.jpg)
PM Collective - The ART of property management
The ART of property management with Ashleigh Goodchild is a leading platform supporting collaboration not competition through an online community and events throughout the year with one purpose: to create happier property managers. She creates connections for property managers looking to create momentum in their careers and personal life. Join Ashleigh and her guests as they discuss challenges, struggles, mental health, mindset and give advice to property managers and anyone in the industry. To get the support in your property management career, join our PM Collective Facebook and Instagram community.
PM Collective - The ART of property management
The most effective strategies for empowering business development managers in property management.
In this podcast episode, Ash welcomes RISE with Sarah Cincotta as her guest. Sarah shares her background in the real estate industry and her work in supporting and empowering business development managers (BDMs) in property management.
They discuss the challenges and issues affecting the industry, including reducing fees, not charging for certain services, and the negative effects of comparison.
They also touch on the importance of transparency, tracking commission payments, and the role of social media in marketing.
They conclude by discussing the need for property managers to charge for valuable services and the importance of showing their worth.
RISE with Sarah Cincotta
PM COLLECTIVE - GUIDE AND SHAPE AN ENJOYABLE FUTURE
We believe in making industry-leading education and support accessible to everyone. Our community is packed with free resources, expert insights, and innovative training designed to help business owners, property managers, and BDMs thrive.
This podcast is kindly sponsored by The Efficiency Co.
We are a dedicated consultancy, training, and support partner for innovative real estate organisations.
Specialising in agency operations, team development and technology integration, we provide the insight, support, and training to maximise your performance.
Our toolbox includes 1:1 Coaching for industry pros, 1:1 Personal Strategy Sessions, Team Engagement Workshops and Bespoke Agency Consultation
Welcome to the PM Collective, a dynamic hub designed to empower business owners, property managers and BDMs to excel in their careers Through access to intimate conversations, cutting edge of video training, mental health support and unparalleled motivation. Our community is the ultimate destination for individuals seeking to elevate their professional lives to new heights. So sit back, relax and enjoy our next conversation on our weekly podcast, the Art of Property Management. Today, I am super excited to have Sarah Sincotta from Rise joining us as our guest for the podcast.
Speaker 1:Sarah thank you, thanks, ash so good to be here, lovely to see you again and it's lovely to see what you are doing all the BDMs around Australia. So let us do a little intro with you, if you can, let everyone know a bit of your background and what you're doing now and how you're helping the industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a bit of a background. I've been in the real estate industry now for 10 years. I started as an assistant property manager, went into property management and then did business development for four and a half years. A year and a half ago, while I was still working as a business development manager, I was a way to give back to the community, so I did launch my business Rise with Sarah Sincotta, and now it's been five months that I've gone full time into my business, where I am bringing together a community of business development managers working within property management businesses so they can achieve their goals, feel fulfilled and just realign themselves with them themselves and the businesses that they work for.
Speaker 1:And are you finding that the BDMs you're working with at the moment are they BDMs that are either new into the industry, or are they starting portfolios from scratch or they experience? What sort of BDMs are approaching you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, good question, ash, because there's a variety. It's quite diverse. So I'm seeing new BDMs coming to the industry, which is great, and then I'm also seeing BDMs that have been in the industry 15, even 20, 25 years that are just wanting to upskill and really assure themselves that they're on the right track and they're keeping up to date with all of the new things and the wonderful things that are happening in our industry at the moment. So it is quite a range of people that I'm seeing that and it's great that people are investing in themselves and so that they can get the success that they want, not just for themselves, but for the businesses they work for as well.
Speaker 1:And I don't think it matters whether you are bringing in 10 properties per month or 30 properties per month. There's always room to grow. Every single person, no matter their experience, has room to improve and even the experience. I can see how that would be quite a beneficial program with you, because the thing that I've identified is that BDMs within their businesses are actually quite isolated with their role because the majority of officers only have one BDM and so they are on their own. They sort of always feel like they don't fit into the property management but they don't fit into the sales and it's such an isolated role. So to have something like yourself or somebody like yourself where they can absorb themselves into a community of other BDMs is really important, because property managers have each other but BDMs don't have that community as much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I think BDMs can be the lost cousin and they are definitely the glue between property management and the sales team. But also there's a lot of property management only businesses coming up and, yes, typically there's just one BDM and they don't have the door to loan. There is a lot of support out there and the biggest thing for me is just to give them their support and strategies and just to give back to them and make them feel a part of a community across Australia. So it's really amazing, wonderful.
