing problems, especially with a lot of business owners being salespeople, obviously people at it, because I don't want the problem of property management, so you've got to really be careful.
Speaker 2:I always sort of say, okay, what's the problem? And first of all, is it something that our VA's or inspection officers can already take on, or is it or someone else can take on in the business? Can we kind of Restructure internally? And then, if you can't, okay, well, is it? Is it a software piece, like, isn't it an upgrade? Is it something else we could look at? And if all those things are a no, it's like, okay, well, if we get a new person in. What does that mean and how do we Grow that person like so?
Speaker 2:So yeah, we always try and say half a person ahead in each sort of area. So we might have one person who at the moment I've got a person who covers all the holidays for PM, so can sit and be a PM, but also I can do that for inspection. So if everyone's on board for the day, she will pick up inspections or just do whatever is needed Sort of a floating role and she's the person who'll be the next to take on a portfolio in the growth plan. But again, they're really hard people to help because they really want a portfolio and if you take too long to give them on They'll look elsewhere. But they're really talented people who've got all the skills. So you've got to really make sure you're communicating all the time with them.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I do, I really do, and even in you know, our admin team with the sales are always trying to have an extra half a person, especially with a lot of women, you never know who's gonna fall pregnant or there's so much going on. But yeah, it is like I understand we're a bigger business in the real estate space, so when you've got scale, it's easier to stay ahead in terms of that stuff. But there's so many opportunities out there with traineeships, you know, return from sort of, you know mums who want to return to work, but not full-time. Just gonna be a bit open to what that looks like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, even when I was at you know, maybe 300 properties, I was always trying to stay half a person ahead. So I think that that's actually Something that even the smaller portfolios should be able to always, always have. Like, I've got at the moment the trainees and they're my extra people. So they're people that I don't actually really need as such to run the business, but they definitely helpful and so they're actually my Extra person or my extra head. That is a bit of a bonus, bonus person.
Speaker 1:The other thing that I that you mentioned and I think this is so relevant to business owners is that you talked about this. You know, if there's a problem, you just add something, you add an outsource or add a program in to fix it. But if you start doing that, that's when Subscriptions and memberships and programs become expenses and not investments. So if you start doing that so one of the other questions on the survey from employers were then complaining about you know the cost of programs and how that is. You know things are too expensive to bring into their business, but I don't think they're implementing them right, because I think there has to be a Benefit for the consumer with the program.
Speaker 1:I think there needs to be a benefit for the property manager, but then it also has to, you know, work out price wise. But, if you like, whenever lately when I've taken on any programs, I there's definitely been a benefit for the property manager and for the consumer. But I have been able to also take away another program. This is when I had more programs, have been able to take away. Take away something and I don't. I was surprised to see that people were complaining about the cost of technology, when I don't think that technology is actually expensive if you look at it as an investment and increase the capacity of your Property managers or increase the service ability for the client.
Speaker 2:No, I agree, you have to look at what it can take away and then, if you're taking away that, what can you add in? So Can they look after more properties or do you want to add another customer service level which will get you more repeat referral business? You really do need to look at all of those things. I think the key to growing and, you know, having good growth and and sustainable growth is getting your team on board with everything. That's the key. Like as a leader in the business, you can make the decisions, but you can't make everyone implement everything. You need to make sure you're auditing your P&L every six months. Then you've got to really know. You've got to speak to your team and you might put something in and they hate it, but they might be too scared to tell you that they hate it. There's so many layers to that that you just have to be really open. I think with your communication and be okay with that Didn't work. Let's try something new. Or I often don't say investing heavily in this software If you don't like it, if you're not using it, if it's not doing what we want it to do, you've got to tell me and it's not because I'll be upset that you don't like it. It's because I'll look for other options.
