Stop being a transactional property manager and start building a network and value for your clients

We hope you enjoy this episode with Madeleine Roberts, whose remarkable ascension from weekend receptionist to property management leader at 18 exemplifies the potential within the real estate realm. 

You'll be whisked through Madeleine's personal milestones, including her strategic foray into homeownership and portfolio development at a strikingly young age. She talks about her passionate advocacy for property as a cornerstone of security, she also provide's invaluable perspectives to anyone navigating the intricate balance of personal and professional growth.

We talk about the unexpected twists of TikTok's role in shaping the business of property management, a topic that unravels the platform's power in fostering growth for industry professionals. Through our conversation, we uncover how TikTok's algorithm can significantly benefit sporadic yet engaging content, drawing in a diverse audience that defies age stereotypes. Madeleine and I also tackle the sensitive issue of online feedback, sharing stories and strategies for maintaining authenticity and accuracy in an environment where misinformation can easily spread.

We find that a lot of property managers are very transactional and this is the year we need to step it up and property managers need to start offering landlords more value and support with their investment journey, emphasizing the transformative effects of expert management on investment success. 

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:27

Today I am really excited to have someone that is not working actively in property management but is going to come with a little bit of a different perspective for property managers today, and that is Madeline Roberts from Madeline Roberts Property. Welcome.

Speaker 2: 0:45

Thank you. Thanks for having me, Ashley.

Speaker 1: 0:47

Now first podcast for you, so I'm really excited to share this experience with you and I hope there'll be many more. I'm sure there will be. But your profile says that you are a property advocate and a valuer in training and you hold 10 plus years of professional and personal property experience. So, if I know, you started and started quite young, and I got this from TikTok because you do have a fantastic following on TikTok. I think you've got around 8000 followers. So those that aren't following on TikTok head over to Madeline Roberts Property and check that out as well. But you started quite young. So talk us through your experience from a personal and a professional point of view.

Speaker 2: 1:32

Okay, sure. So I actually started as a weekend receptionist in a little boutique agency on the Mornington Peninsula, where I'm from, when I was 14. So that was my first job and I enjoyed it. I was like Saturday, sunday, whilst during the week I was at school. So that's where I started. And then, up until I was 18, I did a little bit of that. And then I did some sales assisting and then, when I turned 18, I went into a. I wanted to be in sales. I feel like you know, you think, oh, flashy real estate sales. That's where I wanted to be. I went for a few different jobs, but I was also very mindful that nobody was really going to give their house to sell to an 18 year old. So I wasn't delusional Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you know. So that anyway, I went for a few different interviews and I landed a property management assistant role and I thought, well, it's not really what I want to do, but I'm just going to do it. And then I started doing it.

Speaker 1: 2:29

I just stopped here. There that's like the classic. That's a classic intro for every single property manager that enters property management. Didn't really want to do it, but just fell into it.

Speaker 2: 2:41

Yeah, I think most of the best jobs that people have, they tend to just fall into it, falling to them. It's been my experience anyway. So I was a property management assistant and we had. It was a very small agency. It was in a place called Capplesound. It was previously Rosebud West. If you're in Victoria you'd know where it is. It's gone through gentrification but it used to be just like. It didn't used to have a very good name at all, but the senior property manager was leaving after six months and they were looking actively looking to find a senior property manager.

Speaker 2: 3:14

I was 18. I was an assistant property manager. I had six months experience, so I didn't really know I was just going along for the ride, but I was enjoying it. But I was like to my boss at the time can I do it? And he was like, okay, yeah, I don't see why not. So next minute they're training me up to manage the whole department. Because I was going to have an assistant, I had to do the trust accounting and that's a pretty big deal. So it was either like sink or swim and I love that mentality because that's when you're really going to thrive. And I did. I really enjoyed it. I was doing trust accounting, vcat preparation and presentation, and I was loving it. So that's kind of where I started professionally and from there I held senior roles at a couple of different agencies and then I was a rental department manager for a different company and then I did leave when I was 24, so I could from maternity leave.

