PM Collective - The ART of property management
The ART of property management with Ashleigh Goodchild is a leading platform supporting collaboration not competition through an online community and events throughout the year with one purpose: to create happier property managers. She creates connections for property managers looking to create momentum in their careers and personal life. Join Ashleigh and her guests as they discuss challenges, struggles, mental health, mindset and give advice to property managers and anyone in the industry. To get the support in your property management career, join our PM Collective Facebook and Instagram community.
PM Collective - The ART of property management
Mastering the Multi-Generational Workplace: Embracing Diversity and Adapting to Change
Ready to conquer the challenge of managing a multi-generational workplace? Listen in as we chat with Marjan from MK Advisory, a HR expert with experience in the federal government, who shares her wisdom on embracing the strengths and diversity of the people we manage. Discover vital insights on working in harmony with different generations, like the Baby Boomers, who currently make up the largest portion of the workforce and bring ample opportunities for a thriving office environment.
As technology continues to reshape our world, it affects the expectations of the multi-generational workforce as well. Don't miss our discussion on how employers can adapt their training and management practices to better fit the needs of their team, while considering the expectations of clients across different generations. Plus, explore the potential of AI to offer solutions for quick responses.
MK Advisory
PM COLLECTIVE - GUIDE AND SHAPE AN ENJOYABLE FUTURE
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Specialising in agency operations, team development and technology integration, we provide the insight, support, and training to maximise your performance.
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Welcome to the PM Collective, a dynamic hub designed to empower business owners, property managers and BDMs to excel in their careers Through access to intimate conversations, cutting edge of video training, mental health support and unparalleled motivation. our community is the ultimate destination for individuals seeking to elevate their professional lives to new heights. So sit back, relax and enjoy our next conversation on our weekly podcast, the Art of Property Management. So today's podcast is with the lovely Marjan from MKadvisory. Welcome, hello, thank you. Now. have you done a podcast before?
Speaker 2:I have. This is my second one. Fantastic, what was the?
Speaker 1:topic for your first one.
Speaker 2:That was around turning your pain into power and very much a podcast for women in business. Women in colour in business.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, Excellent, Yeah. Today I've briefly spoken to you about how this one is for property managers. We find that these podcasts are so helpful for the property management industry and I get beautiful feedback from so many people. And today's topic, I know, is going to be one that is going to resonate with so many people, because we are talking about multi-generational workplaces, which is a hot topic at the moment with so many people I speak to And I'm really excited to get into it because it's a really it's a. It's a what's the word Like? it's just a fascinating time we are in with managing so many different types of people and just the world in general and the opinions of the world. It's just such a, such an interesting topic. But before we get into it, I'd love for you to share with everyone that's listening today a little bit about you, your background and where you are now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Excellent Thanks, ash. So I have recently moved to Perth from Canberra and have largely been working with the federal government on HR and people type of strategies. So that varies from leadership and career coaching to facilitating kind of team planning workshops, creating workforce strategies and people strategies and also really thinking about the people that we manage and work with. In doing that, very much think about it from a strengths perspective, so really understanding the strengths of the people that you work with and how you can kind of work in harmony. So people, culture, behavior change that's all my kind of thing. And post COVID, we are in such an interesting time and you know managers, executives from all types of industries are so keen to better understand how they can manage their people. So love the space. It's never a dull moment. No, two days are the same because you're dealing with people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the thing with multi generations, or I guess, the different generations is that they have like. this is my perception that there is very distinctive personality traits in different ages of people. Is that like a fair comment to say, or is that a bit of a mystery?
Speaker 2:Great question, because I think, whilst there are the generalizations around the five different generations, you know with regards to their priorities, their communication styles, you know how they embrace change and innovation, i think you know there's a big risk in making assumptions as well, because, i mean, i personally am in Gen Y and I am a dinosaur when it comes to digital and tech right, and so I'm quite an outlier and I'm not your kind of typical.