Speaker 1:Now you did a recent post that I really, really liked and I think it's going to be a really good topic today. You spoke about three things that we're doing that is affecting the industry and hurting the industry, so I wanted to talk to you a little bit more about them today. So there, in summary we had the first one was reducing fees. The second one was not charging for services that we should be charging for. And the third one I'm sorry, yeah, the third one was the comparing ourselves. So we're going to cover those topics today, which I think are super interesting, but also really important as a refresher to those in the industry to understand the impact they are having long term for their career and position, as well as BDM. So let's kick it off with the first one. We just talked about fees. First of all, dropping our fees. Now, topic Ash, the hot topic.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to say Depple's advocate, it came, and I'm not saying that I have this opinion at all. I'm just going to share a passing thought that I have. We have the fee schedules that we charge, and they're pretty much been unchanged for 20 years in general, but I do seem to want to take into account that every single office has different expenses. So there are going to be offices that work from home and there's offices that rent a beautiful big office space. So because offices and expenses do differ, part of me wants to say that sometimes the fees will also be different, because if they are working from home or their business is run from home, they don't need to charge as much. So they could potentially still be earning the same profit within their businesses by charging less than a four feet office. So I'm really contradicted with that opinion and the reason why sometimes it's okay to charge less, but then I get the whole big picture as well. So I mean, share your thoughts with me on it.
Speaker 2:No, I completely agree, and I definitely think there are two sides. What I am seeing, hearing and the conversations that I am having, though, is from other property managers or business, about managers that are working in specific areas, and they are getting undercutted by other agencies reducing fees, and I'm not talking about you know, boutique agencies or you know people that are working from home. I'm talking about well-known brands, established businesses in their local areas that are reducing fees, and it just looks bad for the industry. So that's what I was referring to when I said about you know, cutting fees. The other thing that I'm having conversations with people about is that a lot of business owners haven't actually identified their break-even costs, or they haven't even looked at their profit and loss, or they don't know how much their property management department should be making, so they're just coming up with their own fees themselves, hoping for the best, and they're looking for quantity over quality, so that's the other side, through that price that I put up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I guess that yeah. So that would be suggesting that what's hurting the industry is people that are undercutting their fees because they feel that they need to to get the business and, as a result, that reduced fee is below the cost to manage the property. So obviously that's hurting the business and it's because their intention is just to have the numbers that are managed, as opposed to what their revenue is. And I mean, I don't need to spell it out for people there's a big difference with managing 500 properties at 500 week or 500 properties at $1,000 per week. So we know that. I just think as an industry, like even I do, naturally people say how many properties do you manage? How many properties do you manage? You know each property manager manages 150 or whatever it is. Yeah, we focus on that. It's not like a property manager says oh yeah, I managed $300,000 a month, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yes, actually, I do know one property manager. She is in Vic and she actually does share that on her social media and I thought you go girl, because she's actually changing the awareness to investors. And I think that's what it's about as well. Like, as a collective and you know each individual person in the industry we can all make a difference together and that's what I'm wanting to see more. It's like okay, if we're going to be realizing the revenue that we need to support our businesses and we're not so much listening to just the numbers and you know we need to list 10 properties a month, but okay, well, what is the revenue behind that, why we need to list 10 properties a month? What are the goals for the business? You know, how can we make what we need to make?
Speaker 2:To reinvest in the business, to be able to provide more training and support to, you know, the property management team, or to attend more events and to work more together, or to implement more systems and technologies. Like there are all things that we need to be aware of and I think what I am loving, those I am seeing more directors and business owners are having those conversations with their team transparency around that so they actually understand why they are charging those fees in the first place. It's not just Ash, go list 10 properties and we want a minimum, you know 5% including GST. It's like why do we want you to list 10 properties at 5% including GST? What does that mean to the business? What does that mean for you? What does that mean for the team?