Speaker 2: 4:17

So I had a few years off thereafter and, on a personal level, I purchased my first house when I was 18. Again, that was in Rosebud, and I just think I've always had this real pull towards property, because for me property equals security. That's what I think, so that's just how I feel. So it was really important for me to get my foot in the real estate market, more so than travelling. And you know everyone, when you're young you want to go to Europe and you want to sightsee. And don't get me wrong, I've done a little bit of travel, but very minimal, because for me getting my roots into the ground was so much more important. And then I was like I really I don't know, I just really aspired to be like some other people that I saw and these are actually like grown men at the time, you know. But they were. They had large property portfolios, and to me that just was so, so inspiring. So then, when I was 19, I did get another property as well, and I sat with that for a little bit. But yeah, during that time I also helped set up a rental department for a buyer's advocacy in St Kilda and this is when buyer's advocacy I hardly knew what it was that was. Yeah, it was. It was totally brand new thing back then, and yeah. So then I also had maternity leave for a few years with my first child. I felt it was important to stay at home with her, and I had this vision that I would take time off, maybe 12 months, and then jump straight back into the nine to five and then some of property management, which is just, it was just not going to happen. So, did that?

Speaker 2: 6:05

I did apply, when I was younger, to Deakin University to become a property valuer, and at the time, though, I ended up, I got in, but then, at the time, I pulled back from that because I had to pay my mortgages, so they were a really obviously like. I didn't have the freedom to study and work part time etc. Because I had to focus on those things. But then, over the past year, I got back into working for a property value. I've been really enjoying that. So I've been studying I'm nearly a sworn valuer.

Speaker 2: 6:39

And then I started this tick tock like last September and I was just starting it to see if people would end up like if I could drive valuations to the property valuation company I work for. But I gained so much traction so quickly like I was really surprised there was. In the beginning. It was like when I'm actively working on it, you know, as you would know, with tick tock you really need to put out the content and if you put it out, the algorithm favours you.

Speaker 2: 7:10

So when I started gaining traction, quite quickly people were reaching out to me and saying, hey, can you purchase property for me? And I was like I think I was talking to my mom one day and I was like, yeah, I've had a couple of people want me to purchase property for them, but I don't know. And she was like, why would you not? And I was like I don't know. And then it's led me to that and I'm loving it. I've actually probably one of the best jobs I've ever done. So I'm really, really loving the buyers out of things. I got my full license and, yeah, I'm loving that.

Speaker 1: 7:42

And just out of curiosity, is there a reason, like I love the word buys advocacy and I use the word investor advocacy as well, only because for me, I am not really interested in the first home buyers and the people buying their own home, it's more the investor side? Is there a reason why you use buys advocacy versus buys agent? Is it just a preference or?

Speaker 2: 8:06

Yeah, I'm actually not sure, because they do mean the same thing. I grew up like, as I said, I worked for a buyers advocate, so they were a buyers advocate, that's what they were called. But I've been seeing lately, on especially TikTok, a lot more of the word buyers agent being thrown around and I actually am unsure. I'm happy to go by both, but yeah, they are the same thing, yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:29

Okay, I wasn't sure if there's any specific reason for that. I'm just touch on TikTok for a little bit because it's such an interesting platform and I have been lucky that I've just had a few rant and posts that have gone really well and but it is hidden, miss and like and I don't love it. So I'm not consistent, so I need to be better at that, like yourself. But it's that it's really interesting that you said that. That's where you got a lot of interest from as well. I guess it's a reminder to property managers out there that it is everyone helps on about it. It is a very promising platform to start dabbling in.

Speaker 2: 9:11

It is. I think it's. It's absolutely crazy that the potential is out there. I mean, you have like 11,000 followers on there, don't you? Yeah, and you're saying you know, you know you're not, like, you know, really consistent on there. Imagine if you were consistent. I like it.