Speaker 2:So when people expect that I'm going to come in and just be this pro when it comes to creating a PowerPoint presentation and all the rest, you know that's quite limiting for me because I'm probably one of the later doctors of digital. And that's also the case when you do look at the aging workforce and when you do look at the boomers and the maturists, you know there's this assumption that they aren't adopters of technology. But then you know there'll be the one that comes out and has a TikTok account and is teaching you how to do it. So I think, yes, take it with a grain of salt the kind of perceptions and the attitudes. It is a good way of understanding the context that people have been raised in and the influences, the global influences, the events in life that have probably shaped. You know their personalities and their preferences when it comes to work. But I think at the same time there's so much more opportunity in the diversity of the generations than there are kind of faults.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's how I'd like everyone who's listening to look at it as well The opportunities within your business to have a diverse range of different generations and personalities in the office. Look at it as a positive and don't look at the negative things. So I think that that's where I would like people to get the most out of any frustrations I guess that they may have. So, just for those that maybe let's just talk about the extreme ends of the generations the older end, that would be the baby boomers Is that the Yeah, the baby boomers and we're starting to have the traditionalists kind of exit the workforce.
Speaker 2:But your baby boomers are typically aged around the 57 to 77 and, yes, at the moment they probably comprise about 33% of the workforce. So I guess some typical kind of experiences that they were raised in was cold war. They were very much family oriented and their aspiration was very much around that job security. So they're the kind of the baby boomers are probably the eldest generation that we've got in the workforce at the moment.
Speaker 1:And they're probably the loyal, loyal and firm employees. Would that be a big deal?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely So. For them, their attitude towards their career, their jobs are for life, so they're very loyal to their careers and for them they kind of look at multiple kind of jobs within the one career and don't really look outside of that. So, yes, you can absolutely expect loyalty from your baby boomers.
Speaker 1:And then they would be expecting from an employer like so, the stability of a workplace. They're probably and this is generalizing, of course, but they're generally probably not as money driven, but then it's more important for them to have a stable job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. For them it's the stability and the security of the job. With respects to, i guess, the communication, they really like scheduled meetings. They're not really into the impromptu and the ad hoc, you know, and their preferences face to face on a whole, so which is quite different to the way we're evolving at the moment And so, yeah, for them even learning has very much been in the classroom and has been in kind of education institutions, so definitely they're kind of the common traits that you'd expect from them.
Speaker 1:Okay, and let's go to the other end, which is so I don't even kind of a key part. She's at the bottom.
Speaker 2:Something else Gen Z. So Gen Z is the other end, generation Z, which are typically the people born after I guess, yeah. So they're the ones that are aged 12 to 25, and they're the ones that are entering the workforce at the moment. So for them, work-life balance is very important and work needs to align to their life purpose. So they're very much around making sure that there is that integration between work and life. Is that just that?
Speaker 1:It's like I know that COVID has escalated that whole work-life balance. Do you even wonder what if we didn't have COVID? like would we still have people wanting that integration of the work-life balance? Like, isn't it amazing the way the world works and the way that COVID has happened at the same time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, covid was the catalyst for many things, but what it really did was it changed the way we work essentially, and all of these preferences of all of these generations literally went out the window overnight because we were forced to work from a particular location, in a particular way, using particular tools.
Speaker 2:And you know what We made it work Right. And so I think, post COVID, people have really started to see the art of the possible And, yes, whilst work-life balance has become more of a topical, i guess, point of discussion, it really does come down to, i think, the boundaries that people are setting, like I think it's blurred, the line between home and work, particularly, you know, if you do work from home for most of your week. But I think that's where discipline really comes in And a lot of that falls back to the individual and managing expectations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we've got the 12 to 25, which is the Gen Z, which is definitely, like you mentioned, wanting to have a purpose in the business.
Speaker 1:So, they definitely want to understand the business's values and things like that. So here's the problem We've got generally the baby boomers who own businesses, like the managers in some sense, with their own views on the world, now trying to understand the other end. Both ends are right, but that's where this imbalance is coming from. So if you're listening and you are a baby boomer and you do have these Gen Zs in the business, then this is where the tricky part, i find, is coming into play. Because it's fine.
