Navigating Real Estate Sales with a Property Management Background

Ever wondered about going into property sales? Corrine from Ray White Beenleigh is nothing short of a juggernaut, embarking on a transition from a receptionist to the powerhouse of a property management department, and now, conquering the sales scene. This episode peels back the layers of Corrine's career evolution, providing a front-row seat to the tenacity it takes to break into real estate sales, especially when you're balancing the demands of motherhood and nurturing a side passion for crafting children's clothes. Our chat is great for motivation for anyone needing that extra push to chase after those seemingly elusive goals.

This episode is about why some agents swap the erratic tides of sales for the anchored shores of property management. Corrine underscores the art of leveraging a property management past to cut through the competition. This episode is a masterclass for property managers on the cusp of burnout, weighing the prospects of a sales domain switch—a move that could just be the defining moment of their career. So, buckle up for a ride along with Corrine as we unpack the resilience and strategic thinking that propels success in the real estate industry.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

I am super excited to introduce you guys to Corinne from Ray White Beanley. She's been on our podcast before, but she has last episode. You were in property management and I think we're talking about BDM and things like that, and now you have changed your career so well, sort of changed your career, changed your position. So welcome. Thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me back, ash. So let's just start off with. Actually we'll go straight into it.

Speaker 2: 0:51

You were in property management before and I think you were running a team at the time I was yeah, I was actually head of our property management department, and I was also the business development manager as well, so it was a very, very busy role. I only actually worked four days a week too, so the transition into sales from four days to six days has been a little bit different with my daughter, but yeah, I'm really loving it.

Speaker 1: 1:20

And so how long have you done property management for?

Speaker 2: 1:23

And so how long have you done property management for? Oh God, I started in real estate in 2008. So, yeah, I think I'd done property management for about 14 and a half years before I had decided to make the jump into sales. So all up, yeah, about 15 years in real estate in total.

Speaker 1: 1:38

Excellent. Sorry, it's too early for me to calculate 2008 to 2024. So I'm glad you did that for me.

Speaker 2: 1:44

Well, I'm pretty sure those numbers are correct. It feels like 20 years, but Absolutely so.

Speaker 1: 1:50

You have a long career in property management and I didn't get any inkling at the time when I spoke to you that you were thinking of moving or anything like that, and then I saw that you decided to get into sales. So can you talk us through what a reason for that change? Like what? What was the driver for that? Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2: 2:12

Like I think I've always kind of wanted to do sales, especially being in a business development role. I think you know it's kind of really appealed to me. I think the thing that really held me back at start was having a young baby. I knew that I'd have to be doing long hours and I just didn't feel like that was fair. Why having like such a young um daughter?

Speaker 2: 2:34

Really, to be honest with you, I think the change from property management to sales really came down to coming out of COVID and I think I was just tired. I I know that probably sounds a bit cliche, but I feel like I was working all the time. Anyway, I felt like I'd kind of done a lot of what I could do in property management. I'd started as a receptionist, I'd been a property manager, I'd been a leasing consultant, I've done business development management and then I'd run a team.

Speaker 2: 2:59

So, coming out of COVID and then obviously going through staff changes, it was really hard to find good property managers. People were always calling in sick, I was constantly filling in for everyone and not feeling like I could fulfill my full obligation in being the business development manager that I wanted to. So I thought you know what, instead of deciding to have a break from real estate altogether because I did consider that as well I considered leaving real estate for a little while. I thought I'll give sales a go, and if I'm completely crap out of it, then I'll decide to give real estate a break.

Speaker 1: 3:30

So here we are, 12 months later and yeah, because you had a side hustle as well, didn't you? I did?

Speaker 2: 3:36

Yeah, I think the side hustle more was, I think, for the brain switch off. So, yeah, so I used to make, make and sell kids clothes. I do a lot of markets and things like that. I met some really cool people. Um, by doing that side hustle I have put that on hold now being in the sales role because I want to fully commit to it 100%, but it it really helped the creativity side. So I really like marketing, I really like making things and I use that as a switch off instead of, you know, constantly going doing the mum thing and then getting all the emails and keep working. I'd work on something for myself.