Speaker 2: 9:25

I think so the algorithm favours if you could post three to five times a day. So I try to at least post once a day. Sometimes it's three times a day, but I noticed when I do post more that I have more videos that go, you know, semi viral and there's just so much business that comes from it these days. And I think it's because it's a place of education. So, you know, it's these short form videos that just spit out information and education. So people go on there to learn about all different things. And obviously, if you're in somebody's feed that want to learn about what you're doing, it, you know it's pushing you out towards people that are looking in the property market, you know, and so they're picking it up, and then you're a familiar face for them, so of course they're going to reach out to you. I just think it's it's not a platform to sleep on, that's for sure Is it and the clients that you're getting from there.

Speaker 1: 10:13

Are you finding that they're a young generation or not necessarily?

Speaker 2: 10:17

No, not necessarily. Which is the interesting thing, and I do see the analytics and I can see that. You know, majority of my TikTok viewers are younger people and I suppose that's because mostly young people use the platform. But I've had more older people than younger people and when I say older I just mean I'm talking like more people, let's say 35, 40 plus, reach out to me to use my services. Then younger people.

Speaker 1: 11:22

So if they're looking to be educated and they're looking for services, yeah, and I think it's really important to also know because, like my kids are on TikTok, my kids wouldn't see on their For you page stuff like buyers advocacy, because they're not interested in that. They're only going to see their stuff. So I guess that's probably where a lot of people. There's a bit of a myth around it is that yeah, there's young people but yeah, like I said, my 15 year old wouldn't be seeing your stuff and it's only the more mature people that will see it. And I mean I think that there's two types of people on TikTok. I think there's a lot of people on TikTok. They just don't admit they are. So there's 35 to 40 year old people. They're scrolling, they're looking.

Speaker 2: 12:03

Yes, my husband's even one of them. He's like TikToks are ridiculous, but then every now and then I see him going through.

Speaker 1: 12:08

Take a funny story Like so and my partner he's on TikTok as well and I know because sometimes he goes. Oh, I saw that on TikTok and I'm like that's where I saw it. So I saw this thing on TikTok where it had a. They're making like strawberries with the melted Cadbury chocolate, but they melted the chocolate in the Cadbury bag in the microwave. So I thought great, easy, like I'll do that for the kids, but desert. The other night. And except the stupid video on TikTok miss the part where it says that you submerge the chocolate packet in a bowl of water boiling water and then you put it in the microwave. I miss that bit. They cut that bit out of editing that video. So I just put the whole block of chocolate in the microwave and then the microwave started sparking up because of the oh no, writing on the on the packet. So that was my little peed off moment from content creators who missed out a very crucial part of the video.

Speaker 2: 13:08

They did Multiple videos like first. You know what I mean. To get me sure they're across everything. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:14

And if I was a 15 year old I'd probably go and put some hate on that video to say you missed out that part. But I'm a chiller and I can do it. Yeah, had any hate on TikTok? I have. I have had a bit of hate on TikTok and I am I'm thick skinned. I honestly couldn't.

Speaker 2: 13:35

I look and I do laugh, but I just think who has the time? And I think, sorry, it must be really miserable. If you want to sit there and be naked, you know what I mean. But it's, it's out there especially, I find, because I'm in the property industry. Do you find that as well?

Speaker 1: 13:52

Yes, that's all it is about. And I I actually don't read the comments and I certainly don't comment on the comments either. So I think when you do get hate, that's the biggest thing. And if I like, there was once where I took a couple of days. I didn't look at anything and then I was just eating me alive and I said to my partner can you believe that they, you know, said this and this? How dumb are they. And I was having a rant he goes Ash, you promised that if you're going to start posting stuff, you're not going to be reading or looking at the negative comments. So I was like right, so I just now don't look at that.