Speaker 1:I guess I'm really torn and I'm going to be honest with you, because I'm sure there's other people that think like I think. Well, hopefully there is, and I'm not the only person But it feels sometimes like that we are the ones that have to accommodate. Yet I really struggle and sort of sometimes think to myself well, why can't the other end accommodate? You know I don't am stubborn and I know I am, but I guess that's what I honestly feel like. Like why do I have to mold in with this, or is it just as you're being stubborn? you've got to get with the times?
Speaker 2:No, it's a really great observation And you know there has been commentary around newer generations being a bit more entitled when it comes to the workplace. And look, right now, when we look at the labor market, it is an employee's market. So I think that really does mean that we need to compromise a bit more, because attracting and retaining good talent is hard at the moment. So I think, noting that context, we do need to really ensure that we're offering a very compelling employee value proposition And, i think, attracting that generation Z I mean they like to work a lot and they're the ones that are very much into the digital and the tech, which very much is the future of business right. So it's kind of it's tough, because I think there's a lot that we can learn from them around how to potentially be more sophisticated, how to be using more, i guess, digitally enabled tools to be more efficient and all of that.
Speaker 2:But I do think it's reasonable to also expect them to come to the party, and I think a lot of that really just comes to really just being open and honest.
Speaker 2:I mean, gen Z's appreciate collaborative workplace environments. So I think when you are looking at developing values for your business or when you are looking at coming up with a business strategy, invite them into the conversation right, and I think a lot of that is very much about that inclusion. They just wanna be part of the convo, they wanna feel like they're adding value. So I think that there's a bit of that and bringing them in and making them obviously feel seen and heard. But I think at the same time, you know, if they are communicated about the way you work, the values of the organization, the culture, and if that job clarity and expectations is set up front, absolutely I think they should be held to account And I think that that's so reasonable. So, but I think it really just does come down to understanding your people, because you could have two Gen Z's that operate completely different. So I think it's always important to ask the question and don't make assumptions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Then we've got the people in between, so I'm 41, so I always forget what I am. I think I'm Gen X.
Speaker 2:You're yeah, you're kind of on the cusp. So you're yeah, on the cusp of millennial slash Gen Y and Gen X, so yeah.
Speaker 1:I'd rather call myself a Gen X for the purpose of this, okay. But I mean, i was at a conference and it was interesting because it was talking about how, like, the Gen X is potentially the best option for a management position, because, they're quite in the middle. They've got that little balance, where they can balance both, you know Gen Z's and baby boomers to the management position being run by a Gen Z or management being run by a baby boomer, which sort of makes sense to me, but what's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so absolutely, i mean so Gen X kind of comprised of the bulk of the they're kind of at that 35% range of being in the workforce. And you're right, i mean you have obviously lived experience of being brought up and raised amongst the boomers. So I think there's a higher level of empathy that you have for their working styles and understanding of where they come from. But then at the same time you're also very much keeping abreast of what's coming and the Gen Z kind of attributes and all of that. So I think you know there's obviously, you know, the work experience that comes, but then also the wisdom that comes with the life experience and seeing.
Speaker 2:So obviously you have been part of the evolution of where internet was introduced. So you know. So you have an appreciation for the before and the after and an appreciation, i think, for the strength of what used to be. So I think there's that hybrid ability to work. So I think you know you're a bit more flexible as to whether you know you want to use email, sms or whether you want to do face to face. So the preferences aren't as strong with regards to communication. With regards to learning, there's a bit more of that kind of, i'd say, resilience as well.
Speaker 2:So I mean I would agree that you know probably the ideal management level at the moment, noting just the kind of appreciation for all generations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, i was actually just speaking to my kids the other night because they were doing some homework and one of them had to read a book, and he was saying, oh, it's so hard to, you know, to read a book and his attention's not there when reading it.
Speaker 1:And he just said that I could just download it off Netflix and watch the movie. And I'm like, oh gosh, you know how easy is it these days Now, you don't have to read the book, you can just download the movie. So true, i would talk about how, like back in the day when we had encyclopedias and encyclopedias, my mum and dad paid so much money for these things. Yeah, it was probably about five years ago that my mum was cleaning out the shed and she had to get rid of them and sell them, and she broke her heart that she had to sell these things because it cost her so much in a time she probably didn't have. Yes, and now she pretty much was selling them for like, or she wasn't even selling them. They were a giveaway for my starters, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think that example just shows that you know what you've kind of been raised in and like seeing now the opposite extreme. I mean I also had an encyclopedia in our house and it was our most treasured. you know, he's a furniture if you like.