Speaker 1: 4:10

Yeah, so you had an interest in the sales before going into property management, but chose property management at the time because it was more stability with kids.

Speaker 2: 4:24

Is that right? Yeah, yeah. More stability with kids. You know, even though I was still doing a lot of out of hours work, being a BDM and talking to people out of hours look, I was doing it at home. It was more security for me. I'd done it for so long and it's like it's what I knew and that's kind of you know where I felt comfortable. And then, as Remy got older, getting out of my comfort zone, I thought, oh, it's now or never. If I fail, then I fail.

Speaker 1: 4:50

yeah, exactly really yeah, was there ever a um, a thought about, like I know that you sort of said I've got to where I could, you know, with the team leader and BD and all of that Was the salary like which, ultimately, you're quite capped in property management. Was that ever something that you thought about and thought, well, I want more of an unlimited cap in salary.

Speaker 2: 5:15

Yeah, I think so as well. And you know, even though I completely love the team that I do work with in property management, you're constantly, you know, working really really hard and everything that you're putting into the business financially obviously goes to the business owner. So obviously you make what you make, whereas in sales I feel like you're kind of out there and the effort that you put in you're kind of reaping it financially a little bit more than what you would be being like a nine to five employee. So that was extremely, I guess, with my daughter going to school and putting schooling options and costs for that as well, was a bit of a driver and kind of just having that unlimited potential to earn more money was, yeah, definitely a big one as well.

Speaker 1: 5:54

So going into sales and you were talking about, you know, being burnt out and obviously you know working a lot of hours Are you still working a lot of hours, though, in sales, but it's different because it's like for yourself, or?

Speaker 2: 6:09

how does that go? Someone asked me this question the other day. They said how like do you like property management better than you like sales, and what do you find the stress is like? And I said it feels like two different types of stress. So when you're working in property management, you have the stress of people completely wanting you. When you're working for a team, so you've the stress of people completely wanting you when you're working for a team. So you've got your staff calling you. You've got your landlords calling you. You've got the business owner calling you like you're responsible for this massive rent roll to make sure that everything's running smoothly. You've got risk management. You've got safety.

Speaker 2: 6:37

It's a different type of stress, I feel, than being a sales agent. Yes, now I do have an assistant. So I do have the stress of. You know I need to make sure that I'm selling because I have wages I need to pay, as well as being able to pay myself. But it's a different type of stress. You know you reap what you put in to the role either on either side of the business. But now I'm just stressed in regards to I want to meet my goals and I need to financially support people, whereas property management was more just trying to keep people happy, constantly just having things being thrown at you from all different types of directions. So it's two completely different stresses, but there's definitely stresses on both sides yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 7:16

Yeah, I was talking to someone the other day about and she she was in property management about 30, 35 years ago, like so for a long time, and back then she was telling me how they used to get paid per inspection, so like, for example, back then it was like $33 an inspection, so she got paid $3. And it did get me thinking about the opportunity for property managers to potentially be on more of a commission based structure so that their potential is more unlimited, because I think, hopefully, that either yeah, sorry, I was just making sure that that was going to come. I think I lost you for a second. No, it might have been my end.

Speaker 1: 8:08

Let me just quickly bring it up. So I'll just quickly recap, just in case that, um, that didn't come through. So, but just the potential for property managers roles to be a bit more on a commission basis, as opposed to that fixed salary, because it is a shame, like I mean, it's great for you and I'm glad you're really enjoying sales, but it's also a shame to lose property managers because of salary, where there's an opportunity for us to really restructure what we see as normal, so going into, like I said, routine inspections and maybe having a commission for each routine inspection that you do for every PCR and you know what I mean things like that. I feel like that's something that could improve. Have you ever heard of anything like that happening, like over in Queensland?