Speaker 1: 14:26

The hardest thing for me was like with my kids. My kids at the very start they saw the negative stuff and they were like Mum, why are they saying that? And then they started, like my 14 year old, who's a mini me. She started piping in, you know, I know. And I was like no, no, no, just leave it. Honestly, it's, it's uneducated people like you know. Just it's, I'm OK, I'm fine. So that probably is. The hardest part is when your children say but I think my children have probably got me blocked now, or they don't even follow me, so they don't see anything.

Speaker 2: 14:59

I've got four and one, so I'm not yet at that hurdle, but that's that's a complex one to manage, for sure.

Speaker 1: 15:08

It is, yeah, but I don't really care for my stuff, so it's probably a bit easier. Anyway, they think I'm, you know, cringy. So and I always remind my 14 year old that I've got more followers than her on when she thinks that I'm cringy, really cool, exactly, exactly. The rest of Australia does, just not her little group. So, yeah, but it's the the. The positive thing is that negative comments does make your post perform really well. It does.

Speaker 2: 15:38

That's why I do know what I feel. I start getting the negative post. I actually think yes, yes, yes, yes, because the more what's the word like, the more I can't think of the word. But the more people like triggered by your post, the more like they are to comment. And when I say those comments come through, I'm like this one's going to do well, so I literally do not care. I'm always like I actually used to comment back to some of them asking questions like you think, question mark, because the angrier they are, the more passionate they are, so the more comments that keep coming and I'm here for it.

Speaker 1: 16:11

Absolutely, and I actually read something and please note to those listening I've never done this in my life, but I have heard of people that actually set up fake accounts so they can put hate on like so that you can put hate on your own post to start triggering that it's actually a thing.

Speaker 2: 16:30

So that makes me, I think people see the rude comments. They feel like like they're more behind some sort of screen, even more. So they're like, yeah, I'll jump on that too. So I could imagine that I see that.

Speaker 1: 16:42

Yeah, yeah, but I haven't got to that point yet of meeting too. But people just hate naturally. Well, they hate property managers. I should say me, they hate property managers generally. So what I? We've gone completely off topic with TikTok, tiktok's fun, but let's just go into some stuff that what I wanted to actually chat to you about today was sort of as that bias advocate and then as a property manager.

Speaker 1: 17:07

I think property managers naturally just go through the transaction side of managing a property. You know they do the rent, they do the inspections. They might necessarily have a holistic look at landlords and and the potential that landlords have got. And I guess I just wanted to open up the listeners minds a little bit in regards to this. And you know, ironically, today I've got my first investor Zoom setup where and I've got oh gosh, I think I've got about 40 booked in just for this month.

Speaker 1: 17:41

I've just done it on one portfolio as a trial and I've actually invited my landlords to have an annual check-in with me and so in that annual check-in number one, it's a really good opportunity for the landlord to bend any concerns they've got, you know, with the management, if there's has been anything that hasn't like, if the communication hasn't been up to scratch. If they have any just concerns about the amount of maintenance on the property, it allows me to also double check that. Have they got a depreciation schedule? How they're going with their smoke alarms checks, you know? Look at their maintenance over the years. Is it normal if they haven't spent any money on maintenance, should they be considering putting some money aside for some renovations?

Speaker 1: 18:29

The other thing that I want to check is that they're how they're going financially and actually physically saying how you're going financially, you know, with your payments and the rent return. Is the rent return you know enough at the moment or is there room for us to increase? But having that one-on-one conversation I've allocated half an hour, I think is don't get me wrong, it's time consuming. I'm just trialling it this month, but I think it's the only way to physically get a hold of the investor and have that conversation with them about how their journey is going and do they want to consider getting a second property? How can I help you get that? So?

Speaker 2: 19:12

it is a very holistic approach. I do. I have heard about, you know, annual call-ins and things like that, but really scheduling like a Zoom and to get into those nitty-gritty questions, I think that's excellent. At least that's very like I'd be so happy with that service personally if I was a landlord.