Speaker 2:And you know, with my six year old I'm trying to get her to start reading and the other day I was getting frustrated and I said to dad oh gosh, she's just not applying herself when it comes to reading. And he said oh, you know what, at the rate that Generity Bay is, you know who knows if she even needs to Like. And I was like you know what? Yeah, you know, you do question the role of institutions and everything. We are entering a new revolution that is going to change the way we work And that's for a separate conversation. But the AI revolution is real, so we need to be looking at how we're prepared for that, because they're saying it's the next big thing, like the internet. So yeah, so I think it's very, very interesting and the way that the children of today are being raised and what they will see going to be very different to what we're raised with.
Speaker 1:Well, and also what they're going to be expecting in the workplace And like that sort of, i guess is just one reminder for managers that are listening, just as an idea that you know when you are training your team or doing something, that potentially a video training is. That you know, maybe you record something yourself and you email it to the team for their training that week, as opposed to having them read something. I mean, i'm just throwing that out there as an idea, but they're little tiny tweaks that we can do to help manage the generations, make training, you know, easier, like even. I know it sounds really silly, but even things like we have using Messenger chat, messenger chat or constant communication, is really good for the younger generation as well. They seem to enjoy that, interact with it and stay in touch with the team, as opposed to the old fashioned face-to-face meeting, which we don't I don't personally do in our office, but you know, it's just even those micro changes in a business.
Speaker 1:I think about. Is the face-to-face meeting still relevant, or is, you know, a Messenger chat every single day a better option?
Speaker 2:So little things Absolutely. And I think you know these days we do question sometimes the relevance of some meetings and you know there's always the question of that could have been an email or that could have just been, you know, a chat. And so when we do think of it from a perspective of productivity and efficiency, i think there is so much that we can learn from the younger generations. But then again, they love to multitask and they're known to have five different apps open at one time And you know their brains are kind of wired in that way, whereas you know the older generations do like to focus on one thing at a time and don't like to spread themselves thin or across. So but yes, I think when the business case around efficiency and productivity comes in, it really helps bring people on the journey, but also, i think it's development right, like don't? we all want to spend less time in meetings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Exactly. And I think another thing that's really important to mention here is that right now we're talking about the multi-generational workplace, but that also extends to our client database and the different generations that we're dealing with as clients, as tenants and as landlords. So with the, you know, the tenants that we're dealing with and actually even landlords, where they're expecting that answer immediately, which is really burning us out quite a lot on the other end And maybe it's burning out the older generation more than the younger generation but understanding that these, you know, our clients who are in that generation that are expecting that quick response, that is affecting our workplace as well. So then that comes into that whole AI, which I know that we're going to be doing more together with that in the future. But that whole AI is something that we might want to take advantage of to help that immediate, quick response that everyone is expecting these days.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and it's just great hearing you talk about the clientele And it would be great to do some analysis on kind of even just the characteristics and attributes of, you know, tenants, landlords, across those generations. But, yes, service delivery, so that the nature of service delivery, regardless of the industry, is changing. And you're right, people are expecting responses instantly because we are spoiled, right. If we need an answer, we just go on Google and we ask it. That delayed gratification no longer is kind of there and people do have options, right. So if they're not getting the service that they want, the loyalty isn't really there and they'll kind of move on.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, i think, understanding the expectations, but even before doing that, even managing theirs and saying, look, you know, generally speaking, we should be back to you within 24 hours. You know we've sent you email, but it's just about, i think, within all of the kind of tech, how do you still remain human and how do you keep that connection with your client? Because I think we spoke about this earlier around. You know this notion of well, you know, if the relationship's built, then it kind of it takes all the kind of policies and procedures and all that stuff kind of a bit out the door And then the relationship is the most important thing, and there's discretion, i'd say, from both ends. When you've built that solid relationship, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:How do you keep the relationship going in plan so you can?