Speaker 2: 8:58

No, not from an inspections point of view. But I have heard of, you know, like agencies having in place KPIs where property managers will be, I guess, at the end of the year, given a bonus if they return, like have clients that don't leave, and things like that as well, which, to be honest with you, I think is great to have that retention bonus as well. So everyone throughout the year is kind of a bit more mindful of those relationships that they are making. But I think it is a good idea because, look, you know you and both know we've met a lot of property managers over the time and there are people that do avoid certain tasks of the job, mostly just because they either don't like it, but having that incentive to ensure that if they get paid per routine inspection, even if their base wage is a little bit lower, you know that those inspections are getting made and they, you know, and they're being paid for it as well.

Speaker 1: 9:45

So I think it's a great idea, to be honest, yeah, yeah, something that I think that we'll see over the next couple of years and we also see like in in the opposite with you. But we also see a lot of sales reps go into property management for stability. I think it's very much it's a personality thing, isn't it? Like some people just driven by the stability, some are driven by the uncomfortable goals, you know, position, you know and all of that. So I know that there's definitely two types of people. But I was listening to someone the other day who was saying that they're really worried for sales reps in this market where there's hardly any listings. Have the listings? Like in Perth they've dropped considerably. I think we've got 3,600 properties on the market for sale and something like ridiculous like 7,000 agents. So it's like two properties per agent, like really minimal agents. So it's like two properties per agent, like really minimal. Your stock levels over in Queensland has there been a drop in sales stock or what's that looking?

Speaker 2: 10:51

like, yeah, there has and look, you know the area that I focus in as well, there are some very high performing agents in that area. So you do find that there'll be multiple of us going into one inspection, to the point where, if you walk out, you do see you know that other agent walking in, which is fine. You know I do love to get along with everyone, but it is hard, like it is hard, and I do think that the one thing that gave me a bit of an advantage coming from property management into sales is the fact that I have thick skin. Sometimes you will find that you know you've got, you know we've got a few associates that are around that 19, 20 mark and they're coming in thinking you know, it's all nice cars and nice watches and you know everything to you, if you work not that hard, you're still going to earn good money.

Speaker 2: 11:37

It's the complete opposite and I didn't have that image coming in Like you know business development and sales. Yes, you know business development and sales. Yes, you know two different type of roles, but sort of not at the same time. You still have to do the same activities, you still have to build relationships as well, and I just didn't come in thinking it was going to be easy.

Speaker 1: 11:56

No, do you um, from having that property management background. Now when you list a property for sale that is like an investment or an investor buys it, do you find like you're pretty good at then bringing it back into the property management because that's something that lacks a bit? I know everyone says, oh, you know that's what they do, but I don't think sales reps generally can be bothered to. You know, really put a lot of energy into bringing into the department because there's no real return for them. So I would imagine you're pretty good in that department.

Speaker 2: 12:30

Yeah, look, it comes quite natural to me. Sometimes I need to know where to start and where to stop as well, because I'm like that's not my job anymore, but having investors come very natural to me. So, you know, a lot of the properties that I have sold over the last 12 months have been investment type stock. I find it very easy to deal with tenants. I know how to explain legislation to tenants and what their rights are. Also, when it comes down to an investor purchasing a property, I can discuss, you know area with them average rents, rental yields, tax appreciation so there's a lot of benefits from that regard. And then usually, once I do hand that lead over to our business development manager. I would think that it really it's kind of laid the groundwork already and I have somewhat already explained a lot of things to them, which I guess would probably make it a little bit easier from that aspect of things.

Speaker 2: 13:19

Also, probably, like when we are talking to people as well, I will always ask if they're happy with their current property manager. It's just really habit, to be honest. I know a lot of salespeople probably don't do that if they're cold calling, but if we know that we're cold calling investors and myself and now my team. That's one of the questions that's a compulsory. Are you happy with your property manager? Would you like us to put you in contact with someone to get a second opinion?

Speaker 1: 13:45

Are your marketing methods very similar, from BDM to sales? Are you finding that it's pretty much the same but just different?