Speaker 1:And then what risk if you are a BDM listening to this and you do reduce the fees because you have permission to number one from your business owner and number two, you're getting your commission for each property that comes through. What risk are they making by doing that long?
Speaker 2:term. Yeah Well, financially is one. But also, then you just really, are you really focusing on the quality of the clients that are coming in or are you just chasing again that number just to drive up the growth of the business and your commission? Because the long term success is going to be from the quality of the clients, because not every client is a good client, right, and I think I saw recently you spoke about that through Ash and also financially for a business, if you drop your fee, even 0.5% or 1%, then that is a massive loss in terms of asset value as well to the business, because there's different components they need to be generating revenue so they can one pay their staff to make sure the business continues to run, but also because of the asset value that property brings in to overall. So it's long term for a business. We shouldn't be focusing on just now. It should always be the long term benefits for the people and for the business for the long run. So generally.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know there's lots of different ways that BDMs can get paid with their commission structures. So I personally, my team, have a set amount for property. Another way that I've seen and I don't know if you've also seen like different way or you would have definitely seen different ways people charge it, but is doing that percentage on the annual income. So I've seen that worked out before and I would have no idea what even the percentage would be, but that could be something that would be maybe a good way of paying a BDM is based on that annual income. So then, that's reflective of making sure that revenue is there for the business and what is also reflective over what fees you are charging that client as well, like, is that something that you see a lot of or not really?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, look, I know that that wasn't one of the things we're initially going to cover, but it's definitely a question that I get asked and approached about a lot, ash.
Speaker 2:So when it comes to salary and commission and, look, I think it depends like every office is different. Every BDM is going to be different. What I am loving seeing, though, is, yes, there is more incentives now based on the overall revenue for the year for BDM. So it's common that a BDM will get paid their base salary and then they'll be incentivized, typically by their listing numbers. But when you start changing that framework and that mindset around just the numbers to then the actual revenue, it just changes the bar completely, and I've actually was lucky enough to work in a business that did do this, and it was a game changer, because you just didn't focus on the numbers. Then, ash, you knew what you were working towards, and sometimes it meant, hey, you didn't have to list as many properties because you actually bought in properties that were a higher rent, you got better fees and, overall, always better income revenue producing for the company.
Speaker 1:And I think that's the point, like if we're going to start making better decisions to improve the industry, it needs to come back from those initial discussions. So if you are and I'm just now, as I speak, having that realization because I paid her property, my mentality is the numbers. And I changed that mentality and said you know what, I'm going to start paying the BDM as a commission of that annual amount, I'm naturally going to then record and monitor that side of things and I'm going to forget about what the number, the actual physical numbers of listings are, because I'm not tracking it that way. So it comes back to the basics of the very, very start, of how you track it, to how you reward it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think what you just mentioned as well about tracking really important, I think and again, going back to that, transparency especially if you either have a BDM in there at the moment or you're looking to hire a BDM is just having a tool that you can have full transparency to see.
Speaker 2:Yes, you're still looking at the numbers how many BDMs are bringing, but what that property that they listed actually meant for the business in terms of the revenue or the asset value, whatever which way they want to look at.
Speaker 2:But it's also really good to just measure and say, okay, well, where does our focus need to be then? If we continue to bring in these properties, bringing these clients, and they're at a certain percentage of management fees and we're able to have our break-even costs covered and then profit. I mean businesses need to be profitable, right, ash? We don't want to be running businesses at a loss, but then that money then goes back in towards the business. So then it could be like well, if we get this revenue target, these are the things that we're going to be able to implement and evolve, because times are changing now and businesses do need to keep up, so we need to be able to show that value in the services that we provide, and that is big, generally, because we need those good fees, though, to be able to support those costs to the business.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So by not charging enough also means that there'll be added pressure put on the property managers to manage more to make the numbers work, which is then going to cause people walking out the door and retention to be quite low, or with retention, yeah, to be quite low, and it's going to cause a high change over property managers. It's going to make the BDMs job harder because they're going to have to get more properties to supplement for that.