Speaker 1: 19:27

Yeah, and I think as well. It's about filling up that landlord's cup and that's the analogy that I've got. And if there happens to be little hiccups along the way with a landlord with something that the property manager's done, that's not a big drama, but because their landlord's cup's full, so much, these little tiny things that sometimes can happen won't be as obvious. But if you don't fill up your landlord's cup, and those little things happen all the time, once it gets to the bottom they're out.

Speaker 2: 19:59

Yeah, they'll take the cup elsewhere. So that's actually that's amazing. I think that's such a good idea I'll take, so I think I would encourage property managers to do that. But the only issue is in some agencies I feel as though they don't have the numbers, like from a director's point of view, they're not managing the numbers correctly with their property managers, so they wouldn't have the time. But that's the added benefit of managing numbers that are within your ability, so then you're able to do those check-ins Like I think that's beautiful.

Speaker 1: 20:28

Yeah, absolutely. And then I guess what I wanted to speak to you is do you feel that there is like, at what point could a property manager be crossing the line with that advice and discussion and get to a point where they've got to say, listen, I would love to put you in touch with a buyer's agent or a buyer's advocate who can maybe help you get to that point. So I know I'm sort of throwing you under the bus with that question, but what's your from your point of view? Where do you think that line can be crossed and when would be the best point to suggest that they go down that road of employing someone like yourself?

Speaker 2: 21:12

So what I would suggest is it's really OK to ask these questions and to find out where they want to be and what they want to do and what their goals are.

Speaker 2: 21:27

But I think it's OK to speak generally about what others are doing and other landlords in the area and how they're maximizing value.

Speaker 2: 21:34

But perhaps, if you want to give any advice, I think the best thing and perhaps all property managers really should do this, or BDMs is have a very strong network and list of referrals that you can pass on and, whether that's a buyer's advocate, a broker, a financial advisor, just have a strong list there and then it will also become a part of your package in a sense.

Speaker 2: 21:59

So when people, if I was a landlord and you gave me the contact details for a really good buyer's advocate or a really good mortgage broker and I had an excellent experience with them, I am going to relate that experience back to you because you've given me those details. So then when I think of you like that's a package, do you know what I'm saying? So I would feel really, really satisfied that not only am I having a really good experience with you as my property manager, but I've had an excellent experience with these other people that you've referred to me. So I think having a really strong list of like a network and referrals that you could pass along I think is really important.

Speaker 1: 22:38

I like that, and actually I'm just writing some notes down, because what some ideas for property managers could do is potentially like getting that network. That's probably absolutely the first thing to do. So we've got a buyer's advocate, we've got a finance broker, we've got a potentially a settlement agent, we've got a financial advisor, and then you could, as a property manager, you could potentially even create little Zoom interviews where you then do a little interview with someone like yourself and then you can send that to all your clients to say, hey, for those that are interested in building a portfolio, here is a little interview or here's a little chat that I had with Madeline, and it can be a bit of a soft intro to get them thinking that they might want to go down that road. And doing the same with, like, a finance broker could be a really good way of introducing that network to their clients and getting them familiar with the right people. So I think that's a fantastic idea is getting that network first.

Speaker 2: 23:43

And I just think like that's just adding so much value to your job as a property manager, because you've just like there's so much value surrounding that and what you're providing, that level of service you're providing your landlord. You're going so much further and beyond just the day to day basics, so I think that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 24:00

Yeah, and we talk a lot about value add in property management, and I guess this is just showcasing that the value add doesn't necessarily have to come from like us personally it just comes from our network. So utilizing that network is really easy thing for people to do, so I think that's a great tip. Now, so we've talked about how property managers can identify or help landlords wanting to build their portfolios. So that is either setting up those one-on-one chats or creating that network, creating those webinars and videos for clients and sending them off. The other thing that I wanted to chat with you about was what are some of the common challenges or misunderstandings that arise with landlords wanting to build a portfolio? Like are you seeing any landlords potentially jumping into early into the process or should they have an existing property that is super tidy, performing? You know what I mean no with no. Or are you seeing people like not care about headaches, just you know, maximizing their loanability Value?