Speaker 2: 13:51

Yeah, I think that's just probably because I did it for so long. I did a lot of, you know, like mail outs and things like that when I was a BDM, so I still have kind of kept with that method. I was actually having that chat with our business development manager this morning. I'm like I feel like now that I've done sales, if I went back into a business development role, my brain would probably work a little bit different and it would be more open and I find that I probably would do, I would say, like some different types of prospecting methods, just to think outside the box. But I do post a lot to investors as well, um, and I feel comfortable with them. Yeah, I would feel more comfortable doing a listing presentation with an investor than you know, like going in and sitting down and in in someone's home and it being their home, because investors is what I know yeah, do you, do you think that you um, or are you thinking about maybe just like honing into that and like just really you being that specialist?

Speaker 2: 14:48

Yeah, well, I actually had this discussion with Josie, my associate I think it was yesterday or the day before is that? You know that they're in the area we work at. There's very high performing agents and a lot of them do sell a lot of homeowner type stocks. So we need to kind of pick, possibly maybe working with those investors, because you know we are so used to doing it, we can have those conversations. So, yeah, we have started kind of honing in on the investors a little bit more and I've also just implemented Realtair as well into the business, which has definitely helped in regards to keeping the investors, because we can't door knock them and get face to face with those clients. Those clients is we're texting them the market update so we can see when they open them. So then I schedule my calls around that. So there's a few things that we have implemented just to kind of, I guess, stay top of mind, because in an area we go in and we say that we're Ray White, but there's so many Ray Whites around that sometimes they won't even remember which Ray White that they've spoken to. So it's just completely being top of mind.

Speaker 2: 15:44

I have noticed a lot of investor stock coming on the market. There's one office in particularly that, like every time they put something on, I have a habit of RP data and just to see where that property leads come from, and I can see that it is coming from their rent rolls. So we also do prospect on the markets for rent for sale. Every time a property comes on the market we do call them because if the property is vacant it's an air flow opportunity. If they do want to sell, they've opened the market up to homeowners and investors. Or if they are considering changing property manager, we can put it in the rent roll pocket and then nurture them from there if they want to sell or even buy more property down the track.

Speaker 1: 16:18

Yeah, why are investors selling over there um?

Speaker 2: 16:22

sometimes, to be honest with you, I've had a few that I think have over committed, so they've had more than one property. Um, the last one I sold, the tenants had only moved in in july. It was a brand new build and we sold it just before christmas. He'd over committed, didn't you know? Interest rates weren't quite where he needed to be and they've made a decision just to cash out. So there's actually been a few people that, within a 12 month period, have sold. Yeah, so it's not so much.

Speaker 1: 16:45

Still, it's not the long-term investors I've noticed lately, it's the short terms yeah, because from my side I think that I get a lot of my clients have got a property in Queensland and then one in Perth and I hear a lot of them talking about how their Queensland property is not going as well as what they wanted and so. But they're using um, but they're not necessarily. Sometimes they're selling to buy in Perth um and get money into the Perth market or they are trying to get a really good deal on a Perth property to help balance it out. So the two properties together are neutral. Yeah, so that's what they've done.

Speaker 2: 17:22

I've also found as well, like some of the investors that I sold for last year in particular, around the end of financial year times, they had to sell their properties to inject funds into their primary place of residence, where they were. So they were either South Australia or Sydney, and I had someone that was building and they needed to inject more funds into their build. So because the prices are going up everywhere else, they're needing to sell their investments to buy somewhere for themselves to live and therefore their family as well. So it's just such a range, but it is interesting to look at the trends compared to how long they've owned the property when we are selling them, and the latest trend is probably about that 12-month mark.

Speaker 1: 17:59

Yeah, yeah, interesting. Yeah, if there was a property manager that was feeling burnt out, feeling like they want to get out of the industry but still love real estate, what would be your advice to them if they were thinking of giving sales a go?

Speaker 2: 18:19

It's not as easy as it looks.