Speaker 1:So you might not see it every single day or week in, week out, but long term, if your intention is to stay with that business for a while, which I hope it is yeah, we hope it is we're going to have problems there. So that is a good reminder on the reasons why you keep your fees quite strong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Ash, before we move on, though something because obviously we've known each other for quite a while in the industry and become good friends, but when we spoke at the same conference, there was the passage that you said and was always resonates, and I will always talk to my BDMs about it, and that's just once. You believe in the fees that you charge and that you have to believe that, though, right, like, why are we charging these fees? It's because of the value that we provide, it's because of our team, it's because of our culture, it's because of the additional services that we do, which we'll talk about that but then you don't want to negotiate your fees then, because you're just so firm in your belief in that you won't want to drop your fees, whereas if you just keep dropping your fees, dropping your fees, well, how are you actually going to believe that you're worth the fees in the first place? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Let's get into impairing to others, and you had this as one of the other things that is hurting the industry.
Speaker 2:So talk me through your thoughts with yeah, yeah, and then what I typically will share is because I'm wanting to add value, and I also am having conversations with people that are comparing themselves with people that they don't know only online. So they don't know these people, they're just seeing what they put on their social media and they're comparing themselves, and then what's happening is then they get limiting beliefs or they start getting imposter syndrome. They start going, oh my God, I'm not good enough, I'm not doing enough, and then they just get it down this rabbit hole, and they can get stuck in that rabbit hole where, in reality, they don't know what systems are in place in that business, unless they've actually built that relationship with that person or that team or that office. They don't know. They're just, okay, really looking at what's perceived on the outside instead of really understanding what's happening in the inside of that business.
Speaker 2:So that's when I, you know, my biggest thing is I'm encouraging business development managers or just people in the industry, to look at the things that they can control, though, and to really lift themselves up so that, yes, there will be still looking at what other people are doing and I know that you'll talk about that, ash, but it's like, yes, we can look at what other people are doing, but not comparing though not going. Well, I'm not good enough doing what I'm doing now, or I should be doing more. It's like we have that control of what we can do, but if we keep comparing ourselves to other people, then you just get stuck, and that's what I'm seeing a lot of people. They come to me because they feel stuck. They don't know what to do. They're looking at what everyone else is doing. They're not just focusing on the things that they can do and what they can control.
Speaker 1:And I think so.
Speaker 1:My thought is a little bit different to the comparing, because I see comparing as a good thing, but I think from really talking to you about it and I get that side.
Speaker 1:But you've lived it with the like, with people having those negative thoughts and those doubts creeping in and people who compare themselves and let it give them a negative impact. So I think, like, naturally, like I'm quite a positive person, so naturally for me I always think comparing is a good thing, because in my mind I'm thinking well, I can compare myself to you and say you know what, I'm on the right track, like I'm going okay. Or I could compare myself to you and say you know what I probably could improve in this and I probably could get better at cold calling, for example. And for me I only see it from a negative I'm sorry from a positive point of view, because naturally that's how I work, but I guess yeah, if you've got a choice when you look at other people's social media and see what they're doing you can either look at the good side of it or you can let the negativity get to you, so it's, I guess, a choice that people can also make when they are scrolling.
Speaker 1:I guess I just look at it so differently and I feel like social media is such a perception game Like it's.
Speaker 2:People can perceive things as they want, and actually I'm going to share like a little personal story today.
Speaker 1:I had a coffee meetup yesterday and I posted a photo and didn't even realise that in that photo there were some people on a phone and for me I was. I didn't really pay much attention to it, but I think it's great. I think it's great that people don't stop attending a coffee and conversation meetup because they claim they're too busy or whatever it is Like. I love that they get out there. I love that they can still handle any maintenance or emergencies that come through. They can manage both. They can.
Speaker 1:You know they're having a coffee, they chat and guess what? If the phone needs to be answered for five minutes, they can answer the phone. It's all about balancing but making sure that you're still getting out to these, these networking and these events. And there was actually some negativity on that photo and I actually had one of the one of the girls call me up and say I've got so many people calling me about because I was on my phone in that photo and I said, listen, I'll pull it down. It's really not a big problem, but it's really interesting how different people have to see a photo at yearcare it's.