Speaker 2: 25:15

yeah, I think there's definitely two different mindsets out there and I do think that, like the savvy investors, they do care about things being tidy before jumping onto another property, but I think most are number focused, if I'm honest. So it's really just how's this one performing and then going to the next one. But I do see I'm part of a investor chat group I think you would be too and I've seen people a lot of people that think that when they've got multiple properties or they wanna have more properties, that they should self manage, and that for me is like don't go there, that's just my. So that's the only thing that I think like.

Speaker 2: 26:04

That's like the biggest warning sign for me. Do you know what I mean? I would tell anyone any day of the week do not self manage. Even when I was a property manager, I think I tried for a little bit and I was just like I was a property manager and it's just just start to work. You'd so much safer being with an agent. So that's kind of the only thing for me that I think is the biggest warning.

Speaker 1: 26:22

I don't even self manage my own property. I've got this house, which is about an hour out of Perth, and, yes, I could do it myself. No, I'm gonna use the local agent up there. And do you know what I mean? They sent me their fees, which were a bit more expensive than I was expecting. I was like, Ash, don't be one of those landlords that ask for a discount. Just pay whatever they're charging and I pay their fee schedule. I pay for them to do it and, honestly, it's like a chef that doesn't want to cook when they get home.

Speaker 2: 26:50

I don't want to do my own property.

Speaker 2: 26:52

No very much involved and I think some landlords don't understand that. So the landlords that are really in number driven, they might just see that as an unnecessary number, but it would be very silly to do so. And I've seen other people they say, oh, I've been quoted like 7.7%. That feels a bit expensive. And other people have said are you looking for 6.6? Because it's a difference of a couple of coffees, like a week, and the service could be so much better quality. So just yeah, don't be that person. I completely understand the numbers going down. When it comes to having somebody professional look after it for you, it's just invaluable.

Speaker 1: 27:33

Yeah, it is. I saw a dumb comment the other day and I had to hold myself back from commenting on it. It was a guy that said, oh, something like since there's not that many good property managers in WA, I'm thinking of starting an agency, like it can't be that hard. And I'm like, oh my God, now we've got, we've had investors turned by as agents, and now we've got investors thinking that they can do a better job and now wanting to own a real estate agent. And I'm like you know, and in my mind I'm thinking things are good while they're good. Like you know, if you've got a good tenant, sure, the job looks really easy. But if you get a shit tenant, like oh my God, it's an absolute nightmare.

Speaker 1: 28:18

Like we're even just like we've got one that we're dealing with at the moment, where the poor tenant is in an apartment where it's actually quite dangerous, there's been some drug deals, she's been broken into, like she's in a really feeling very, very unsafe and her husband's a five-fold worker, and you know it's those crappy situations. And I had to call the owner last night and talk to her about it and I just said this and legally, you know, this is the situation. Morally, this is the situation. You know, like I said, I'm going to leave it with you. You know both options, I said, but morally, you know, I don't want something to happen to this lady, like I feel you know, and then releasing it's going to be really difficult, knowing the situation. And yeah, fortunately this landlord was just like, went down the moral road and let these tenants just vacate straight away without any penalty, which was great. But yeah, it's those tricky situations that come up that you've got to handle that these investors don't actually always see the behind the scene work that they do.

Speaker 2: 29:21

I think a lot of it's like will you lease the property and then that's it and they'll transfer your money every week or month and it's just not that there is so much more to it and so much you need to know, like actually, in talking about like morally. I saw somebody the other day and they were saying you know, their property manager wasn't being proactive. So this is another really important thing, like I think you need to be so happy with your property manager and know that they're proactive and that they're working for you. This one had let rent increases slide for quite a few years. Now it turns out the property was undervalued by $200 per week. That's huge.