Speaker 2:give me to. Well, i would say, prioritize it. I would say that the relationship would probably be the biggest thing that you need to invest in, and that is and I know everyone's time, paul, i know, but it is the niceties. So, whilst service delivery is becoming more automated, community expectations that their services will be more personalized. So there's that kind of well, yeah, the computer can give me these answers, but what they're craving then is that empathy. They're craving that kind of more bespoke, tailored type of service delivery, right, because the robots can do all the other.
Speaker 2:You know mundane and that kind of stuff. So I think how can you kind of prioritize going out for a coffee or really just personalizing even the comms or the emails? I personally have real estate agency managing my property back in Canberra and just the way that their comms is so personalized, i feel special and you know that they're probably sending it to the whole mailing list, but when you receive it you feel like it's written for you, so little kind of ways that you can make them feel like they're special, i guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so then that would be. I guess it's sort of using AI smartly, isn't it? and using it in the background for definitely just task stuff, which ideally should then allow you to have the time to have that personal human connection and I think that's what you know.
Speaker 1:When AI and all and even VA's, for example if I use them as an example people used to always say you know they're taking our jobs, ai's taking our job. It's actually shouldn't be seen that way. It's not taking our job, it's making our job easier so that we can then have those human connections and have the time to do that. That might be sort of the best way for people to understand how they can benefit from it, but not let it replace our job.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely so. And then, yes, that's right, it is to free up our capacity to be able to create more of that human connection and provide more of that value add, if you like, in that exchange of service.
Speaker 1:It's such a demanding world, isn't it like it's okay. So you want a response within two hours, or one hour, or five minutes plus you also want to still have that human connection. Plus it's like what more could you take from me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely it's. It's. It's hard to really stay on top of it and or at your breath, and I think that does come down to just the choice, the amount of choice and the accessibility around is is is, yeah, so kind of abundant that people don't really have that loyalty, which is a shame. But I think, generally speaking, the the commonalities across the groups. There are commonalities across the groups and and I think it's important to call that out, so you know, across all five generations, you know they all still care about competitive pay and benefits, right, whilst whilst you know pay is not as important for some people. Let's be real, inflation is a thing, interest rates are going up and some people are regrettably leaving jobs and going to other jobs because it's better pay, because they've got mortgages to pay. So I think that's one thing that's consistent after COVID. People do care about flexible and remote work, that's a thing. And and being able to work in their own time and, you know, flexibly, career advancement everyone kind of would love a bit of, you know, progression and investment and that kind of stuff. Um, so I think that's important.
Speaker 2:And then I guess, if you look at your clients and if you just look at the service delivery, i guess, offer. You know people want to, to trust their property managers, or you know their person. People want timely feedback, people want quality services. So I think, um, you know, if you, if you focus on what it is that all generations want, then then that way you can actually create some boundaries and and kind of be a bit more kind of firmer in how you kind of manage expectations. And I don't want to say push back, because you're not pushing back, but you're saying this is our service offer, these are our general, you know, turnaround times. We will try to get back as soon as we can, but you know, and that way I think you're kind of um, you're you're kind of protecting your people from the burnout yeah, absolutely, which is something.
Speaker 1:It's a real focus point. That was such a wonderful chat with you. I love this topic and I hope everyone that listened to it loved it too, and I know that you and I will do some more, together with one that is a member of the PM club. Um, we are going to be doing a webinar, um, and then, hopefully, we'll have some in-person events coming up soon regarding these topics, which I know everyone is going to love.
Speaker 1:So, if anyone wants to reach out to you, i will have your details on the show notes as well, and I would encourage everyone to get in touch with Marjan's to have a look at what she can offer your workplace as well, and it might be something there beneficial for you to explore. And I love the way that you said not to make assumptions, and I think we really just need to be better educated with this topic, and the more we educate ourselves with it, um, the better it will be, or the easier our lives will be, because we'll have a better understanding. So so thank you for all your knowledge on the topic and please reach out to Marjan if you need her and keep an eye out for some more work that we will do together as well um on this topic, plus AI and some really exciting stuff as well. Thank you so much. Thank you you.