Speaker 1:it is just such, such a perception. So I wouldn't go as far as like saying to those people that maybe have that little bit of negative, like negative mindset when it comes to it, like they're. They're probably and I'm being really generic here but they also might be the people that don't aren't comfortable with showing up on social media themselves. Social media.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, another well, yeah, a personal story, and a perfect example of, you know, comparison. I think, first of all, ash, it's that we have to have that awareness, though it does start with us, right, because our realities are different. Your reality is going to be completely different to mine. Our perceptions of things are going to be completely different, and it's still been empathetic towards other people, though, like they're, they're allowed to have their perceptions and their reality. What I'm not okay with, though, is people judging someone if they don't know them. Yeah, and social media is becoming a massive marketing tool. Now. That's essentially what it is. It's a marketing tool to have the courage and confidence to evenly show up on social media.
Speaker 2:A lot of people struggle with that in the first place. Now, one particular girl she came to me and said, sarah, like I love that you're doing videos all the time, but I feel like I look like shit all the time and I don't look as pretty as you. And this is what someone said to me. And, first thing, I was like oh my gosh, I'm like I never liked doing videos when I started out, you know, and, but we've got to start somewhere. And I knew, though, that the benefits of doing videos would come to fruition in the next month, the next day. So I made that commitment and choice to myself that even if I you know who at the moment I've got my people can't see me, but I've got my, my active wear on Um and it's just.
Speaker 2:We've got to do it because people will want to hear from us. People need us, they need we, they need our opinions, they need our perspectives, they need that different reality. Check on on things, because that's the beauty of of who we are we're humans. That means we're not going to be perfect. So I think it's don't you never know what's going on behind the scenes though that's my whole thing Like we don't know what that day that person has had.
Speaker 2:We don't understand the courage that it may have took to them to do that video in the first place. We don't know the story that they've been on. Unless you've actually taken that initiative and sent them a message and gotten to know them, then absolutely go for it. Compare yourself. If you go, oh shit, I'm not doing enough, then absolutely and then find someone that will help you and support you, because there's so many of us out there now in the industry. So that's what you know from my thing when it was come to stop comparing, cause we just don't know what happens behind the scenes. Unless you actually know someone and understand, you know what they're doing in the ins and outs of their businesses too. Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:Now let's get into my favorite. Yeah, Not charging for services. I am so obsessed with this tip because now property managers have the perfect opportunity to really show their value, their worth, their importance within a business and as property managers, and we need to really like we should be on pedestals. You know more than some other departments in the office, so I am a massive believer I'm not doing. There are some things that I'm personally still doing for free that I think I probably should. So I'm totally, you know, not an expert, but for me I always charge for pre-purchase inspections. I think I was probably the first in, I was probably the first in WA that charge and I'm probably the most expensive in WA that charges.
Speaker 2:I think not just in WA Ash, though. I think Australia wide. Honestly, I don't know many people and I've talked to a lot of people and I'm encouraging it as much as I can because of hearing what you implemented and how you did it. But honestly, it needs to happen because buyer advisors and buyer agents they're not going to not charge someone who's looking to purchase an investment property to go look at all of these properties for them. There's got to be that fine line between what are the services that we're happy to provide for free.