Speaker 2: 29:54

But this tenant had been there for many years and was a really good tenant and he was like, what should I do? And I straight away said you've said yourself is a good tenant, I wouldn't be increasing more than $20 a week because just morally it's just you know, yes, it's a numbers game, but they're humans, you're dealing with humans and human beings, so like it goes back to that morally as well. But that's why if your property manager stays onto it too, it wouldn't get that far behind, you know.

Speaker 1: 30:19

That's right. They wouldn't have noticed that $20 increase over the last couple of years. And then and there was actually there was a tick talk about this. So there was a lady on our landlord who had increased the rent I can't remember how much, but let's just say she increased it $150. But she had also. She increased it $150 a week. However, she hadn't increased it for three years, or something like that, and during COVID, and she was like you know what? I actually have not increased it for three years. I could have been charging more, and now it's all caught up. So I'm not really the asshole here, because you know what I mean. They've actually saved money. I was like good point, good point, yeah, definitely yeah, so it's very interesting.

Speaker 1: 31:02

It's all about perception, though, isn't it? But one thing like are you seeing any red flags that might indicate a landlord is taking on too much risk where their portfolio? Is there a first situation where you might say, like to someone who wants to buy a? Listen, I don't know if this is for you. Like, I mean probably not, but has there been a situation?

Speaker 2: 31:25

Look, there hasn't been personally, and I think that's because before I do take on a client, you know they need to have approval and things like that. They deal with their broker. Some of them are financial advisor and I do feel as though that's out of my realm of being able to tell them what's right and what's wrong. But if they're saying to me I have had a client who was like we can afford this much. I think it was like one to 1.1, and then I know it was up to 1.2. I found a property that said they could maybe go 1.3. I did find something 1.3, but I said to them but don't push it, we can get you a nice property around that 1.1, 1.2.

Speaker 2: 32:08

It's a very healthy budget for where they were looking. Do you really need to press that extra 100,000, especially if it's your primary place of residence? This person had a child and another baby on the way. I did say to them I don't think it's a good idea you take on that much extra. They didn't have their heart set on the property either, but I just didn't want to take this one. This looks good. I know it's going to be a little bit tricky for you, but just take it, take it. I would never want to do that or encourage that.

Speaker 1: 32:35

No, and I guess that's where the fine line comes in, doesn't it? With regards to the professional and the personal side of things, you said something before which I love and I've used it before as well, but referring to what other people do. So, when these questions come up and if you're unsure of just overstepping a personal or a professional boundary, sometimes actually, instead of saying I would, I mean I wouldn't using the word I, but saying my other clients or my other investors probably would tread a little bit carefully with this situation, or my other investors or my other clients would probably be more inclined to do this and focus off a personal point and you mentioned that before which I was meant to.

Speaker 2: 33:22

Not you short, or I think you short. You know it's just look, I know this is what they did. So it's like that's one thing I did love, like when I was like a department manager. I love that management side of things and just to manage things gently and you know that's a part of it. You can't, I think you've got, you've got to be really soft and gentle when you are managing, because you can't say, if I was you, this is what I would do, because you just can't.

Speaker 1: 33:47

And that doesn't go down well. So then the the I guess, yeah, I guess my property manager there's going to be property managers listening to this that probably feel the same. But helping clients build a portfolio is definitely going down the road of getting not personally involved but sort of personally involved in a personal financial situation as well, and so drawing that line is very careful. You know you've got to be very careful in doing that and you know. But I actually think it's OK to say to a client how are you going with your mortgage repayments, are they, you know, do you need to speak to a finance broker to you know, potentially to potentially just get it assessed to make sure you're on the best rate? Or you know that type of thing and like that's what you talked about, that network of people to refer to.

Speaker 1: 34:40

I think that they are actually OK questions to have as well with clients. One of the red flags that I am I don't I think I would call it a red flag or I'd probably be careful, you know, talk, I probably wouldn't be bothered talking to an owner about getting another property is those that are real painful when it comes to maintenance. So I agree with you, I think a lot of people buying at the moment are numbers focused, so I think that they will just keep on buying to maximise their loan capacity or borrowing capacity. But gosh, they're a pain in the butt when it comes to maintenance.