Speaker 2:I remember a couple of years ago I tried to. I can't even remember what I was. I was trying to implement a new software and I thought everyone was using it and was going well because no one was complaining. But not being a property manager and doing it, I just worked out that they weren't using it at all and still doing it the old way, and I was really annoyed. I was so mad. And then I had to really sit back and reflect on where it all went wrong and I sort of asked the question well, why didn't anyone tell me? And they said you were so passionate about it, we didn't want to let you down, so we just didn't use it.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh, that's kind of letting me down in a different way. But yeah, so you just got to work out how that works and just check in. I think just check. You don't have to be on it all the time. Just check in with everyone and in your. You know we don't really have regular meetings Well, I'm not great at that anymore but every couple of weeks just to check in like, how are we going? Let's look at these three things. Can we do anything better? Is it working? Is there any pain points? And then just move on to the next three.
Speaker 1:Well, that is hopefully insightful for business owners, regardless of your size, to make sure you are always thinking one step ahead, Definitely considering your office environment, even if you actually think that it's actually pretty good, I would definitely encourage some feedback from the team just to see you know what could be better. Is there something that they would like? I mean, it might be a sparkly water tap.
Speaker 1:It might, you know, I don't think people don't underestimate how little it could be and how easy it could be to fix Like that, I guess, is my main thing, because and how much that could definitely improve the productivity and the culture within your office.
Speaker 2:And then, if you just ask would you know that would be nice?
Speaker 1:Absolutely and again it's just that staying one step ahead there. Second thing staying one step ahead is definitely with the technology and and monitoring all of that. And you know, my final thing to leave people with is be open to demos. Like and I've always like my statement I always disclose as soon as I have a demo, because I hate the whole sales vibe If I always say, listen, this product might not be for me, but I like to know about these products so that in six months time or 12 months time when I've got a pain point, I know what's available should I need you and that sort of stops that whole salesy pitch If that's what you want to.
Speaker 2:We don't have time to be sold.
Speaker 1:No, no. It's like just tell me how much. What's going to me. Like, give me the basics, and they all don't always like to save the price to the end. And it's like, oh my God, it's so drawn out.
Speaker 2:And I actually said, I said to you know, one of my bettie and say the day I'm like you know what, tell them your fees upfront and then show them why we charge this, Because otherwise they're sitting there going how much is it, how much is it, how much is it, how much is it? Not listening to what you're saying? Whereas then if you tell them the fees and then they're actually listening to, go well, am I going to get value for those fees? And so, yeah, it's a very old school sales tip, keeping the price to the end.
Speaker 1:And I love they say that because, as well like I, think what you'll find is that if you keep the price to the end, they're still sitting there thinking about the price and not actually listening to the value that you're receiving Just wasted your whole celebration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, whereas you say it at the front, show them how you will add, you know, show the value you get for that They'll. I reckon they'll sign a lot quicker than we feel.
Speaker 1:And that that will finish off our, you know, staying. Staying in front is that by just by listening to podcasts and sing to the way people do different things is again a way of staying one step ahead, because I know with the fee schedules I always just email them off. If anyone asks, I email them.
Speaker 1:I actually don't try and get that that in-person appointment and a lot of people still try to get that in-person appointment and I don't, because I actually find that it's easy to do it my way and I don't think there's a difference. But and I'm not saying that my way is right but I'm definitely saying be open to listening what everyone else is doing and what's working and what's not working, so that you can stay a step ahead of what I think also just be out of your fees.
Speaker 2:Hold your fees, be confident with them. And if someone shopping for the lowest fee, well, you're not their agent and so why waste an hour out there? You try to sell to them, oh yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 1:Waste of your time. Yeah yeah, excellent. Well, thanks so much. I always love having a chat to you and I hope that that definitely gives people some things to consider within their office and within their team when it comes to staying a step ahead. And I know Beck is an open book. So feel free to reach out to Beck or myself if you ever want to have a chat about sort of structures or how to even put plans in place or new, new products in place with your team. If you're finding that it's hard to get some people on board, I'm sure you would be an expert with that. I'm not an expert. Thanks, jake, lovely chatting, see y'all.