Speaker 2:So if that is yep, they send you through the property they're looking out to purchase and you just need a door rental appraisal letter for their finance or whatever it might be, then so be it. But then if you need to go out and say, well, is the property going to be compliant? Does it meet minimum standards? Will they have to put in more money to their investment property? Is there modifications or cosmetic things that they can do to the property to increase the value? If it's telling them or showing them all of the tenants that have recently rented properties like that in the area and what kind of tenants would attract, that's a lot of time that you're putting into that one client. So, absolutely, I think there is such a need for it and definitely a place now where property managers and business development managers can step up and really start showing that extra value in the investor support services is what I call them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that the way that, like I had a client the other day email me to say that he wants pre-purchase inspections done for free and, as a result, he'll give me the privilege actually was the word he used the privilege of managing his property afterwards and first of all, I could tell it's a very high maintenance client, the high maintenance email getting through. But what made me feel better and I guess I'll mention in case anyone else feels a bit awkward about it, or is that, when I responded back, I said listen, I said thanks for your email. We do offer complimentary online assessment so you can send through unlimited properties and I'll get that done. However, we do have a charge for our pre-purchase inspection and we do conduct these seven days a week so that people could see that they are happening sort of on the weekends and after hours, which I'm fine to do, but you need to pay for that. But I thought that by offering or even if everyone does complimentary well, I would assume everyone does complimentary appraisals online but by adding that in to say, well, here is the free part that you can utilise, but here's the paid part, as opposed to just responding back and saying, no, sorry, there's a fee. It was ensuring that they know what they can actually get for free and they can utilise that and then at what point the paid services come in and it's not compulsory. They don't have to if they don't want to.
Speaker 1:I know that I felt when I first started charging a few years ago. I was really, really worried because I was my opinion. All my thoughts at the time was what if I don't get any of the business like I'm wanting? The management and it was. It was very, very tough and I changed my fee package a couple of times for the pre-purchase inspections just to fine tune it, and now I do the property. But it was. I was so worried I was going to not get any business because I would go to the free people.
Speaker 1:But do you know what's interesting? And it comes down to the perception that because I now charge for it, they're even if they don't want to use that paid service and they, you know they use someone else or whatever it is they actually always come back to me for the management because they actually sort of see that, okay, she charges for it and they might not want to pay for it, but they sort of still put me a little bit higher on the pedestal, because you know what I mean. Like it's like you wouldn't go to that. Well, you maybe would, but you wouldn't go to the cheapest surgeon, would you? You'd go to the most reasonable but maybe an expensive surgeon. You don't get a cheap job there, but yeah, so that's the way that I see it.
Speaker 1:I actually feel like it's elevated my brand and elevated the quality of our management department by offering it and, at the end of the day, no one knows whether, like if you were to just go, you know what I'm going to give it a go and just see and charge for it. No one has to know how many clients are paying for it, whether it's, you know, two per month or 20 per month but the fact that you're charging it and offering it as a service is what's actually going to elevate your brand.
Speaker 2:Well, it's your point of difference, ash, right, and the other thing is it's you're adding that value. So right now, especially you know business development managers this is actually gold for them. It's showing that well, no, they don't just onboard, you list your property, do the marketing and potentially lease it which I mean there's a lot of BDMs that don't really do leasing anymore but you're actually helping them on their journey. You're in there before they've even purchased that investment property and you're on their team, you're on their power team and you're just putting this extra value. I'm actually going to mic drop Ash, because there's something that I didn't charge for and if I could go back as a BDM, I would absolutely charge for this. All right, so this is pre Settlement inspections, collecting settlement packs and doing all those things at the start.
Speaker 1:So I'm not charging for that and I 100% agree with you that it's the a paying service.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, because the time spent, the due diligence that I did and I would get amazing feedback from my clients that I did that because there was a lot of other BDMs though the property managers that weren't even offering that service in the first place. So I already knew that that was something that I was doing that other people weren't even offering and I was happy to do that. That was me showing that I was going above and beyond the client's expectations. But I could have absolutely charged my clients for that, because I had a lot of clients that were in interstate. They weren't in Melbourne. So for those of you who saw yes, I am in Melbourne. I just so you know now. So there was definitely a need for it there and I would 100% would have guaranteed that my clients would have paid for that.
Speaker 1:Do you. I've just written myself down, I think, for things that if you're not charging, you could. And I just claim I'm not charging for all of these either. So you know I'm not perfect, but I think the like you said pre-settlement inspections, yes. Pre-purchase inspections, yes. Setting up a handover from management I reckon you could get away with doing, because doing that whole picking up the files, setting it all up, making sure like all the documents are there, I think you could get away with doing a set up fee there.