Speaker 1: 18:22

I don't think it looks easy.

Speaker 2: 18:24

So look, sometimes from the outside you'll find sales people will always say, oh, I would never be a property manager. And then property managers will say, oh, I'd never be a salesperson. Look, if you have the personality to be able to one take a rejection which I do think property managers are quite good at because you're at that forefront, it's the rejection and the personality to just be able to keep going and talk to people. So there's all different types. Like I know someone in particular, amazing property manager, just not probably like that outgoing personality. I would probably say, maybe, if you don't want to be in property management anymore, you could say, you know, like Holly, for example, who runs an outsourcing business. Like you could go and work for an outsourcing business. You could go and do entries and routines and then you could support a property manager from that end. But I don't think sales is for everyone.

Speaker 1: 19:14

No, and you're right, it's probably more for maybe the BDMs. So people that have got interested in BDMs, sure, like you're probably pretty good at sales, but if you are a trust accountant you're probably pretty good at sales. But if you are a trust accountant you're probably not going to make it inside.

Speaker 2: 19:28

And look, even some sales people like you know, um, they will want to go into property management because they haven't quite, you know, found that they've taken off from sales. And I sometimes I don't even recommend that because some sales people they look at everything as a transaction. But property management is about relationships really. So you know, if you're going from sales to being a business development manager, you really have to understand it's not transactional, it's not about numbers, it's about building relationships and everything is long term, like some sales people are all about catch and kill and move on to the next one, and I think that's probably where that's lacking as well with the relationship building.

Speaker 1: 20:01

Yeah, well, it's very much the analogy of know whether you like to date or like to be married, whether you like property management or sales.

Speaker 2: 20:08

Yeah, exactly and, like in property management, I feel like if you miss an opportunity, there's always that opportunity to work to get it back, whereas in sales, if you miss an opportunity, they've sold with another agent and then you've got to start that relationship all over again with the person who buys it. So, even though it kind of looks much the same, it is very, very different. But I think if someone's burnt out, I think outsourcing probably would be a good job, just until you decided what you wanted to do. But I definitely don't think sales is for everyone.

Speaker 1: 20:36

No, that's actually a good point with the. You know, if you miss out on a listing, you're right. You miss out on a listing're right. You miss out on a listing, that's it's gone. But in property management, if I miss out on a new management, I've just got a 12-month campaign that goes out to those investors and then by the time I've probably got it back again yeah, yeah, exactly like by the time they've had, you know, like two routine inspections, or tenants moved in and moved out like things haven't been done properly.

Speaker 2: 21:01

You have that opportunity again, especially if they've chosen cheaper fees yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 21:07

Which is happening in Perth at the moment, which is good, so, and it's just such a nice, easy management just to have when they call you up and say, listen, it's been 12 months, we're going to switch over, so it's nice and easy. Well, it was lovely catching up with you again. I do see you online lots and lots, but it's probably been about 12 months since I've spoken to you, so it's good to catch up and you're doing well in sales.

Speaker 1: 21:30

It's really good to see. Last question Will you ever go back into property management?

Speaker 2: 21:40

Maybe in a few years time, like I feel like I'd still love to do business development.

Speaker 1: 21:45

I think maybe if I ever went back into property management it would be like my own property management yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe um new, possibly new business in general as well, like you could do say like just new business, for yeah, that's sort of what you're doing if you're working for yourself anyway, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 22:03

yeah, yeah, like I feel like if I had I'm very much and you know this, I'm very much of a control freak and coming from a head of department role like I just I want everything to be a certain way and I think that if I was to ever go back and I didn't have complete control, it just wouldn't work for me.

Speaker 1: 22:17

Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Lovely chatting to you, good to see you and, um, thank you for sharing that. For any property managers that, um, yeah, are feeling that burnt out, feeling like, um, that they might like to try something different. Hopefully this has given you a little bit of insight in regards to the sales role and things to consider, um, if you are wanting to go down that road. So, thank you very much. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks, bye.