Speaker 2: 35:18

Some of these Thalma, dreadful, and like the ones who are Mr Dort themselves or Mrs Dort themselves. So it's like electrical, I'll call over no, you can't do that. Like plumbing, I'll call over Like. And it's like pretty much a bit of sticky tape over something like and then you know what it's really challenging is. Obviously, as a property manager, it's your job to educate them, and so I like no, you need to do this. But then this there's this perception, especially on places like TikTok, where people are really putting down property managers for the way properties are presented, when you can only do so much, and no matter how much you push your landlord and you tell the landlord, there's some things that you actually can't do, and I'm just doubling into that. My mind just went elsewhere, but you're probably thinking of purple pinga.

Speaker 1: 36:06

Oh don't. Yes, you guys get hit more with him than what we do in WA. He leaves WA. He's done a few in, he's done a few in WA, but he's mainly.

Speaker 2: 36:26

Melbourne. Yeah, I just see those, and it's just a lot of it it's. I do see the point of view, though, because some of them I see, and I gasp because some are unlivable, some are crazy, but some you can't like. As a property manager, you can only push and do your best. So much you can't be like. You can contact the property, the landlord, as many times as possible, but you can't forget their house every day of the week saying fix it, fix it, fix it. It just doesn't work like that. No, no, exactly.

Speaker 1: 36:52

Exactly Wonderful, all right. Well, I mean, I think I might have to change this topic name to TikTok, do you? Oh my God, Sorry I haven't got to. I know I love it.

Speaker 1: 37:03

I love I love TikTok and I told you before that like I love the conversation based style podcast. So for me, I think those that are listening like the general chitchat, because it's just a friend in the car talking about real estate and TikTok, you know, as they're driving along. So so that is what people love. But just to recap, I think a reminder for property managers out there with their clients, as you know, go into this year, try not to be as transactional based and look at the value add which really can be done easily. So that can be done easily by having a quick zoom to check in with clients, even sometimes the process of just inviting clients to the zoom. So I think out of maybe 120 clients I might have had 40 people booked, but the fact I've invited is actually the really important part of the process as well, because that's seen as the value add so that when it comes to to fees and things like that, clients are seeing that extra value. So that's the first tip for today. The second tip is to create that network. So people like Madeline, I'm sure I'll speak on your behalf You'd probably be OK if someone was to call you up or message you and say, hey, can we do a little video for my clients, something like that. Ok, so that is a real easy thing to be able to do, and and do a video with you. Know, someone like Madeline do it with a finance broker, financial advisor, settlement agent, and throughout the year that's already four or five videos that you'll be able to start spotting through or emailing through to your clients as a value add.

Speaker 1: 38:53

Yes, you get some comfortable with that network, and then that also forms part of the education process as well. So, when it comes to clients not wanting to do maintenance or or having and you know thinking that they pay too much for fees or something like that, it's all about education and and making sure they know, instead of, like whinging about it, turn that into well, how can I teach my clients of the good value, how can I teach them of all this Like for me, I'm worth it, exactly, exactly. So we've got that responsibility to do that as well. So it has been lovely chatting with you and and I am sure we will speak again and I hope it wasn't too now that you've done your first, how was it? I loved it.

Speaker 2: 39:41

Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun. How would it?

Speaker 1: 39:44

would be. Everyone that does their first one always says, oh my God, can I do another one? Everyone was doing them. So but yeah, really good to chat with you Head over for those that that have TikTok head over to Madeline Robert's property and check out her content there as well to get some inspiration and some confidence when it comes to doing TikTok and rules and things like that. And if you do need some some, or if you do need to speak to a buyer's agent, if you need to speak to Madeline to get some support and how you can sort of work with your clients as well, I'm sure Madeline will be more than happy to chat to you all and to give you some guidelines and some help there.

Speaker 2: 40:25

Of course, Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you, have a great day, see you.