Speaker 1:And I feel like the other one that I'd really love to do and I just, I just don't know is the project management. Yeah, the management comes on board. They want Renault's paint flooring your kitchen. I don't charge for that and I know I should. Yes, you should be no, I know, and I just I. So we've sort of done it. We've tried to like baby steps. So the way we baby stepped it is that if the works over 20,000, then it goes straight to. I get one quote from a full maintenance person who quotes on everything, and the owner's second option is that they do it themselves. So I'll provide the one quote from one person and then the owner does it. So we've actually had quite a few owners actually end up doing the Renaults themselves from with their buyer's agent. That's fine, but when it comes to just like paint and new carpet, we've just been doing that ourselves. Yeah, I definitely feel like something could be put in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I remember as a property manager, ash I. So unfortunately this is what wasn't the landlord's fault, it was actually tenants that had left the property in really bad state. But I had to organize everything. So I had to do the insurance claim. I had to. It was $100,000 worth of so work that I had to organize. So painters, carpet, we had electrical things that needed to be done, the whole tiling need to be like ripped up, like this house was an absolute mess.
Speaker 2:But the amount of energy and effort that I put in and that particular client was not in Melbourne, he was in New South Wales and 100% I did it because I mean at that time this was unknown Like we would never charge a client for this. But to go back and think, wow, I was at that property so much, liaising with all of the trades, doing the insurance claims as well, making sure that everything looked great, because the client wasn't here and he couldn't see it. So I had to go in, take photos, videos, everything like that and manage it all. I mean that's invaluable to a client just to do that.
Speaker 2:And then the other aspect is if you've got a client who is purchasing a property, you've got trusted trades that you use. That will work really quickly because they are an extension of your business and your brand, and I think there needs to be a line, though. So I liked what you said, ash, about if it's one quote or if it's just maybe it's like $6,000 or anything over that, then you charge a fee. I think there is definitely charged for that because, again, they trust you, you've got the right trades there, you'll ensure that the job will be done, you'll go there and check it all. So there is definitely, I think, areas that you could include in your business to charge for that, and I think clients would pay for it.
Speaker 1:And I think maybe going back to that the pre-purchase inspection analogy, where I've got the free option and then the paid option, maybe doing the same with the project management and saying to a client listen, we do offer one for any works over 10,000, we do offer one quote and then any subsequent quotes 200 to whatever it might be. So that could be an option, so that you are still giving people a free option for them to use, but you are getting paid for maybe the more high maintenance clients or the ones that want a lot more out of you. So it just balances out that whole awkwardness when it comes to fees. I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think, just going back though, that I mean I know so many landlords that I worked with and ended up doing renovations themselves or using their own tradesmen, and then I've gone in once it's finished and it's been an absolute, I was like, no, this is so bad, so it's just providing that, well, look, these are our trades and we trust them and this is the work that they've done. It's still showing them you gotta show that value in that you can't just say, well, this is a charge that we're doing and it's you still gotta show them, well, what are they getting out of that? And showing them examples of, perhaps, work that your tradesmen have done and the time that has to go into it, and saying, well, do you have the time to go get three quotes or to meet them at the property or will you leave a key safe there? These are all things that we've had to do for our clients and I think that's definitely a real need for that and they will appreciate that so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, sarah. It's been wonderful chatting to you. So those three tips that people have got to, all three things that they're doing that are hurting the industry, are real eye-opening topics for people just to really start getting confidence, start getting motivated in that space and start having some balls to make these changes.
Speaker 2:Yes, let's do it. Let's make those changes. Come on, we can all do it. Let's do it.
Speaker 1:If we all do it together, then it doesn't look as daunting, because that's just what everyone does and we've got that mentality don't we?
Speaker 2:What do we do?
Speaker 1:So I think they're fabulous. Now, if anyone is interested in working with Sarah, jump onto her website and what is your website? Address actually.
Speaker 2:So wwwrisewithsarahsincottacomau Don't judge me, guys. The business has evolved and the website revamp is coming soon, but probably best way, Ash, is social media. So if you just look up Risewithsarahsincotta, connect with me there.
Speaker 1:Wonderful and go follow Sarah anyway, because she always posts beautiful, wonderful tips and you're a great inspiration to watch for the BDM world. So thank you for joining us today and all that valuable information, and we'll see you soon. Insects.
